Comments

Law Professor Garrett Epps Says Electoral College Was Flawed from the Beginning — 57 Comments

  1. The author is wrong.

    First of all, it’s MEANT to be undemocratic. We were supposed to be a republic and a confederation of states, not a democracy, and not the centralized system we have today.

    It was absolutely NO to protect slavery. This is leftist myth-making. Some of them know better.

    I also question how this so-called historian determines the “worst presidents in American history.” They weren’t far left enough to suit him and his narrow little ideology?

    He supports the disastrous, unconstitutional National Popular Vote Compact (a banned interstate compact), which would mean only California and New York would matter. They would get to select the president for the rest of the country. Do we want that? I don’t. But it would serve his side of the aisle, so he’s all for that disaster.

    And how would electors voting for the person they think best, which seven (7) electors did in 2016, harm the system? it’s what the Founders intended. I’ll take their wisdom over this author’s ideological meanderings.

  2. Right on, Tim! The STATES elect the President and Vice President. The people elect the House of Representatives and after the 17th amendment the Senate as well. We were never established as a democracy but rather a constitutional republic. Why mess with a system that works?

  3. Some of those *works* of the ANTI-Democracy minority rule USA/State gerrymander hacks —

    1. Genocide of the 1607-1890 American Indian tribes

    2. Slavery 1607-1865

    3. Oppression of various minority groups from time to time – esp ex-black slaves, ex-Irish, ex-Italians,
    ex-eastern Europeans, even USA Citizens (ex-Japanese) in WW II concentration camps

    4. Non-stop inflation since 1933 – destroying the paper assets of the middle and lower econ classes

    5. Now INSANE accumulated govt debts since 1929 – aka ALL larger govts in USA are de facto bankrupt — nearing $$$ 40 TRILLION in debts — NOT counting coming future added debts.

    6. NEW DARK AGE social-econ destruction of many/most older larger cities and now older suburbs – urban sprawl – pollution.

    Just swell – if one wants Civil WAR II and/or World WAR III.
    —
    2019-2020 USA GOVT MINORITY RULE GERRYMANDER MATH, 7 MAY 2019 V2
    GERRYMANDER LOWLITES MINI SUMMARY —
    A. 30.3 PERCENT OF THE VOTERS ELECTED 218 D USA REPS OF 435 TOTAL IN 2018.

    B. 19.2 PERCENT OF THE VOTERS ELECTED 50 R USA SENATORS OF 100 TOTAL IN 2014-2018.

    C. 25.7 PERCENT OF THE VOTERS ELECTED R PREZ TRUMP IN 2016 – 270 of 538 ECV – 28 States and ME CD2

    ALL States legislatures like *A* — bit worse in top 2 primary States due to nonvotes if NOT 1 D and 1 R in gerrymander districts.
    —
    PR and AppV and TOTSOP

  4. The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, self-appointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny.

    Federalist 47, Madison
    —

    USA Prez in USA Const –
    legis veto power, exec power, judic pardon power = TYRANT officer

    — Due to the EVIL top secret CONSPIRACY in 1787 — esp by the small and slave State oligarchs.

    1787 Democracy folks put up with the ROT to lessen chances for Europe tyrants to get military bases in such rotted small/slave States.

    Same LEJ ROT in most State Guvs = more TYRANTS.

    Too many polisci MORONS to count — esp. due to the brainwashing super-ROT in govt/civics classes in rotted publik skooools — getting $$$ from the rotted legis oligarchs – often via USA Prez tyrants and State Guv tyrants.

    STOP the tyrants – END the ROT

    PR and AppV and TOTSOP

  6. SAVE DEMOCRACY 11 AUG 2019

    THE ANTI-DEMOCRACY MINORITY RULE GERRYMANDER CRISIS IN THE USA IS NOW.

    SAMPLE GERRYMANDER – 5 DISTRICTS

    DT A B TOT

    1 56 44 100
    2 55 45 100
    3 54 46 100
    4 35 65 100
    5 30 70 100

    – 230 270 500 TOT
    – 46.0 54.0 100.0 PCT

    – 165 — 500 3 A WIN
    – 33.0 — 100.0 PCT

    With larger systems –

    1/2 or less [plurality] votes x 1/2 [bare majority] rigged packed / cracked gerrymander districts = 1/4 or less CONTROL
    = ANTI-Democracy MINORITY RULE O-L-I-G-A-R-C-H-Y.

