Connecticut elections officials say the Libertarian presidential petition lacks approximately 500 valid signatures. Libertarian activist Andy Rule will be reviewing these findings. The party submitted over 12,000 signatures to meet a requirement of exactly 7,500 signatures, but elections officials say only 54% of the signatures were valid.
The Constitution and Green Parties this year did not collect as many as 7,500 raw signatures, so if the Libertarian petition re-verification process does not succeed, Ralph Nader will be the only presidential candidate on the ballot other than Barack Obama and John McCain. Connecticut permits write-ins for declared presidential candidates.
sigh, that sucks, looks like I won’t have much of a choice this year
wow I did not realize what a bad job The Libertarian Party has done when you consider it is an established Party now. Ralph Nader, one man, has done better? I may vote for Ralph instead of Barr come election day, who knows how I will feel inside that booth.
I wrote about this likelyhood a while back on a previoius thread and was pooh poohed by the CT petitioners.
In Connecticut you should do a validity check of your sigs as you go. Signatures collected in the Hartford area should be counted as 40% valid in determining how many gross sigs you will need. Sigs collected outside of Hartford should be counted at 65%. Always use this rule of thumb in CT, unless you have some indicator to show your sigs are better.
Further, do not include in your count any sigs that look difficult to read, or where the address is not completely legible. Use a phone book to check some pages for each petitioner to look for fabrications and forgeries.
CT is one of the toughest states when it comes to verification.
This is a terrible shame, of course, but it fits the total failure of whoever was managing this year’s ballot drives for the Barr campaign.
If you want to get the 500 sigs you need, you will have to get a team of people to go town by town and research each individual voter registration of the rejected sigs and prove, one by one, that valid sigs were incorrectly invalidated or not found.
It’s much easier to collect an adequate number in the first place.
This petition drive was mismanaged in the same way and has failed for the same reasons as it was in 2004 when Marshall Fritz was the coordinator for Bergland.
Our only hope is to really go in there with a team and recheck every rejected signature by hand in the town offices.
Good luck.
This is all the fault of George Phillies. If it hadn’t been for the fiasco in New Hampshire, professional petitioners could have gotten to Connecticut in time, and it wouldn’t have turned into the anarchy and chaos that it was.
Actually, Ralph Nader is too blame, as well. They sabotaged our petitioning efforts throughout Connecticut using very underhanded tactics. Obviously, looking back, if it comes out that we were 500 short, they could be just as to blame as Phillies. But perhaps knowing Nader’s people one could surmise it was all deliberate.
What did Nader’s petitioners do that was so underhanded?
Oh please. The Nader campaign helped Barr out in some states on ballot access and vice versa.
The Barr’s campaign’s expenditure of volunteers and resources to petition in West Virginia is a questionable choice too.
Those folks would’ve been better off working in Maine and Connecticut, IMHO.
Is it true that several long-time professional LP petitioners were never contacted to work on these drives while time was short and failure was looming inexorably ahead?
Why make deals with the enemy?
In the scores of ballot drives I managed for the LP, we never once made a deal with an enemy party to assist, and we never allowed our petitioners to double board for the enemy.
Sure, Nader, the Greens, Constitution etc. have the right to be on the ballot, but I draw the line at wasting our valuable, limited resources in actually helping them.
Would you give bullets to someone who had run out when he intended to use them to kill you?
“The enemy”?
Now you’re just being sectarian to the point of delusion.
Eric,
I am advised that the NH Secretary of State, who makes the check, did not this year have time to check for duplicate Presidential signatures.
If you keep attacking me, I could make an honest man out of you by ensuring that the check gets made.
George
It is not overly sectarian to realize that the LP is the ONLY party moving in the direction of Liberty. Other parties have often used their agreements to get what they can from idealistic and naive petitioners, and worse, from naive ballot drive coordinators.
The history of the LP is filled with missed ballot access due to “cooperation” with other parties. They are more than willing to make a deal, and then use it to subvert the LP. We should make no deals. They are counterproductive. We can stand on our own.
