On August 15, the American Independent Party, which exists only in California, held its state convention. It nominated presidential electors pledged to Rocky De La Fuente for president, and Kanye West for vice-president. The meeting was electronic with approximately 20 participants. The vote was unanimous, except for one abstention.
There is no law in California requiring general election presidential and vice-presidential candidates to assent to their nomination by a ballot-qualified party. The party had reached out to Kanye West in the past week, but could not reach him. De La Fuente, of course, had sought the party’s nomination and had placed second in the party’s March 2020 presidential primary.
What a joke, if they had nominated Phil Collins they would have gotten 10 times the votes they’ll get with De La Fuente at the top of the ticket.
What is the purpose of them even holding a primary and then not placing the winner on the ballot. Was the primary result figured into ANY part of their nomination procedure? Perhaps worth some points in some sort of formula? Why would any future candidate even bother to run (spend money) in any future AIP primary?
Generally, minor party presidential primaries in the United States are a waste of taxpayer money, and are almost never binding. The American Independent Party hasn’t nominated a presidential candidate who had won its presidential primary since 2004, when Michael Peroutka was the only name on the primary ballot and he became the AIP nominee. Back then the AIP was the California affiliate of the Constitution Party.
NOOOOO caucuses, primaries and conventions.
EQUAL nom pets by ALL candidates.
PR and APPV
TOTSOP
the AIP is an empty party…people think they are registering as an independent, if they really had as many members (active) as they show, they would be much more visible….20 people voted?? its a joke…organize the people and run candidates if they are really a party…its just the same handful of people every year that runs their party
Kanye West for vice-president?? What an absolute joke.
I guess I’m the only on this message board (so far) that supports this combination team. I thought that Jeff Becker would as well. Oh well…Yes Kanye West is running for President not Vice President. But let’s not forget that a third party candidate will not win the Presidential election of 2020. Third parties could make an impact as has been the case in previous elections. Would be interesting to see how many votes this combo team would get and compare it to previous presidential cycles where AIP presidential candidates ran. Obviously this team will not win California. It should be the Democrats once again but they could still end up with a decent score.
@Charles – I based my comment on what the Idaho CP did. They held true to their principles, respected the wishes of their in-state voters, and placed the winner of their primary on their ballot – regardless of how many people in their leadership did not really like that candidate, Mr. Blankenship. But, the name of the actual candidate does not really matter since it is the Presidential Electors for that candidate who, if their placeholder wins for them, will actually cast presidential ballots.
Well that’s… interesting.
It looks now Kanye West will be running against Harris in California. Will there be a VPOTUS debate in California?
Also will Roque De La Fuente be able to debate Biden if he can get him out of his basement and the bats of of the bell free.
And so West’s journey is complete, from opposing George Bush to supporting George Wallace. (The California AIP is the last remnant of the AIP/ “Wallace Parties” established to support his 1968 run for President.)
Mark, De la Fuente and West won’t be on enough ballots to possibly win for President or VP, and thus won’t be debating anyone but the voices in their heads.
Sorry,
First, I did type Belfry. However the iPhone got it down
as bell free and not belfry.
Second it will be the US Senate that may decide between Pence, Harris, and West for VPOTIS. So Brian S. Jenkins there will be grounds for a debate between West and Harris.
California will have 55 electoral votes, more than any other state.
West isn’t a candidate for VP anywhere but California. The Senate chooses from between the top two candidates for VP if no candidate has a majority of electoral votes, so West won’t qualify because you would need at least 135 electoral votes to finish second in a race with no majority winner. (Of course, Biden leads the Presidential contest by 36 percent in the most recent California poll, so it’s not like he’ll get any electoral votes anyway.)
And the Commission on Presidential Debates is not going to extend an invitation to De la Fuente or West because, again, neither can possibly win the White House even if they won every state where they will be on the ballot.
There are 3 possible outcomes in CA for Presidential Tickets: 1. Biden-Harris wins 2. Trump-Pence wins. 3. Some other ticket wins, such as Guerra-West. Rocky’s full name is “Roque “Rocky” De La Fuente Guerra.” Here’s our announcement:
The American Independent Party today nominated Roque “Rocky” De La Fuente Guerra for President and Kanye West for VP in their Presidential Nominating Convention held August 15, 2020, in Sacramento CA (and online). #tcot #ccot #teaparty #ImWithYe http://aipca.org/manifesto.html
Richard you wrote “There is no law in California requiring general election presidential and vice-presidential candidates to assent to their nomination by a ballot-qualified party.” I take that as gospel. Mark Seidenberg feared that although no candidate can interfere with our nomination, that they might not consent to appear on the ballot.
As THE expert on Ballot Access, is such consent required?
Markham, I’ll bet you the contents of Fort Knox against a wooden nickel that the outcome won’t be 2 or 3.
I’m the Chairman of the State Central Committee for the AIP until September 3, 2020, but as its Executive Chairman and Chairman of our proforma national party “The American Independent Party of These United States,” I will exert myself to see debates between our candidates & their competitors, or if they will not come out to play, with their surrogates, chosen by the candidate or, failing that, BY US!
Brian, you said, “Markham, I’ll bet you the contents of Fort Knox against a wooden nickel that the outcome won’t be 2 or 3.” It’s a long shot I’ll grant you, but our ticket may draw enough votes that would otherwise go to Biden-Harris to give Trump-Pence a plurality.