    UNEQUAL votes for winners in districts.

    UNEQUAL total votes in districts.

    Much, much, much worse extremist special interest gang nominations in primaries
    — about 5-15 percent REAL minority rule.
    – With ANTI-Democracy TYRANT MONARCHS – STALINS / HITLERS.

  7. Both Tim and Casual Observer were spot on! James Madison warned us in “Federalist #10” about democracies.

  8. LOVE THOSE KILLER-ENSLAVER MONARCHY/OLIGARCHY REGIMES SINCE 1787-

    NAPOLEON
    BISMARCK
    KAISER BILL
    LENIN
    MUSSOLINI
    HIROHITO
    STALIN
    HITLER
    MAO
    CASTRO
    HO CHI MINH
    SADDAM
    — ALL THE ABOVE KILLERS HAD OLIGARCH HELP.

    WORLD HISTORY —

    REAL DEMOCRACY FOLKS VERSUS KILLER-ENSLAVER MONARCHS/OLIGARCHS.

    Total R-O-T in USA public skooools about the REAL differences —

    It shows in the brain rot postings of the many brainwashed polisci MORONS on this list.

  10. Ahh, the old “we’re a republic” wingnut line. Give it a rest, Tim, even if part of your remaining comment is half true.

  11. Actually, by the time we get to 1800 in his recollection, Epps is pulling punches, implicitly repeating the old myth that the Founders hoped to avoid parties and “faction.”

    Fact is, they knew well about Whigs and Tories, or King’s Party and Country Party, back in Merrie Olde, and parallel divisions within their own colonies. They were self delusional.

  14. In fact he is right on the money, while the comments above are largely errant nonsense and complete gobbledygook as well as various shades in between along the spectrum between the two.

  16. Such a cynical article by Garrett Epps who teaches creative writing to law students.

    Epps claims he loves the ‘Federalist’ because he claims “it is like a particularly well-done brochure for a Las Vegas timeshare, written to sell more than inform.”

    Should we believe anything he writes in the rest of his column? No more than if we bought the timeshare, only the to find there not only is no ocean, but the property is actually in Pahrump.

  17. Also – brainwashed polisci MORONS love the 1860 EC election producing Prez Lincoln – 39.8 PCT

    AND about 750,000-1,000,000 DEAD in 1861-1866 [ major starvation in 1865-1866 in wrecked ex-CSA States ] and multi-tens of thousands mentally and physically injured for life – esp no eyes, hands, etc.

    — the REAL cost to get the 13-14-15 Amdts.

    How many EC CRISIS *elections* so far ??? — since 1796 — esp. minority rule winners in popular votes

    Recent – 1992 Clinton 43.0 PCT, 2000 Bush II 47.9 PCT, 2016 Trump 46.1 PCT — means ZERO to math MORONS.

    Will 2020 produce an *open* Civil WAR II via the ANTI-Democracy EC ???
    —
    PR and AppV and TOTSOP

  18. I agree with Tim and Casual Observer about the Electoral College. I think we should repeal the 17th Amendment. And as usual every post from Demo Reo is incomprehensible gobbledygook.

  19. Sorry for the typo “Demo Rep” instead of Demo Reo.

    By the way why does Demo Rep, Casual Observer, or anyone else hide behind a pseudonym? I think everyone should state their real mame. What are they afraid of? No one is going to track them down or do them any harm. If that was a real thing to worry about it would have already happened to those of us who do use our real names. There is nothing to be afraid of.

  20. No matter how many times I read my posts before hand I never seem to catch all the typos. I apologize.

    “real name” not real mame.

  21. I’m not sure that “disaster” is a good word to describe a system that has endured despite several controversies for nearly a quarter of a millenium with the last alteration being over 200 years ago. Epps’ revelation that the Constitution was not handed down on Mount Sinai is not news to anyone who didn’t sleep through the numerous compromises incorporated in the document during junior high history class. Nevertheless, if the Electoral College must go because it was put in place due to being enacted in the first place due to advocacy I have to wonder what methods Prof. Epps does consider acceptable to enact public policy. Is he against any use of public opinion to steer government due to the public’s nature of being susceptible to being sold on ideas by the likes of an Alexander Hamilton?

