On May 11, Montana Governor Brian Schweitzer signed SB 96, which makes it illegal for out-of-staters to circulate initiative petitions in Montana, and makes it illegal to pay circulators on a per-signature basis.
On May 11, Montana Governor Brian Schweitzer signed SB 96, which makes it illegal for out-of-staters to circulate initiative petitions in Montana, and makes it illegal to pay circulators on a per-signature basis.
This may not seem like a big offense to some, but this is a very bad thing that should be grounds for the govenor being removed from office and put in prison. This is a gross violation of the 1st amendment and it is also a gross violation of the rights of everyone in Montana because it is going to mean less power for the people as it will be harder to put issues on the ballot, and more power for the legislature. The govenor of Monanta and anyone in the Montana legislature are really disgusting indivduals. The courts should do the right thing and throw this bill out, but I wouldn’t hold my breath for that.
The problem with governors signing obviously unconstitutional bills like this is that it takes hundreds of thousands of dollars to challenge it in court.
Every state where anyone has filed a lawsuit against anti-1st amendment provisions like this, the law has been thrown out.
“Jack Says:
May 16th, 2007 at 9:13 am
The problem with governors signing obviously unconstitutional bills like this is that it takes hundreds of thousands of dollars to challenge it in court.”
The govenor and anyone in the legislature who voted on it should be the ones to pay those bills.
“Every state where anyone has filed a lawsuit against anti-1st amendment provisions like this, the law has been thrown out.”
One problem that I’ve noticed in these situations is that one state will pass it, and if it ends up getting struck down in that state, some other state will pass it and people in that state will have to go through the same hoops to try to get it thrown out in that state. Also, this kind of stuff can take years and there is no gaurentee that it will be thrown out. In the meantime 1st amendment rights are being violated and choices are being denied to the voters.
Don’t tell anyone you read from me, but if the provision against paying petition circulators anything is struck down by the courts then they will simply pass a law setting a high minimum wage for petition circulators. Hey that’s what the police power is for – killing voluntary transactions between consenting parties. It might cheaper to fly over populated areas and drop postage paid petitions. Just sign it and drop in a PO Box. Of course, the 1st doesn’t trump littering laws either.
We Montanans are not crazy about mercernary out-of-state signature gatherers descending on the state and committing pervasive fraud in order to make their per-signature bucks. (We’re also not crazy about how a single NYC real-estate developer can hijack our state’s initiative process, either.)
It’s probably true that the citizenship requirements are unconstitutional — we’ll let the courts decide that one, I guess — but prohibiting per-signature payment was the right thing to do.
“Jay Stevens Says:
May 17th, 2007 at 3:05 pm
We Montanans are not crazy about mercernary out-of-state signature gatherers descending on the state and committing pervasive fraud in order to make their per-signature bucks. (We’re also not crazy about how a single NYC real-estate developer can hijack our state’s initiative process, either.)”
This is an absurd line of reasoning. What in the HELL difference does it make where the petition circulator is from? What in the HELL does this have to do with the petition? Nobody forces anyone to sign a petition, they merely ask them to sign, it is up to the person being asked as to whether or not they want to sign. The petitions say what they are on the sheet of paper so everyone who is asked to sign can read them. If a person doesn’t want to sign they don’t have to sign, nobody puts a gun to their head.
Also, there are plenty of jobs where people travel to different states. Should you all place a ban on out of state truck drivers? How about out of state musicians or comedians? How about out of state contruction workers? I also happen to know that Democrat and Republican politicians hire people from different states to work on their campaigns. And what if the President were to visit Montana? There has never been a President from Montana, so should the President or even a Presidential candidate or their staff not be allowed to speak in Montana since the President and their staff are not from Montana? I’m not from Montana and it happens to be one of the few states that I’ve never even visited. So should it be a crime for me to travel to Montana and hold up a sign that says “Ron Paul for President” or for me to say “Please vote for Ron Paul.” or for me to hand out Ron Paul for President pamphlets (and since Ron Paul is not from Montana perhaps there should be an additional charge)?
Also, nobody is “hijacking” the initiative process in any state accept for the state legislature when they pass laws to make it harder to put things on the ballot. So what if somebody from out of state donated money to a petition drive? People donate money to causes in other states all the time (both political and non-political). I gaurentee you that Democrat and Republican politicians take money from out of state on a regular basis. I know for a fact that there were people in Montana who were in favor of the petitions in question (Spending Limits, Stotp Eminent Domain Abuse, and Make It Easier To Recall Judges). What difference does it make if there were people from out of state who donated to their cause to help them out? There are all kinds of organizations and causes that have branches and supporters in all 50 states and DC. Should it be a crime for a person in Montana to send a donation to an organization in a different state? There are definitely people in Montana who’ve donated money to organizations/causes that were outside of Montana, so why can’t a person who is not from Montana donate money to an organization/cause that is in Montana?
Do you have any idea how difficult it is to find people who will go out in public and collect petition signatures? This is a job that most people don’t like to do. Even most hardcore activists who really believe in a cause do not like going out in public to collect petition signatures. There are only a few hardcore activists who will go out and collect petition signatures as volunteers, and out of those only a few of them will be any good at it, and out of those only a few of them will even have the time to do it. The fact of the matter is that most people – even if they really believe in a cause – do not have much time to go out and collect petition signatures. Most people are too busy with their jobs, their families, and just dealing with the regular chores of life to go out and collect petition signatures. Therefore there is a need to hire people to do it. If a person would prefer to donate money rather than going out and collecting volunteer signatures then why can’t they do this? Also, some of the paid petitioners got their start as volunteer activist. Yeah, there are other petitioners who were just looking for a job, but so what? Why is it OK for teachers, doctors, cops, politicians, auto mechanics, insurance salesman, and even preachers, to get paid, but not people who collect petition signatures?