I have managed the Maine, Connecticut, Massachusetts and innumerable other ballot drives -actually, hundreds of ballot drives. We NEVER made a deal with another party or group. Not one of my ballot drives ever failed to get enough signatures. Once I started, all succeeded. Even when I took over a failing drive that was 30,000 signatures short, had only two petitioners on the ground, three weeks to go, entirely in sub-zero weather – we made it.
There is no excuse to have failed in Maine, Connecticut, DC and West Virginia this year. There was enough time, money and manpower available. We just failed to make use of our own resources in manpower and experience.
The LP needs to get serious, learn from its experienced leaders and coordinators, make use of its own people and resources, get busy and WIN.
George Phillies is NOT to blame for the ballot drive failures.
He is, however, responsible for his own misconduct in terms of substitution. He should be actively working to have himself removed from the ballots in NH and MA and to have Barr put on. It doesn’t matter how much he disagrees with Barr on the issues (I too disagree with Barr in many areas).
The fact is, Barr is OUR candidate and helping him will help us achieve our vision of a Libertarian future. If George Phillies or Mary Ruwart had been the nominee, I would be helping them – even if one is too statist and the other too simplistically doctrinaire – They, and Bob Barr are all in the Libertarian Quadrant of the Nolan Chart.
The rejection rate for Greens was very very high as well. The Hartford cournat is really down sizing so no articles or coverage of MCkinney, little on Barr.. people did not know they were really running.
Green have 5 congrssional candidates on the ballots but one Liberterain in the second district did not make it either.
George Phillies is NOT the primary reason for the ballot access failure in Connecticut. The primary reason for this failure (as well as other ballot access failures this year) is because of the deranged Libertarian Party Political Director Sean Haugh. Haugh has a penchant for screwing over REAL Libertarian petitioners and hiring mercenary petitioners (ie-NON-Libertarians who are only out to make a buck) instead. These mercenaries don’t give a rat’s ass about the Libertarian Party and do shoddy work.
Any petitioner who consistently gets validity in the 40-65% range is not doing the job right. There is no excuse for consistently having validity that poor on a statewide petition.
This is what happens when you screw over REAL Libertarians who are ready, willing, and able to do the job RIGHT, and give favortism to mercenaries who do shoddy work and are only out to make a quick buck.
Thank you for your input, Andy.
I suggest you make a list of all the experienced, proven, long-term LP petitioners who were not contacted for the failed ballot drives. Extra experienced manpower would have made all the difference.
“It is not overly sectarian to realize that the LP is the ONLY party moving in the direction of Liberty. Other parties have often used their agreements to get what they can from idealistic and naive petitioners, and worse, from naive ballot drive coordinators.”
Not liking another party’s ideology is fine. I certainly don’t agree with Barr’s or the LP’s.
But I don’t consider them “the enemy”, nor do I consider them getting on the ballot “bullets…intended to kill me”.
The LP has no idea what political “bullets intended to kill you” are. No idea at all.
What the Democrats did and attempted to do to Nader in 2004, *that’s* a political enemy trying to kill you.
The LP has faced one very minor challenge in a single state. The Nader ’04 campaign faced over twenty of them in multiple states at once, directed by the head of the DNC and fueled by millions of dollars. 75% of the Nader/Camejo campaign’s budget was directed to fighting for its very right to appear on the ballot. It had its petitioners harrassed and threatened. And it weathered a smear campaign that the LP can’t even imagine.
Don’t talk as if we’re the enemy out to get you. You have no idea what a real “enemy” is.
Sorry, but you’re naive about what other parties have done to the LP in deals:
They have collected sigs as an exchange and then thrown them away rather than deliver.
They have agreed to swap delivery town by town, but while the LP drivers delivered the other party’s sigs, the other party did not deliver the LP sigs.
They have collected good sigs on their own petitions, but had invalid signers sign the LP petitions. And thus, everyone got to sign once.
