Turkey uses proportional representation, but requires parties to poll 10% of the national vote to have any seats in Parliament. This article says that the movement to lower the threshold to something lower is picking up popular support. The article says that one woman is walking the 280 miles from Istanbul to Ankara to gather publicity for the idea.
Ballot Access News
Edited By Richard Winger
Pre-election CANDIDATE rank order lists of other candidates.
Total Votes / Total Seats = Equal votes needed to win a seat.
Winner excess votes down.
Lowest loser votes up.
Both majority rule and minority representation.
I’d +1 Demo Rep’s response with one plus: rank candidates first, second or third. Allow for candidates to be equally ranked, maybe even suggest something like “you can give an equal preference to all candidates, but not more than half of the total number of candidates running”.
Imagine what would’ve happened in Italy if the 5-star movement had encouraged its voters to give a 2nd preference to any candidate it wish, for example.
Due to the near TOTAL dumbing down and down of the public for many decades ANY P.R. system has to be rather simple — to get past the SCOTUS robot party hacks.
Proportional Representation is hardly a panacea. It’s the system under which the National Socialists did well enough that von Hindenburg appointed Hitler Chancellor. It also gives too much power to party hierarchs.
Better to have candidates run as individuals, but with much smaller districts than most jurisdictions use.
Jeff D.
1. The SENILE Hindenberg APPOINTED Hitler.
2. The 1919 Germany Constitution [Weimar] had the FATAL section allowing suspension of the Germany Bill of Rights, etc. — due to the MORON Allies in 1919.
Used by Hitler and his gangsters in Feb 1933 to subvert the regime and become a tyrant.
3. REAL Democracy NOW via P.R.
NO suspension stuff for ANY reason – war, whatever.
Factions are almost unavoidable in any relatively free society. People with similar interests and ideas will tend to group together, and in politics that’s often how you get political parties. Since it’s unlikely most democratic nations will be able to just get rid of political parties anytime soon, we should be focusing on implementing a system that would ensure better representation. For us here in America, I agree with Demo Rep that Proportional Representation would be the best choice (were we to ever get that choice given how corrupt the “two party” Establishment is), based on what I’ve read about from countries like Iceland and, yes, modern day Germany.
And besides, the minor parties most likely to benefit from proportional representation are the Greens and the Libertarians, and neither are showing any indications whatsoever that they’re budding Nazis or something similar. Quite the opposite, in fact.
Yes, von Hindenburg appointed Hitler, and by re-iterating that fact, DR actually supports my case, by reminding us that proportional representation gave the National Socialists so many seats that von Hindenburg overcame his contempt for Hitler and made the appointment. QED: proportional representation is no panacea.
Better to leave party affiliations off the ballot entirely, and let voters judge the candidates individually.
Jeff D.
Factions – nothing new.
Roman Republic – patricians and plebians
Early gerrymander system – Roman voting by tribes in downtown Rome cattle pens.
Result – the tyrant Emperors for about 500 years.
See Federalist No. 10.
i.e. MORE or LESS control freak government stuff — for 6,000 plus years of recorded history.
—-
P.R. legislative bodies
Nonpartisan App.V. for elected executive officers and all judges
Ah, German history! Hitler was appointed because the mainstream Conservatives (Von Papen et al) persuaded Hindenburg to appoint him Chancellor in the belief that they would thus control him and ‘annex’ his vote. They were wrong!
As for PR being responsible. Just one thing – under First Past the Post Hitler would have won an absolute majority (or come VERY close) in the first 1932 election and wouldn’t have needed Von Papen’s incompetence to smooth his way. Under PR Hitler NEVER won an overall majority – even in the dubious conditions of 1933.
http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enabling_Act
German and English text.
Result – WW II and about 70 MILLION DEAD.
Regime change the very hard way – VE Day May 1945 — after the EVIL coward Hitler blew his brains out and took poison on 30 Apr 1945 while the Red Army was smashing Berlin to bits.
Great conversation here, very interesting comments so far. I think that Hitler’s rise wasn’t caused by bad election laws. And I don’t like at all the argument that he took power in a democracy. Germany held only a few elections after their WWI defeat without ever really establishing democratic institutions. Hitler took advantage of a crumbling failed attempt at democracy not in an actual democracy. The rightwing of post-WWI germany (military, monarhcists, conservatives) never bought into the democracy in any way.
Germany had parliamentary elections BEFORE the war. Recall the famous vote in 1914 in which the Social Democrats repudiated socialist internationalism and voted to fund the war.
To see why AH came to power you have to examine the history of the Versailles treaty and France’s determination to keep Germany in semi-colonial status. Add the economic crisis of the Great Depression.