  22. The author is in error. IMO, Hamilton really believed what he was saying. He imagined the Presidency as a sort of elective monarchy. He wanted that person chosen by an elite body, which role he had hoped that the electors would play.

  23. To respond to a comment above, as I read the Epps article, I think he was advocating for a popular vote brought about by the NPV compact, rather than a constitutional amendment. However, there is an internal inconsistency in his article — he also wrote about the recent 10th circuit decision that confirmed that electors are, in effect, free agents, and stated that he thought the 10th circuit got it right. If the 10th circuit is right, then the NPV can’t work, because, while it would affect how electors are appointed, it would not be binding on them in terms of how they cast their votes. He doesn’t make this connection, and therefore, undercuts his point.

    I am of the opinion that, while the Electoral College has its flaws, scrapping it in favor of a national popular vote will trade one problem for another problem. I think the real problem with the Electoral College is that the plurality winner gets all the states’ electoral votes. That adds a real skew to the results. My reform would be to keep the Electoral College, have electors elected by voters of a state, and provide that if no candidate gets an outright majority of the popular vote within a state, electors are allocated proportionately among the candidates with vote totals high enough to justify it. Consider, for example, two states — Virginia and Pennsylvania. Hillary got only 49% of the vote in Virginia. That means a majority of Virginians didn’t want her. Yet she got all the state’s electoral votes. Similarly, Trump received only 48% of the vote in Pennsylvania. That means a majority of Pennsylvanians didn’t want him. Yet, he got all the state’s electoral votes. A system like the one I advocate, would, in my view fix one flaw of the current system in that campaigns are limited to only so-called swing states. Looking at the results from 2016, Hillary might have decided to campaign more in Texas and Georgia, where Trump barely got over 50%. She wouldn’t need to win; just hold him below 50%. Trump would have acted similarly in Washington and Oregon, where Hillary barely cleared 50%. The upside is that campaigning would be done in more states, which, I would think, would be a good thing.

    The other reform I would add to this is to repeal the Reapportionment Act of 1929 that caps the size of the House o Representatives at 435. This would increase the size of the Electoral College, and make it more likely that the EC winner is the same as the popular vote winner.

  24. ” However, there is an internal inconsistency in his article — he also wrote about the recent 10th circuit decision that confirmed that electors are, in effect, free agents, and stated that he thought the 10th circuit got it right. If the 10th circuit is right, then the NPV can’t work, because, while it would affect how electors are appointed, it would not be binding on them in terms of how they cast their votes. He doesn’t make this connection, and therefore, undercuts his point. ”

    No, he addresses that at the end and says it’s a lesser risk than the current system.

    ” I think the real problem with the Electoral College is that the plurality winner gets all the states’ electoral votes. ”

    That’s up to the states, not the federal government. In Maine and Nebraska the plurality winner already doesn’t. States are free to choose any method they wish for picking electors including state popular vote winner, national popular vote winner, district winner, proportional allocation, jury duty style random lottery, public auction, election by the legislature – it’s entirely up to state legislators, governors, courts and in states which have them citizen initiatives to decide how any given state will allocate its electors.

  25. ”

    The other reform I would add to this is to repeal the Reapportionment Act of 1929 that caps the size of the House o Representatives at 435. This would increase the size of the Electoral College, and make it more likely that the EC winner is the same as the popular vote winner.”

    Agreed. The idea was that a congressperson would serve about 30,000 constituents. With today’s communication and transportation technology there is no reason that can’t work now. Congress does not have to all meet in one room; speeches can be made on multiple stages at once, watched live or recorded, written arguments shared over email or messenger, and so on. There could be multiple teleconferenced town halls, eliminating most of the travel that comes with the job. Not only would members of congress be much more accessible due to representing a lot fewer voters but they would spend a lot more of their time in the communities they represent rather than hobnobbing with each other, large national donors and lobbyists inside the DC beltway.