Think about it for a second, who would votes for our ticket? Well, there will be those vote for it based on their love and/or admiration for Rocky or Ye. There may well be Never Trumpers from the ranks of Republicans who will not vote for Trump, but are galled by thought of voting for loathsome Progressives/Socialists like Biden-Harris. And there will be those who will vote for Rocky because of his Hispanic Name & roots. In fact our ticket may turn out to be the most popular protest vote receptacle ever.
One more 0.1 or less pct duo ???
Money talks.
Darcy Richardson responds https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2020/08/aip-nominates-rocky-de-la-fuente-kanye-west-ticket-darcy-richardson-responds/
A guy who’s run failed Senate campaigns in nine states and an insane former rapper. Markham, you’re suffering from delusions of mediocrity with these guys. As for the “ranks for Republicans who will not vote for Trump,” you’re in California. What Republicans?
Looks like some right-wing-nut Trump supporters are trying to undermine a Hispanic competitor by adding a Kanye. Shame on you AIP guys.
The hilarious thing is that according the a poll from Morning Consult for Politico, West is significantly more popular among Trumpies than Biden supporters. He’ll probably wind up expanding Biden’s margin of victory.
Richardson is probably underestimating Biden’s margin, by the way; on current polling, Biden would carry California by five million votes, more or less.
I wonder what the old George Wallace seggies in 1968 would think if they knew Kanye West would go on to be their nominee in 2020.
Isn’t DeLaFuente somethign of a leftist? What is he doing on the AIP ticket?
If Richardson is abandoning Rocky how many of the other states where Rocky is or will be on will have the possibility of Richardson being replaced? How many of those states where replacement is possible is Kanye already on the ballot for the top spot and who is the stand-in, assuming Kanye wants to be Rocky’s VP anywhere? How does Michelle Tidball feel about this?
And how many Kanye fans are trying to figure out who the hell Rocky de la Fuente is?
“What is he doing on the AIP ticket?”
Everything has a price, apparently.
William Saturn, yes and it seems that price is somewhere around $50,000 from FEC records
There are plenty of Never Trumper conservatives in California. Up to this point, we had expected that many would write in Brian Carroll and Amar Patel of the American Solidarity Party. We hope many still will.
Michigan Voter, you said “I wonder what the old George Wallace seggies in 1968 would think if they knew Kanye West would go on to be their nominee in 2020.” Well riddle me this, MV, what would he have thought of our nomination in 2008 of Ambassador Alan Keyes for President?!
Mark Seidenberg is wrong about the candidates for Vice President when the choice of VP shall devolve upon them shall pick from the top two Electoral College vote getters for VP, but when the choice of President shall devolve upon the House, they shall pick, voting by State Coongresional delegations, from among the top 3 Electoral College vote getters for President. These facts are found in the 12th Amendment.
That you all sold out principles by putting Keyes on the ballot instead of Chuck Baldwin.
William Saturn you should be ashamed of yourself. That is a baseless suspicion. We have not received a dime from any candidate for President or Vice President, ever to my knowledge. Of course the Party records from before 2008 were withheld from us by a rebel faction. I am the assistant treasurer and have filed all our semi-annual 460 financial reports, so I am in a good position to know what I’m talking about.
HOWEVER we would have no objection to such contributions which would exhibit good sense since there are things we can do as a party that no candidate can do for themselves. Moreover, contribution limits to parties are MUCH higher than for candidates.
Andy said “That you all sold out principles by putting Keyes on the ballot instead of Chuck Baldwin.” Chuck Baldwin was the nominee of the Constitution Party with which we were at the time of the nomination no longer affiliated with. Moreover, our Party rules let us nominate someone other than our national party’s nominee. And SOLD OUT HOW? Name one single thing we got out of that choice even prospectively. We were certailn not likely to get Presidential patronage, since neither Keyes nor Baldwin had a prayer of attaing the Presidency.
And the dishonesty and dirty pool at the Arpil 2008 Constitution Party Convention is way too much to go into in the here & now.
Curtis LeMay, $50,000, WHAT $50,000?!!! Imagine me with smoke blowing out of my ears!
“Baseless suspicion”
FEC records show Rocky paid Mark Seidenberg multiple times leading up to the nomination.
https://www.fec.gov/data/disbursements/?committee_id=C00588426&two_year_transaction_period=2020&recipient_name=SEIDENBERG%2C+MARK&data_type=processed
William Saturn lies about the advance received from Rocky to cover hotels and travel expenses around California to run for house and/or senate races. None went to work on race for President. Spent 3 days alone in March 2020 at UC Berkeley Law Library looking up Texas Election Law.. Most of the time was at the offices of the California Secretary of State and Registrar of Voters in Kings, Kern, Fresno, and Tulare County on Rocky run for House of Representatives.
I’ve checked with Mark Seidenberg & he says he’s done no work for de la Fuente for President. AND the 50K figure was evidently plucked out of nowhere. Mark’s activities as a political consultant for the de la Fuente’s were known to the AIP & have no bearing on our nomination for the Presidential Ticket. We opened up the nomination process to any suggestions. We discussed co-nominating the Trump=Pence ticket again & decided that that would not make his chances any better. The ONLY ticket nominated for our nomination was the Rocky-Ye ticket.
Cost per Nov 2020 vote in all the spending machinations ???
Model State Const Amdt-
Equal ballot access, PR, AppV, TOTSOP
Esp in CA since the Elephants are de facto DEAD —
last chance to have some sane middle Donkeys – before they are purged by top Donkey bolsheviks.