There are dozens of examples of deliberate sabotage. Sure, sometimes it works out, but why risk it. We can get on in 50 states IF WE DO OUR OWN DAMN BALLOT DRIVES OURSELVES.
LP petitioners and coordinators: Do your own BEST work and don’t make deals.
As an outsider looking in, it is really odd to see the refusal of some non-major party supporters to work together on getting each of their candidates onto the election ballot.
I hate to break it to you people, but you are all in a political minority and, as far as minorities go, you are probably competing with the gays for how unpopular and downtrodden you are.
If you cannot see the wisdom in working with another minor party or independent candidate so that you both get on the ballot, you are going to risk alienating people like me — who support electoral reform but tend to vote for major party candidates — because we tend to focus not so much on a non-major party’s platform or philosophy — which we may or may not support all in one piece — but on concerns about voting rights, candidacy rights, political rights.
Coming back claims “It is not overly sectarian to realize that the LP is the ONLY party moving in the direction of Liberty. ”
That claim is very certainly false. The Boston Tea Party is doing the same.
Ballot petitioning can be much harder then it would seem to be. Several years ago I wanted to experience the petitioning process first hand, as part of my research on ballot access laws.
The Libertarian Party of Minnesota was attempting to get their candidate — Wilkins I think it was — onto the ballot.
They needed at least 2,000 signatures in a two week period (in the summer) in the 7th Congressional district (which is mostly rural/small towns).
At the time I had some interest in the LP, and a long time Libertarian friend, but pretty much lost interest in the party. Anyways, (I digress) the petition drive failed and in large part because the 2 week time period was next to impossible to do.
There is really only one urban-college town in the district, but few students are around in the summer time. A lot of people in the district were actually not residents but on vacation (making them even less friendly to a petition).
I was a volunteer — doing it for the experience — and I think a got a few hundred signatures, with a lot of blood, sweat, tears and dumb luck.
What did I learn? Well, people can treat a petitioner like a telemarketer. Limiting the time to a few weeks in the summer is stupid, and requiring more then a few hundred signatures (for a House race) is just simply asine.
I will probably be voting on a ‘straight’ Democratic Party ticket, although I have voted for Republicans and non-major party candidates I would consider myself to be an Independent-Democrat.
I have signed petitions to help get Nader on the ballot in Minnesota. I signed petitions for the Greens and the Libertarians.
I would probably do it for the Constitution Party, even through I think they are a bunch of loonies.
The point? There are people like me who are supportive of the principles involved with having regular, free and fair elections.
Yet, when non-major parties are slow to work together when they have common ground or when I know more about electoral reform bills (and do more about them) them my non-major party friends or associations, we do get a little…frustrated.
George Phillies Says:
September 16th, 2008 at 11:14 am
“Coming back claims “It is not overly sectarian to realize that the LP is the ONLY party moving in the direction of Liberty. â€
That claim is very certainly false. The Boston Tea Party is doing the same”
You are correct about the Boston Tea Party. In thinking about petitioning, I forgot that they exist. In the future, unless they return to help build a stronger and more principled LP, which would be preferable, I expect they will be out there in many states and I won’t forget that they exist.
Eric Dondero wrote: “Actually, Ralph Nader is too blame, as well. They sabotaged our petitioning efforts throughout Connecticut using very underhanded tactics.”
Hey Dondero I thought Sarah Palin was your born again Libertarian Savior ? What happened, the $35,000 Tanning Bed in the Alaska Govenor’s Mansion wasn’t your idea Less Government ?
Your irresponsible attitude of “blaming” everyone except the responsible party, yourselves, for the Libertarians failures and launching vitriolic attacks on scapegoats reenforces the public perception of the Libertarian Party as a bunch of kooks. To bad because there are some decent hard working people in that organization. Eventually they will take an introspective look the strength the party possessed in 80s and see how dramatically that power has erroded in the intervening years and realize the Economic Darwinist Hokum the party peddles has little if any resonance with the American Public.