  26. THe first battle in supporting the Electoral College needs to be a return to placing the names of the actual Presidential Electors back on the ballots. Many states have election laws specifically barring that which is absolutely Bizarro World.

  27. I totally agree with Ed Ng on the issue of expanding the House of Representatives. In this technological era it makes sense to meet electronically which means the House can just keep expanding with the increase in population. One Representative for every 30 to 50,000 Americans will provide far better access for citizens and at the same time make it incredibly difficult for special interests to “own” enough Representatives to control government.

  28. ALL States and a zillion local govts manage to survive by having ALL the electors vote for top exec and judic officers.

    Too many STONE AGE PROVINCIAL FLAT EARTH math morons to count.

    1787 States did not have a uniform definition of elector for obvious reasons- racism, sexism, ageism wealthism, etc.

    How many of the USA 12 to 27 Amdts are election related ???
    —
    SCOTUS has perverted the General Welfare and Inter-State Commerce cls since 1870s — such that the States are now de facto DEAD — thus the tyrant monarch Prezs — esp with their rotted power to appoint SCOTUS HACKS – esp since Lincoln in 1861.
    —
    PR AND APPV AND TOTSOP

  29. IMO, three reforms would improve federal elections:

    1. Increase the size of the House of Representative to 1 rep for the least populous state (currently Wyoming), and 1 rep for every multiple of that state for every other state. This would increase the size of the House by about 130-150 members, a manageable number that maintains minimal proportionality in the House, and increases the proportionality of the Electoral College.
    2. Divide the larger states into smaller states. IMO, as a rule of thumb, states that contain more than 5% of the total population should be encouraged to split. Using this rule, California and Texas would become 3 states each, and New York and Florida would become 2. This would increase the Senatorial electors as well.
    3. Encourage states, particularly swing states, to adopt ranked choice voting for Presidential electors, as Maine has just done. This would increase the chance that a President would be elected with a MAJORITY (not a mere plurality) of both the popular and electoral vote.

    None of these changes would require a constitutional amendment or an interstate “compact”

  30. This country was never meant to be a pure democracy. Pure democracy leads to mob rule, also known as tyranny of the majority.

    I would like to see the following restrictions placed on who can vote:

    1) All government employees (including ones who are retired and receiving a pension), government contractors, and welfare recipients (including the boards of corporations receiving corporate welfare), are barred from voting, and are also barred from donating to political campaigns.

    2) A test on the US Constitution (and maybe the Declaration of Independence as well) should be given prior to each election, and only people who pass this test are allowed to vote.

    If these two reforms were in place, it would eliminate grifters (as in people looking to cash in from government), as well as stupid and/or ignorant people from voting.

  31. Andy —

    Sorry-
    Jacksonian Democracy in 1820s — END of elite oligarchs being electors-voters.

    See Door’s War in little RI in early 1840s – final holdout of olde time oligarchs — definition of elector and severe gerrymander – ended with 1844 RI Const.

    STATISM is due to the various minority rule gerrymander systems —

    with those ***grifters*** often controlling who gets nominated- esp RED Donkeys.
    —
    PR and Appv and TOTSOP

  33. But why stop there? Those who own stock in or work for corporate welfare receiving corporations would be barred from voting as well, and of course those in their supply chain, those who buy their products or use their services, and the relatives of all such people. Anyone who is employed in efforts to change government policy would be barred as well, naturally, along with all dependents, spouses, cohabitators, and so on. Anyone within six degrees of separation of such persons should be barred from voting, just to make sure no undue influence enters the elections.

    An historical literacy test administered by the government would also be an excellent idea. I can’t imagine what could possibly go wrong with something like that.

  34. I prefer Tom P and Ed Ng’s idea of expanding the House. That takes care of just about everything.

  35. Andy + EN

    What causes Revolutions ??? — see 1776 DOI.

    See the TOTAL ROT in France in July 1940 after Hitler defeated France in May-June 1940.

    HACK MORONS in the French Parliament abolished the 3rd Republic (1875-1940) and let Ex-Gen Petain in Vichy regime have ALL legislative and executive powers — worse tyranny than the Hitler and Stalin regimes.

    Regime destroyed via Allies- June 1944-May 1945 — with later purges, esp of Petain [Treason – life in prison] and his stooge Laval [Treason – shot dead].