William Saturn is right. That’s a matter of public record.
Explain that, Markham.
It’s obvious to everyone that the once independent-minded American Independent Party is trying to help the deranged Orange Man — a guy who has virtually destroyed the country and its institutions while endangering millions of lives by his administration’s careless response to the deadly Covid-19 pandemic — with this ridiculous ticket while at least one party leader is trying to line his own pocket in the process.
How sad that Rocky De La Fuente was willing to sell his soul for a ballot line.
Also, how do we know that De La Fuente didn’t put Seidenberg, a guy who was believed to be struggling financially, and other AIP leaders on one of his company payrolls? After all, he owns multiple enterprises, including several in California.
There’ll be no public record of that, of course.
How would Markham respond to that possibility?
The bottom line is that the American Independent Party ticket, cobbled together specifically to hurt one of the two major party nominees — and Markham himself doesn’t deny it — is tainted.
In the Democratic Party Presidential Primary, Rocky de la Fuente caame in third after Biden and Bernie Sanders. We can’t help but think that the name familiarity gained in that exercise augurs well for getting a substantial number of votes in the General Election.
De La Fuente is more to the left now than four years ago, at least from the information on his website. It’s an interesting and strange ticket.
Richardson is understandably mad, but comes across as a jerk.
I talked Darcy and he was not “mad” nor is he a “jerk”.Rob just get over the fact that the last work I did for De La Fuente was at the University of California Berkeley on Texas Election Law related to a congressional race other than work meetings with the managing director of the Election Division of the California Secretary of State. None of the work related to the race for POTUS.
AIP is purposely sabotaging the only Hispanic campaign and the only real threat to Trump.
Markham, in 2020, Rocky de la Fuente received 12,816 votes in the AIP primary – fewer votes than Sanders, Biden, Warren, Bloomberg, Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Steyer, Yang and Gabbard in California. (And his son, running in the Democratic primary, did even worse.)
In 2016 Gloria de Riva had also 2 Vice Presidential candidates under her joint ticket. Eugene Puryear
of Washington, D.C. and Dennis Banks of Minnesota (in California only).
Eugene Puryear appeared on the Vermont ballot as the Liberty Union Party ticket. Banks appeared as the vice-presidential candidate on the Peace and Freedom ticket in California. Puryear was Constitutionally ineligible to serve as Vice President – under age 35. Funny that no controversy arose then about the change of ticket for VP.
Charles, thank you for that information.
Kamala Harris is also Constitutionally ineligible to serve as VPOTUS. At here birth her parents were from foreign
countries and not US Citizens, viz., she is not a natural born citizen. Then she grow up in her formative years in Canada and graduated from a high school in Canada. Biden has been in his basement to long so he can not get the bats out of his belfry when he made his VPOTIS selection of an subject of the British Crown for VPOTIS.
In the March 2020 California Democratic presidential primary, Rocky De La Fuente III was on the ballot. He came in 13th, ahead of Cory Booker, who had suspended his campaign, but behind Sanders, Biden, Warren, Bloomberg, Bittigieg, Klobuchar, Steyer, Yang, Gabbard, Castro, Bennet, and Marianne Williamson.
Richard, thank you for that information. Now to the question of Auntie Kamala Harris, who is the father of her sisters daughter?
If the AIP really wanted to sabotage Biden in California, they should have nominated Bernie Sanders.
Richard, isn’t that Rocky (III) the son of the other AIP Rocky?
Mark, thanks for letting us know how seriously you should be taken.
Please stop with the new birther conspiracies. Anyone born here is a citizen; you could be on vacation and give birth and the child is automatically a citizen. The ONLY exception is for diplomats. Harris’s record is horrible enough, attack her on that.
In 2016, the AIP nominated Donald Trump. What changed between then and now that the party no longer supports him? Since the beginning the AIP has nominated candidates that are considered conservative if not paleo-conservative or ultra-conservative. Rocky De La Fuente is pro-choice, pro-gun control, pro-amnesty, and on his campaign website he mentions: “We propose providing every American with a publicly funded basic single payer health plan. A plan where the patient chooses and employs his personal physician – not a big hospital system or the government.” What has shifted in the AIP and are you planning to join the Alliance and/or Reform Party?
It is a misinterpretation of law to say that anyone born on the ground of the USA is a Natural Born citizen. This was NOT the intention of the law, and the historic record proves this.
Also, the US Supreme Court ruled that a person who was granted American citizenship by mistake, or by fraud, can be stripped of their citizenship and deported.
@Andy, please provide examples of someone born here, not being granted citizenship
Brandon Lyon being a citizen at birth is not the same as a natural born citizen.
@Mark, yes it is: “A natural-born citizen refers to someone who was a U.S. citizen at birth, and did not need to go through a naturalization proceeding later in life.”
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/natural_born_citizen
Brandon Lyon, my guess you have not heard of an Act of Collective Naturalization or special bills of Congress granting Naturalization at birth. They are not natural
born citizen, they however could be citizens at birth.
Harris is not a natural born citizen, her parents were Jamaican and Indian.
It is weird that the AIP didn’t nominate a conservative candidate it’s not like there are many running this year that are on many ballots, possible only one not including Trump.
We have an illegal alien in the Senate and running for VPOTUS. She must be deported immediately.
Rocky de la Fuente is not a natural born citizen either. Neither of his parents were citizens when he was born. He should be deported as well.
Regardless of all SCOTUS AND MEDIA MORONS-
USA NBC = born with a USA ALLEGIANCE Citizen Father. Period.