Getting on the ballot in all 50 States and the District of Columbia was a snap for the Liberatrians in 1980. And they didn’t need Ralph Nader help them out. Why is it the Libertarians can’t hire the requistite number of Petitioners Notaries and Attorneys to get the job done ?
Last week Ron Paul held a major Press Conference for all of the Third Party Presidential Candidates where he urged he issued a plea to his followers to avoid the Dominant Party candidates and vote for any 3rd Party Candidate. All 4 Third Parties that were Ballot qualified on at least 50% of the states were given invitations. And all showed up with the exception of your guy Bob Barr. Barr was even in the exact same building at the time of the News Conference. That looks as blatant a snub as any. Ralph Nader even went to the length of covering for the Libertarians stating that he spoke with Russ Verney on the phone just prior to the event and had been told Barr endorsed it. It is these types of embarassing gaffs that paved the decline of the Libertarian Party.
If you guys want to be around for much longer you had better knock off the finger pointing and do some serious soul searching.
#13
“Even when I took over a failing drive that was 30,000 signatures short, had only two petitioners on the ground, three weeks to go, entirely in sub-zero weather – we made it.”
if you’re this good, you need to start a business and make millions
Hey, if you’re in Connecticut, just write in Bob Barr on the ballot. It’ll still count.
#13
“Even when I took over a failing drive that was 30,000 signatures short, had only two petitioners on the ground, three weeks to go, entirely in sub-zero weather – we made it.â€
if you’re this good, you need to start a business and make millions
That’s a good idea, but I started another business instead. It’s been operating for many years, has an amazing ROI and is worknig out quite a bit better and is less stressful than ballot drives would be as a business.
Eric Dondero Says:
September 16th, 2008 at 7:10 am
This is all the fault of George Phillies.
No, this is NOT the fault of George Phillies, in any way, shape, form or fashion.
This is purely and squarely the fault of Sean Haugh.
Haugh didn’t TRY to succeed, then failed; Haugh NEVER tried to succeed. He had valuable resources at his disposal, which he scoffed at, at the expense of the entire state parties of CT, MA, ME, WV and DC, to name but a few.
It’s malfeasance at its very worst.
If I had been in Connecticut, I could have picked up the 500 valid signatures in 3-4 days, and I’m probably the most prolific LP petitioner in the history of CT petition drives (unless I stand corrected with new information to the contrary).
There were two expierenced, (REAL) Libertarian petitioners who were ready and in place to petition in Connecticut, but Sean Haugh, or more appropriately, Sean the HaHa boy, blocked them from working there for no legitimate reason.
One of them was Jake Witmer who was actually about to drive from West Virginia to Connecticut. Sean the Haha boy blocked him for the “horrible offense” of Jake having responded to an unfounded personal attack that was launched against him by Shane Cory. Jake is a vetran petitioner who has worked Connecticut before and is also an actual Libertarian activist.