    Rotted 4th Republic 1946-1958
    Rotted 5th Republic 1958-now
    —
    PR and AppV and TOTSOP

  36. I would consider going beyond those who are on the boards of directors at corporations who receive corporate welfare from voting or donating to political campaigns, to include people who work for such corporations, or own stock in them. The reason I limited it to the boards of directors is because they are the ones who make the decisions. I am not necessarily opposed to going further than that, but I am not sure of how necessary it would be.

    As for literacy tests for voting, if one has to pass a test on the Constitution in order to vote, this implies that one should be able to do it.

    If we are to have government elections, grifters, idiots, and the ignorant should be barred from the process.

    I would also like to see a ban on foreign lobbyists, as well as more difficult standards put in place for who can become an American citizens. The US Supreme Court has already ruled that people who obtain American citizenship by fraud, or mistake, can be stripped of it, I would like to see everyone who received American citizenship via misinterpretation of Birthright Citizenship, as in Anyone born on US soil whose parents were not citizens, stripped of American citizenship, which would also remove them from the voter rolls, and/or prevent them from becoming voters.

  38. “Andy- How do you feel about member of Congress who are dual citizens?”

    They should all be kicked out of office. They never should have been allowed to run for office if they were dual citizens.

    There ought to be a prohibition against dual citizens holding political office.

  39. “if one has to pass a test on the Constitution in order to vote, this implies that one should be able to do it.”

    I meant that one should be able to read the Constitution. If they are vision impaired, they could take the Constitution test in braille, or they could take an oral version of the test.

  40. Considering that much of the current American electorate either lives off the state, in part, or in full, and/or is completely ignorant of this country’s founding documents, the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution, and are also ignorant about how their state and local government is supposed to work, as well as the issues of the day, it is no wonder that election results are generally bad. Change the voter base by disallowing grifters and the ignorant get shut out of the process, and elections would have much better outcomes.

    If people who get shut out want to take part in the political process, fine, stop being a grifter and stop being ignorant, and then you get to take part in the political process. Until then, stop whining.

  41. Andy-There are over 20 members of Congress that are dual citizens. Baldwin wrote a column about it a few months ago. I personally don’t see how a public servant can serve two masters. I think the voters have the right to know.

  42. Andy wrote-

    This country was never meant to be a pure democracy. Pure democracy leads to mob rule, also known as tyranny of the majority.
    —
    How about the ACTUAL / REAL indirect ANTI-DEMOCRACY MINORITY RULE SINCE 1607 IN STATES AND LATER USA REGIMES — DUE TO ANTI-DEMOCRACY MINORITY RULE gerrymanders — aka ACTUAL / REAL indirect tyranny of the M-I-N-O-R-I-T-Y [IE OLIGARCHS] ???

    99+ PCT OF THE LAWS DUE TO OLIGARCHS.
    —
    PR IN ALL LEGISLATIVE BODIES.

  45. Grifter math —

    GDP PCTS — ALL govts in USA
    YEAR IN OUT DEFICIT

    1929 10.1 10.9 -0.8

    2018 26.9 36.3 -9.4

    IE about 30-32 pct of folks get ALL of their NET income AFTER taxes from govts

    >>> CONTROL primary nominations
    —
    PEACETIME OUT PEAK in 2010 was 41.4 PCT

    RED Donkey communists want instant 50-70 pct CONTROL on road to 100 pct.
    —
    1929-2018 deficits $$$ -37.9 TRILLION — will be over $$$ -40.0 TRILLION by Nov 2020.
    TOTAL CRISIS possible any second.

    Data— BEA, NIPA Tables 1.1.5, 5.1

  46. NOOO such thing as *dual* citizenships

    What happens in case of WAR between the nations ??? —
    person is cut in half and reports for military duty ???

    1787 USA Const Art III, Sec 2.

  47. Do you have any idea how much it would cost to have a Congressman for every 30,000 people? Cut their benefits and pay, and then we’ll talk.

  48. Close to 330,000,000 USA pop / 30,000 = a mere 11,000 —

    take over DC Stadium ???