Place of birth means ZERO.
See also 1866 USA Senate debate adding the Citiz sentence in 14-1 Amdt.
Naturalization = AFTER birth change of nation-state allegiance.
Took 1924 and 1940 USA laws to naturalize few surviving American Indians [internal foreign regimes] – after the genocide of them from 1607-1890.
Thus –
1776-1789 State NBC [ mainly ex-Brits who swore ALLEGIANCE ] to new State regimes – TEST/ALLEGIANCE OATHS. SEE LAST PARA. OF 1776 DOI.
1776-1789 State naturalized citizens [ SEE 2-1-5 TEMPORARY WORDS ]
1789-2020 USA NBC
1789-2020 USA naturalized citizens – BY GENERAL, SPECIAL GROUP/INDIVIDUAL LAWS.
PROBLEM- MOST RECORDS DO NOT SHOW THE FATHER’S NATION-STATE ALLEGIANCE STATUS.
Also — Regardless of many MORONS —
LEGAL resident FOREIGN persons — in each area when added to USA
Brits in 1783 USA-Brit peace treaty
French in 1803 LA Purchase
etc.
Often given option to become naturalized USA citizens quicker than via standard naturalization laws [ olde 5 years residence ]
or later allowed to take up LEGAL residence in 1776-1789 States and in USA 1789-2020 [ often refugees fleeing tyrant killer regimes ]
S. Vietnam persons in 1975 RED commie takeover of S. Vietnam.
Etc.
Any of their children physically born in USA are N-O-T USA Citizens – regardless of usual suspect SCOTUS and media const law MORONS.
Demo Rep,
Are you taking about the Snider Act for 1924?
@Mark The “Act of Collective Naturalization” and other “special bills of Congress granting Naturalization at birth” relate only to people born in certain American territories like Puerto Rico.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/chapter-12/subchapter-III/part-I
Anyone born in the Mainland US (& Alaska + Hawaii) are both nationals and CITIZENS at birth:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1401
Stop this racist/xenophobic attack on someone who already has enough to attack her for. No court has ever interpreted the law like you somehow do.
In case people don’t feel like following a link:
“Natural born citizen
A natural-born citizen refers to someone who was a U.S. citizen at birth, and did not need to go through a naturalization proceeding later in life.
Political Office Requirement
The phrase “natural-born citizen” appears in the U.S. Constitution. In order to become the President or Vice President of the United States, a person must be a natural-born citizen. This “Natural-Born Citizen Clause” is located in Section 1 of Article 2 of the United States Constitution.
The constitution does not expressly define “natural born” nor has the Supreme Court ever ruled precisely upon its meaning. One can be a citizen while not being a “natural born” citizen if, for example, that person gained citizenship through the process of naturalization.
Under the 14th Amendment’s Naturalization Clause and the Supreme Court case of United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 US. 649, anyone born on U.S. soil and subject to its jurisdiction is a natural born citizen, regardless of parental citizenship. This type of citizenship is referred to as birthright citizenship.
There is some debate over whether or not one may also be a natural born citizen if, despite a birth on foreign soil, U.S. citizenship immediately passes from the person’s parents.
Today, 8 U.S.C. § 1101 defines naturalization as “conferring of nationality of a state upon a person after birth, by any means whatsoever.” In contrast, § 1401 lists eight categories of peoples who are “nationals and citizens of the United States at birth,” including those born in the United States and subject to its jurisdiction, as well as children of one or more U.S. citizens abroad as long as the parent(s) meet certain requirements. This means that foreign-born citizens falling under a provision in 1401 are, by statutory definition, not naturalized. The term “natural born” is not used, however.” https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/natural_born_citizen
Can someone explain how a supposedly anti-illegal alien party concerned with the citizenship of Kamala Harris nominate a candidate whose parents were both citizens of Mexico?
The other debate is if a person born on American Samoa qualifies. The other outlier is someone like Ted Cruz, who was born in Calgary.
I have both Canadian and United States Citizenship because I was born in Los Angeles, CA and my mother was born in Montreal, Quebec. Under Canadian Law since I was born after 1 January 1947, I am also a Canadian Citizen. If I was born on 31 December 1946 or before I would not be a Canadian Citizen.
As for Auntie Kamala Harris, I want to know who the father of her sister daughter, because her sister had that baby when she was 17 years of age and her last name is Harris also.
This reminded me of the issue of Obama mother was 18 years of age at Obama’s Birth when the required minimum age at that time the mother had to be over the
age of 19 years of age.
I am rather curious about the reported response of Darcy G. Richardson. Is he really upset about this? It’s tough to be certain since IPR is somewhat like an 1870’s telegraph… if you don’t know Morse Code you get nothing and even if you do it takes three days to see the message.
When I talked with Darby he was upset, but he was not “mad” and did not act as a “jerk”.
We talked about the founding of the American Independent Party.
I sit corrected. Rocky was FOURTH PLACE in the 2016 Democratic presidential primaries
Candidate Votes %
Hillary Clinton 16,917,853 55.23
Bernie Sanders 13,210,550 43.13
Martin O’Malley 110,423 0.36
Rocky De La Fuente 67,468 0.22
Fourth Place in the CALIFORNIA Presidential Primary
If I were Darcy I believe I would be upset at being called Darby.