The reason that campaigns often hire people from different states to collect petition signatures and/or to manage petition drives is because these are people who are good at it and who have chosen to do it for a living and who would like to be able to work at it year round, or at least have the option of working on petition drives throughout the year. As I already said, most people have regular full time jobs therefore they do not have the time to collect petition signatures. If a campaign is prohibited from bringing in expierenced petitioners from other states they will be force to rely solely on whoever they can find locally. Do you have ANY FREAKIN’ CLUE how difficult it can be to find people who are willing to collect petition signatures and who are good at it? I helped run a petition drive in a state and we tried to hire as many local people as we could, but we had two problems, the majority of the local people that we hired were not very good (in fact, some of them we gave petition sheets to and they never did anything), and there was also a lot of expense involved in finding them. We ran some newspaper ads and they were quite expensive and we didn’t find anyone who became a good petitioner through ads in the help wanted section, of course, the ads were so expensive that we couldn’t even afford to run them as long as we would like to have run them. We HAD to bring in out of state petitioners or else we wouldn’t have made it. If they are going to ban out of state petitioners, are they going to pay for help wanted ads in newspapers the next time somebody wants to put something on the ballot?
I know some people who work in petitioning who actually just live on the road. They do not keep a regular address. So if they go to Montana to work on a petition for the course of the petition drive that is there home. Are you saying that it should be illegal for these people to travel around and work on petition drives anywhere since they do not keep a regular home?
You deride petitioners as if they all engage in fraud. How in the HELL do you know this? I know some of the people who worked on the petition drives in Montana last year. They are good, honest, hard working, freedom loving people. Some of them are friends of mine. I’ve worked with them before and I know they they are not liars or frauds like you are making them out to be. In fact, I take this as an insult even though I wasn’t there myself. Now I don’t know if every petitioner was honest, but I’ve worked on numerous petition drives and I can tell you that blantant acts of fraud among petitioners are the exception rather than the rule. The average petition circulator is far more honest than the average politician, and even if a petitioner does lie about something it is pretty easy to catch them in a lie becuase all a person has to do is stand there and READ THE FREAKIN’ PETITION.
Politicians lie to us on an every day basis. How often does a politician allow you to read a bill before they vote on it? For that matter, how often does a politician actually read a bill themselves before they vote on it? Politicians regularly vote on bills without even reading them.
“It’s probably true that the citizenship requirements are unconstitutional — we’ll let the courts decide that one, I guess — but prohibiting per-signature payment was the right thing to do.”
Of course the Montana “citizenship” requirement is unconstitutional. As Americans we are SUPPOSED to have FREE SPEECH no matter which state we travel to, and we are also SUPPOSED to be free to travel anywhere in the USA. If a person is from say Colorado, they do not give up their free speech rights once they enter Montana.
As for banning paying petitioners per signature, what in the HELL right does anyone have to tell anyone else that they can’t get paid or in what manner they can get paid? How is this anyone’s business, especially when the money raised to pay the petitioners is DONATED VOLUNTARILY?
How many petition drives have you been involved with? Have you ever collected petition signatures and if so how many? Have you ever run a petition drive?
I’ve been involved with numerous petition drives and I’ve collected thousands of petition signatures, and I’ve also run a petition drive. I can tell you from expierence that it is very difficult to put anything on the ballot.
While there are some members of the public that are enthusiastic about signing petitions, most people are apathetic, and some are hostile – particularly if they are government employees and the petition that you are working on is for less government in some capacity. Do you have any clue what it is like to have to deal with thousands of apathetic or hostile people?
In addition to this, petition circulators are often threatened with arrest for the mere “crime” of engaging in a first amendment activity (free speech and petitioning for a redress of grievances). Do you have any idea how difficult it can be to find places to collect petition signatures without being threatened by the police, security gaurds, etc…?
I’ve never collected petition signatures in Montana, but I know people who have and I heard some real horror stories about how difficult it was. Petitioners had a very difficult time finding locations where they could ask people to sign without being threatened with arrest and the government employees union hired blockers to harrass petitioners and to intimidate people from signing their petitions. This was a truly disgusting tactic and the blockers are real slimeballs in my opinion, as are the politicians who passed these new anti-petitioner “laws.”
The REAL agenda here is to make it more difficult to put things on the ballot. This means more power for the politicians and less choices for the general public. They can dress it up as something else but this is just a SMOKESCREEN. The bottom line is that establishment politicians see petitions, be they initiatives, referenda, recalls, minor party or independent candidate petitions, or plebisites, as a threat to their power, so they will do whatever they can to shut them down. These “laws” are anti-liberty and should be repealed or thrown out. The politicians who passed these “laws” are criminals and should be thrown out of office and thrown in prison.
Interesting that those against our Constitution, do not recognize this is actually a free speech issue. Also interesting are “locals” who claim not to want people from out-of-state. Do they ever buy goods from out-of-state? Or is everything made right there in their little ole hometown?