    100 Staffers per Rep = 110,000

    take over half of DC ???
    —
    OR just

    PR

  49. me, I am not saying the idea of 1 Congressman for every 30,000 people is good or bad, but in terms of how much it would cost, how about lowering their pay and benefits package?

  50. ” I am not necessarily opposed to going further than that, but I am not sure of how necessary it would be.”

    Let’s go all the way.

    ” I am not sure of how necessary it would be. ”

    Better safe than sorry, I say.

    “As for literacy tests for voting, if one has to pass a test on the Constitution in order to vote, this implies that one should be able to do it. ”

    It’s not about who takes the test, it’s about who determines the score. But don’t let history get in the way.

    “There ought to be a prohibition against dual citizens holding political office.”

    Another half measure. There should be a prohibition against any kind of citizens holding political office, not just dual citizens.

    “Anyone born on US soil whose parents were not citizens, stripped of American citizenship,”

    Extend that back about 40 generations, and then you start approaching a real solution.

    “Do you have any idea how much it would cost to have a Congressman for every 30,000 people? Cut their benefits and pay, and then we’ll talk.”

    Even if they were paid what they get now it’s a mosquito bite on an elephant’s ass of government spending. But since we are eliminating their travel costs we may as well eliminate all or most of their pay as well. Take the same amount of money 435 of them get now and divide it by 11,000. Sort of like the NH legislators who get $100 a year each. They have to maintain actual jobs outside of politics, so have less time for mischief.

    “A pop / 30,000 = a mere 11,000 —

    take over DC Stadium ???”

    Addressed above. There’s simply no reason for them to travel to DC much if at all anymore.

    “100 Staffers per Rep ”

    Why? They can cut down the amount of “work” they do to what they can handle personally. No staff required.

  51. “It’s not about who takes the test, it’s about who determines the score. But don’t let history get in the way.”

    If such a requirement to test people on their knowledge of the Declaration of Independence and US Constitution before they could vote existed, the law should be written in a manner that the only questions asked should be on exactly what these documents say. If one is concerned that the people grading the tests would cheat, a computer could grade the tests, and it could reveal the correct answer after the test taker answers it.

    The bottom line here, is that there are lots of ignorant people voting, and if these people are too lazy, or too stupid, to inform themselves, these people should not be voting.

  52. 14th Amendment, Section 2 provides for sanctions if the right to vote for presidential electors is abridged. A state does not have to appoint electors by popular election, but if it does, and the right of male citizens over 21 to vote for electors is abridged, then representation in the house, along with the number of electors is reduced. By the 19th and 26th amendments, the right to vote of female citizens and citizens between 18 and 21, must be the same as for male citizens over 21.

    The right to vote for an elector, must include the right not to vote for certain individuals. This can not be done unless the names of elector candidates are placed on the ballot.

    At the time of the 14th Amendment there were no government-printed ballots. It would be considered absurd not to have a voter print the names of electors he favored. Even if a party printed ballot provided a list of electors, a voter could edit that list.

  53. Epps neglects to mention that after the 1800 election, that Hamilton favored popular election of electors from electoral districts (single-member) in which the electors would more clearly seen as officers rather than robots.

  54. 14-2

    Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. [[[ But when the right to vote at *** any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States ***]], Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, [[[ is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime ]]], the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

    *** any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States *** =
    ANY ***REQUIRED*** ELECTION ????????

    other specified officers —-

    Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof.

    Representatives in Congress — ***ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED***

    LOWER HOUSE OF EACH LEGISLATURE — ***ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED***

    the Executive and Judicial officers of a State AND UPPER HOUSE OF EACH LEGISLATURE — ONLY **REQUIRED** WHEN SPECIFIED IN STATE CONST OR LAWS

    ONE MORE CASE FOR SCOTUS.

    —
    ABOLISH THE EC SUPER TIMEBOMB MESS-
    DIRECT VOTING FOR PREZ/VP BY ALL THE HUMAN ELECTOR-VOTERS
    — USA CITIZENS, 18 + YEARS OLDE
    — NONPARTISAN APPV — PENDING CONDORCET.

    THE SUN WILL CONTINUE TO RISE AND SET.

  55. @ Jim Riley: Which proves my earlier point that Hamilton truly imagined the Electoral College to be independent in its choices.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.