Brandon “birthright citizenship” is a vexed term. What does it mean to be UNDER the jurisdiction of the US rather than IN its jurisdiction? It is the AIP position that while foreign tourists (or illegal immigrants) are IN US jurisdiction, they are not UNDER it, so the children born in the US of such parents do not in fact enjoy “birthright citizenship.”
Justin Apash, Rocky assured us that he would completely support our party platform. We will see how that woks out, but either our ticket winning or our ticket taking enough votes from Biden to make Trump win would please us very much.
MeanJean wrote “AIP is purposely sabotaging the only Hispanic campaign and the only real threat to Trump.” MeanJean we are not racist, you are!
MLB you wrote “Also, how do we know that De La Fuente didn’t put Seidenberg, a guy who was believed to be struggling financially, and other AIP leaders on one of his company payrolls? After all, he owns multiple enterprises, including several in California.
There’ll be no public record of that, of course.
How would Markham respond to that possibility?”
How would I respond to that?! Get me a legal dictionary, I want to check the difference between slander and libel!
MS —
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Citizenship_Act
Snyder Act
NOT to be confused with
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1924
1924-1965 immigration machinations with delayed naturalizations.
—-
ALL the USA naturalization acts since 1790 should continue in the US Code
— due to ongoing Citizen status stuff.
Jeff Becker, Let me give you some context. We tried and were unable to get the Secy of State to put Donald Trump on our Presidential PREFERENCE Primary ballot, but he would not do so. Some registrars of voters telling tales out of school let us know on the sly that Trump got 70% of the vote as a write-in in our preference primary.
Also, with minor parties, often the national party will nominate someone different than the winner of the State primary. WAIT! Come to think of it, that’s the way it is with major parties too.
NOOO such thing as dual citizenship — one more invention by legal MORONS.
What if a WAR between nation-states involved ???
Half a body captures/kills the other half a body ???
See USA Const Art III, Sec. 2, para 1.
All sorts of layers of New Age MORON legal nonsense —
many due to SCOTUS MORONS trying to be politically correct at various times.
Wow, a lot of ink is spent on this topic. 85 messages with regards to Kanye West and Rocky de la Fuente. Though l like Rocky, if Kanye was not chosen as VP l doubt that so many messages would be written on this topic. He has struck a nerve. May be a good sign for things to come.
Thus-
Was/Is B. Obama NEITHER a natural born or naturalized USA Citizen ???
Thus-
Was/Is K. Harris NEITHER a natural born or naturalized USA Citizen ???
—
Expect another zillion posts from any legal MORONS – esp. usual suspect RED commie legal MORONS —
who are 1917 bolshevik LAWLESS in order to get CONTROL of the USA.
See Stalin Apocalypse TV cable series – esp 1917-1922 Lenin mass murder stuff – practice for Stalin in for his later mass murders in Ukraine in 1932 and 1936-1939 mass purges – esp of olde 1917 bolsheviks.
If the goal was to take votes away from Biden, a far leftist big name would have been a better choice.
“It is the AIP position that while foreign tourists (or illegal immigrants) are IN US jurisdiction, they are not UNDER it, so the children born in the US of such parents do not in fact enjoy “birthright citizenship.”
– which no court has EVER interpreted in that manner, with numerous cases affirming the opposite. This is in the constitution, which makes it apt that the AIP couldn’t work with the Constitution Party and left.
“It is the AIP position that while foreign tourists (or illegal immigrants) are IN US jurisdiction, they are not UNDER it, so the children born in the US of such parents do not in fact enjoy “birthright citizenship.””
So in other words, Rocky de la Fuente does not enjoy birthright citizenship under the AIP view yet the AIP nominates him anyway.
@BL,
The Cornell website was expressing an opinion, nothing more.
Their argument is that persons born in the United States are citizens; and since it is the nature of their birth birth (i.e. being born in the U.S.) that makes them citizens; and that therefore they are “natural-born citizens”
The SCOTUS would likely duck the issue, saying that it was a political issue to be decided by Congress when they counted the electoral vote. See legal doctrine of “calidum capscum annuum
I’ll take the opinion of an ivy league law school over a xenophobic partisan, also they cite actual court cases.
The AIP has shown neither integrity nor smarts for a long time. Nominating a guy while simultaneously arguing he’s ineligible is the most AIP thing ever.
“natural-born”
Are those born from Caesarian section ineligible then?
Let’s take the 2008 GOP Nominee John McCain III, he was born out of wedlock on the island Colon in the Republic of Panama to a US Citizen mother when was not employed at the time of Panama Jack McCain’s birth.
McCain never got naturalized so he was just a citizen of the Republic of Panama. He was never any kind of citizen of the United States.
Are you guys done knuckle f***ing each other yet?
12 Amdt part —
” open all the [2-1-2 Prez/VP State/DC Electors] certificates and the votes shall then be counted; ”
NOOOO judicial power in the Congress gerrymander hacks to rule on the legality of any *vote* —
NOT like the language in 1-5-1 [due to rotted Brit monarchs trying to have stooge Parliaments].
ALWAYS power in courts to rule that the wrong person took office
— the really olde olde olde “quo warranto” stuff
— now one more civil action with related possible major felony stuff.
See ***under color of office*** cases.
If wrong person did take office, then courts often play the de facto game —
the wrong person’s *official* acts/omissions were generally *legal*
— which may take a major reversal with Obama and possible Harris cases.
Hey Mr. “Deport Rocky,” children of legal residentd AND their parents are UNDER the jurisdiction of the US. BTW, when ‘under’ and ‘in’ are used in regard to jurisdiction in the 14th Amendment, was the choice of two different prepositions just a random choice or was there some meaningful intention behind it, hmmmm?
Mr. Silence Dogood, the mode of exit from the womb is irrelevant. The fact of being in or out is the point. Ceasarian births, however natural they my be, does not make someone born that way not a natural born citizen. Glad I could clear that up for you.
Mr. wolfefan I will not discuss AIP intelligence, although I must say it is definitely above ape intelligence. Whether Rocky de la Fuente is natural born is something that has not been adjudicated. My personal opinion hinges on the fact of the legal residence status of the parents at the time of his birth in the US. Given his several runs for the Presidency, there must REALLY be something profoundly wrong in or system of government if the matter has not been thoroughly vetted yet! (And there IS!)
Mr. Brandon Lyon, you preening poseur, you starveling knave, who are you calling a xenophobic partisan? I am, I will have you know, a xenophilic partisan!!
Charles, I’d say the AIP has struck a nerve here, as was our intent.
Any one out there knows the name of the father on Auntie Harris niece? Reason her sister had her niece when she was 17 year old. The niece surname is also Harris and that got me concerned.
The day before the Convention of the American Independent Party of 15 August 2020, I read the article by Gabrielle Gayagoy Gonzalez titled “The Truth about Kamala Harris’ Niece, Meena Harris” (THE LAST, 14 August 2020, posted at 4:36 EST).
It was a book review of the book “Kamala and Maya’s Big Idea”. After read the book the question came to mine who
is the father of Meena Harris, since Kamala and Meena have the same surname.
Remember that John McCain III was born out of wedlock in the Republic of Panama (viz., Colon Hospital on Colon Island outside of the Canal Zone in 1937) to an unemployed US Citizen mother at the time of his birth. He was never naturalized as a United States Citizen.
Kamala Harris was raised in Canada and attended High School there. This information means I will order birth certificates. Since California birth certificates are truthful.
When I was doing research of birth certificates in Hawai’i
in 2008, I located 43 to people that were not born in Hawai’i.
I tried to post this under William Saturn’s post on this at Independent Political Report, but either computer error or someone didn’t like my response and didn’t publish it. Here’s the gist of it which I’ll post here in response to Saturn’s column talking about Darcy Richardson’s disapproval of this:
1. The American Independent Party can do whatever the hell they want. It is their ballot line they own and they are not subservient to any national party organization that dictates to them their national ticket. That makes them no different than the Alliance Party of South Carolina, the Natural Law Party of Michigan, the Reform Party of Florida, the American Delta Party of Delaware that chose to nominate Richardson for VP nominee at their own discretion to serve their own motivations. Obviously the AIP has different motivations, but they’re allowed to have them.
2. In response to #1, they can do whatever the hell they want to serve their own political aims. You can criticize their reasons, but it’s irrelevant, because you’re an outsider that is not part of the organization.
3. Some people seem to be antagonistic to a candidate that is throwing money around at certain people to get nominations. My response to that is to ask if you are new to how politics works, even third party politics. But also that political organizations are sovereign to the point of deciding who to nominate and for what reason. Perhaps the money is taken to withdraw from the presidential race in exchange for a self-funded candidate and the money is used in other areas by said organizations, which is the De La Fuente campaign in a nutshell to me. If anyone has evidence of corruption, than I suggest you share it with the responsible authorities.
I am sympathetic to the De La Fuente/Richardson ticket, but it’s not out of a positive opinion for either man really but instead more out of the spirit that drove the creation of the Alliance Party. The Alliance Party strongly states it is for state parties retaining their own defining characteristics as opposed to trying to force everyone into a single narrow vision dictated centrally. So what are certain individuals trying to do here?
My suggestion is read the following and view the video within “SNL DNC Town Hall” about the “FUNT” Kamala Harris.
https://www.marijuanamoment.net/snl-knocks-as-americas-cool-aunt-who-will-arrest-you-for-marijuana/
The article was: “SNL Knocks Kamala Harris as ‘America’s Cool Aunt’ Who Will Arrest You For Marijuana”
(Marijuana Moment, 30 September 2019)
I thought that what the AIP did was rather creative. Assuming that either De La Fuente or West carried other states besides California (admittedly a remote chance that they could carry ANY state), their electors would be in a powerful position, and could even reverse the order of their votes between Pres and VP.
Will they both be on in Maine? It would be interesting to see their ranked votes there.
Apparently not.
Hi Markham. Thanks for your response. You’re incorrect in stating that the NBC status of de la Fuente or Harris have not been adjudicated. The matter was settled in Wong Kim Ark. They are both natural born citizens. While the AIP might have a different view of what the decision means, that’s irrelevant until you convince a court of competent jurisdiction to agree with you. No one could do that with Pres. Obama, whose NBC status was discussed at length in a court decision. If Obama was legal under the law (right or wrong) then de la Fuente and Harris are too.
It’s telling that you don’t address the integrity issue. The AIP has just nominated a candidate who is pro choice, pro gun control, and pro single payer health insurance. I campaigned for John Schmitz back in the day and even got to meet him in the 90s when he was working at Union Station in DC. He’d be ashamed of what the AIP has become.
And can both of you shut up about a West/Harris debate? West doesn’t even know you exist, let alone that he’s your nominee. He’s not going to debate anyone running for VP.
You can’t cite a single court case that supports your theories so you resort to insults, come back when you’ve convinced a SINGLE federal judge of your rambling “interpretations” of the constitution,
Brandon Lyon
Here is one case for you WATTS vs. UNITED STATES.
the. Cite of the case of WATTS v. UNITED STATES is
1 Wash. Terr. 288 (1870) just after the 14th Amendment became effective.
What about the Watts case (which dealt with political speech) has any bearing on the definition of a “natural born citizen” https://www.oyez.org/cases/1968/1107%20MISC
In the second case you mentioned “1 Wash. Terr. 288 (1870)” it dealt with a murder conviction on San Juan Island. Again it has nothing to do with being a “Natural Born Citizen”
Please cite any court case that dealt with how the term “Natural Born Citizen” is defined. The fact that McCain, Rocky, and many other people born outside the US or inside the US to non-citizens have been deemed eligible to run for president in the past clearly shows the courts do not share your myopic view.
I don’t know what the deadline is for finalizing who gets on the ballot but the AIP should consider having another nomination convention and change the ballot line to Kanye West for president. That way the AIP will get a ton of publicity and a huge number of votes. “Charles, I’d say the AIP has struck a nerve here, as was our intent.” Okay but most people commenting here are frequent visitors to Ballot Access News and Third Party Political Report. If you want to struck a nerve with people outside of this circle then Kanye West is the way to go. By the way there is a chance I could support the ticket regardless because I live in California. I just need reassurance that while Rocky De La Fuente considers himself pro-choice that he supports letting states decide the appropriate laws with regards to abortion (overturn Roe V. Wade) and supports pulling funding from Planned Parenthood (which he already expressed).
The best thing these 3rd parties can do is not worry about electing a president but instead try and have canidates run for offices that they can actually win. It seems some of these parties only run someone for president instead of other local offices that they could actually win. If they won a local office they would get free publicity.
Brandon Lyon
I only raised one case of Watts v. United States that was the case of 1870. It did cover murder, however it went into the meaning of “subject to the jurisdiction, thereof”
“The best thing these 3rd parties can do is not worry about electing a president but instead try and have candidates run for offices that they can actually win. It seems some of these parties only run someone for president instead of other local offices that they could actually win. If they won a local office they would get free publicity.”
The best strategy is to find the optimal balance of the running a presidential candidate and local candidates. Many states have ballot access laws where if a presidential candidate or state-wide candidate gets a certain percentage of the vote then local candidates have automatic access. There are states where the presidential candidate and local candidates can do a single petition drive to get them all on the ballot. A solid presidential candidate can generate funds and publicity for local candidates. Many people will not take third parties seriously and consider voting for them if they have no presidential candidate. Third parties should aim to get ballot access to enough states that they could theoretically win the electoral college (270). And the other hand the campaign expenses for presidential candidates is expensive and takes away from resources of local candidates. Here is what I would do if I was chairman of a national third party. Get the presidential candidate on as many ballots as possible however once they are on the ballot do triage campaigning. For example if it was the Constitution Party I would have the presidential candidate focus their campaigning in Idaho, Utah, and Nevada. Libertarian Party focus on Montana. Green Party on Vermont. There would be very little presidential campaigning outside of a few strategic states. In order words go for electoral college votes. If this sounds like a stretch remember that Evan McMullin was leading in Utah for a month in the polls. The rest of the resources would be spent in local candidates.
Don Grundmann
Talking about your body parts is disgusting. This is why you are not a gentleman. The last day Dr. Don Grundmann was a member of the National Committee of the American Independent Party was on 2 September 2008. You have also recked the Constitution Party of
California with a current electorate of 222, that is just one third of the number 666 you Idea goal.
The knuckle-bleeping continues.
As a presidential candidate, Kanye West got enough valid signatures to appear on Utah’s ballot, it was reported Monday.
@ Apash
“if it was the Constitution Party I would have the presidential candidate focus their campaigning in Idaho, Utah, and Nevada.”
Thanks for the vote of confidence. This election cycle, the evidence suggests that Idaho as a premier campaign ground by the current presidential candidate is apparently out of the question. Their loss, not ours.
Incidentally, I agree with John…”instead try and have candidates run for offices that they can actually win.” We’re trying in Idaho…a ball and chain of a moribund national CP not with standing.
For those that are concerned with the lack of not being a natural born citizenship status of Auntie Kamala Harris. She was born at the Kaiser Oakland Hospital and spent here early childhood as an anchor baby in Berkeley, CA.
There she attended Thomas Oaks Elementary School. That was before going to Canada.
How many states is Rocky on now, and how many potential EC votes?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_party_and_independent_candidates_for_the_2020_United_States_presidential_election
FEC is/will be collecting Prez/VP candidate data from States in order to do Federal Elections, 2020 in 2021.
Apparently lots of 0.1 or less pct EGO FREAK candidates.
Charles,
Thank you for that Post, But California has 55 electoral vote.
The website just mentions the total number of electoral votes that Rocky De La Fuente has won which is 196 electoral votes from 15 states including California. This of course consists of the backing from Alliance Party, Reform Party, National Party of Michigan and if course American lndependence Party. I was just responding to «curious’s» question on that. Rocky’s party that is registered in Delaware; American Delta Party is merged into Alliance Party. Nice to see so many centrist parties merge into Alliance party.
Sorry l meant Natural Law Party of Michigan.
Oh wrong name. My « name » or alias is Charles not Conrad. I guess it is time to go to sleep. 😉
Ok Paulie
@BL,
Read the Georgetown Law article by Lawrence Slocum (cited by the Cornell web page). It in particular suggests that the term “natural-born citizen” can not be understood by decomposition of the indivual words.
The Cornell web page uses lazy logic. The 2nd paragraph is correct. Someone who is naturalized can not be a “natural born citizen.”
It then jumps to a conclusion that a person who is a citizen at birth, and therefore not naturalized is a “natural born citizen”
A -> B does not imply A’ -> B’
While we can agree ciizenship at birth is a necessary condition, it might not be a sufficient condition.
Also phrase your statement about McCain and Obama having been deemed to be natural born citizen, into active voice. Who deemed?
Kanye West is apparently having something of a mental breakdown and Jared Kushner, the President’s son-in-law, is taking advantage of this manic episode. The unfortunate fact of the matter is that the Alliance Party’s serious attempt to establish a centrist alternative is now inexorably tied to this nonsense, and it completely corrupts their efforts. Perhaps that was the goal of the AIP’s leadership?
This move is bad for Kanye, Rocky and the Alliance Party. Plus, it completely undercuts the credibility of third parties in general. The whole thing is depressing and the only person who actually benefits in the end is Donald Trump.
M focal Austin Cassidy,
Why would State that Kanye West “is apparently having something of a mental breakdown”. Where did you go
to medical school and when did you become a medical
doctor?
Mark,
I am not a medical doctor, however his wife has publicly stated that Kanye was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder. He was hospitalized in 2016 and placed on a psychiatric hold.
Are you not familiar with your own vice-presidential nominee’s very public history of mental breakdowns and erratic behavior?
“your statement about McCain and Obama having been deemed to be natural born citizen, into active voice. Who deemed?”
Every single state board of elections that’s who.
For NON-MORONS-
USA Citizen Father [natural born or naturalized] >>>
natural born USA Citizen kid.
Place of birth means ZERO.
More and more New Age con law MORONS
— due to SCOTUS robot party hacks
— esp since 1861 Lincoln hacks.
I do not recall any board of elections that address the fact that John McCain III was born out of wedlock in the Republic of Panama to an American Citizen at the time of his birth was unemployed.
Demo Rep.
Place of birth does mean more than zero, but does have value if born in the United States. Then we have the issue of United States Insular Possessions which have some weight other than foreign territory.
Being born on the Midway Islands will get one a Birth Certificate issued by the State of Hawai’i, even though
the Midway Islands are guano Islands under the Guano Islands Act of 1856 and not part of the Territory or State of Hawai’i. That is a reason an Hawai’i Birth certificate is not
a good proof of citizenship. Our by Both the Territory of Hawai’i
and the Territory of Michigan have remainder territory that was not an area of any state. In the 19h Century there were one more remaining Territory that had remaining territory that where not part of the States of North Dakota and South Dakota. That was the remainder of the Territory of Dakota that was known as “Lost Dakota” which was added to later by Act of Congress to Montana.
Again –
olde birth certificates mostly, if not totally, do NOT show the nation-state status of the alleged father.
If and when SCOTUS hacks get some brain cells, then there will be a birth records CRISIS and i or more ex post facto mass naturalization laws.
—-
Related –
Early on in many States ONLY USA Citizens could own real estate.
Matter was the subject of a few SCOTUS and counterpart Brit court cases before about 1850 – inheritance stuff esp. — often in connection with 1783 USA-Brit Peace Treaty – property rights.
IE father — USA Citizen/Brit subject chain — with records problems.
when my parents were born birth certificates were not required. Then it was only required of men. My parents never got birth certificates in either Canada or Illinois. My dad was born some time between 1898 and 1900. My mother was born June 10, 1904 in Canada. When she entered the United States my Grandfather just stated date and place of birth and no passport was required.
That is how Chester Arthur got away with lying when he ran for VPOTUS who was born in Canada.
BAADE good olde days before WW I in 1914.
STATIST TERROR/TYRANT govts since then.
In USA election reforms killed off- esp efforts for P.R.
– since 1917-1918 — USA into WW I — helping Brit and French Empire hacks fight Central Powers killers / enslavers.
No Board of Elections addressed McCain’s circumstance because Congress had already done so. Also it wouldn’t be the role of the BOE to do so anyway.
Looks like the party has lost the last semblance of principles it had (I would say it started when they separated from the Constitution party in 2008). Just look at Markahm Robinson’s comments, it’s about acting as a spoiler (although California is pretty much guaranteed Democrat)
@BL,
Did any state board of elections deem George W Bush to be a natural-born citizen?
Have you had a chance to read the Slocum (Georgetown) paper.
Ben you still have the Constitution Party of California with at the latest count of 222 electors headed by Dr. Don Grundmann who last was a Central Committeeman in the AIP on 2 September 2008.
How many USA/State cases keeping the names of UN-QUALIFIED candidates off of ballots ???
esp in the BAN super-database ???
the NBC item of Justice Riley —
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/natural_born_citizen
2007 SLOCUM
—
See *****ALLEGIANCE***** MENTIONS IN BLACKSTONE’S COMMENTARIES.
SEE ***ALLEGIANCE*** IN LAST PARA OF 1776 DOI.
TOO MANY REALLY EVIL STUPID SCOTUS PARTY HACKS TO COUNT SINCE 1861.
Good choice I applaud.
Rocky is a total joke who couldn’t get elected dog-catcher and nominating Kanye is a desperation move when nobody asked him if he wanted to run with the AIP.
The race is between Trump and Biden. I can’t believe people are fighting so hard for third or fourth place behind the two!