The other Libertarian petitioner was Gary Fincher who was actually in Massachusetts and then Rhode Island when the LP ballot access petition drive in Connecticut was happening. Gary has been a Libertarian activist since 1989 and a Libertarian petitioner since 1991 and is one of the top petitioners in the country. Gary has petitioned in Connecticut 5 times and was more than capable of being the difference maker in Connecticut. Sean the Haha boy actually knew that Gary was in New England because Gary gathered 2,000 signatures for Libertarian Party ballot access in Massachusetts. Gary had petitioned in Massachusetts on many occassions and was personally invited to Massachusetts by the State Chair of the Massachusetts LP, George Phillies. What was Sean Haugh’s reaction when he found out that long time Libertarian petitioner Gary Fincher had collected 2,000 signatures for LP ballot access in Massachusetts? Sean the Haha boy ILLEGALLY tried to get Carol McMahon of the Massachusetts LP to “BURN (quite literally)” the signatures collected by Mr. Fincher, and Sean the Haha boy even went so far as to say that the signatures should be burned “whether they had been paid for or not,” thus admitting that he had no problem defrauding Libertarian Party donors and/or Mr. Fincher. Also, it should be that in Massachusetts it actually says on the petitions that anyone who alters, defaces, destroys, or supresses a petition is guilty of a crime which carries fines of up to $1,000 and prison time of up to 1 year. Fortunately George Phillies, Carol McMahon, and other members of the Massachusetts LP were not deranged like Sean the Haha boy so the signatures did not get burned and Mr. Fincher was paid in full by the Massachusetts LP. Oh, and it turned out that the validity on these signatures collected by Mr. Fincher was high, unlike the low validity on the signatures collected by the mercenary petitioners that Sean the Haha boy hired for the Connecticut LP drive. After the petition burning scandal, Gary remained in New England where he gathered petition signatures for the Constitution Party. I personally called up Bill Redpath (whom Gary has known since 1991) 3 or 4 times to let him know that Gary was in New England and was ready, willing, and able to petition for the Libertarian Party in Rhode Island, Connecticut, and/or Maine (another state where the LP ended up failing and where Gary has extensive petitioning expierence). I suppose that Sean the Haha boy’s irrational temper tantrum was more important than getting the jobs done right, because Gary never got called.
Myself and another Libertarian petitioner named Mark were working on LP ballot access in the Northeast earlier this year and we ended up leaving that area because Sean the Haha boy was trying to lower our pay. This was at the same that Sean the Haha boy was paying out higher rates to mercenary petitioners who were producing LOWER validity. We could have bailed out the ballot drives in New England had Haha boy not screwed around with us earlier this year.
Coming back to the LP Says: Sorry, but you’re naive about what other parties have done to the LP in deals:They have collected sigs as an exchange and then thrown them away rather than deliver.”
Isn’t it the other way around, nowadays (although I really, really wish I could agree with you, but can’t)?
As far as I know, Nader and the Constitution Party – even the Socialist Party – treats their contractors honorably, pays their bills on time, and generally lives up to their bargains.
The LP? Not so much.
I’d like to see a financial analysis of how much money the mismanaged ballot access failures from Sean Haugh have cost the Libertarian Party. I bet that it is well over $100,000 that has been pissed away with nothing to show for it.
“Coming back to the LP Says:
September 16th, 2008 at 10:01 am
Sorry, but you’re naive about what other parties have done to the LP in deals:
They have collected sigs as an exchange and then thrown them away rather than deliver.
They have agreed to swap delivery town by town, but while the LP drivers delivered the other party’s sigs, the other party did not deliver the LP sigs.
They have collected good sigs on their own petitions, but had invalid signers sign the LP petitions. And thus, everyone got to sign once.”
I’ve NEVER heard of anyone from the Ralph Nader campaign or the Constitution Party doing anything like this.
Also, petitioners are independent contractors and should be able to negotiate with other parties themselves if they want to carry their petitions. The only time that this should be barred would be if there is a state law that prohibits people from signing and/or gathering signatures on more than one petition.
Gary and Andy,
Gary Fincher (who I know well) and Jake Whitmer(whom I don’t know personally, unless that’s an alias) are experienced and great petitioners. You should have been hired and kept working on all the LP petition drives. It is no doubt true, as I keep posting, that it was the ballot drive management (either in the field, at the main office, or both) that caused this year’s ballot status disaster. The people who were running these drives (Haha boy or whoever) should resign or be fired, should REPAY the LP and the Barr campaign for the total cost of the failed ballot drives, as a matter of personal honor, and should never run any such efforts again.
I’m sure you are correct that if we had had Fincher and Witmer collecting in CT and ME we would have not failed in those states (assuming we had someone in the field who knew how to count sigs and estimate validity correctly. It sounds like we didn’t.)
But, you guys are wrong about the policy on working with other parties.
While you do have the RIGHT to work for as many groups as you care to, and help even the most evil candidates get on the ballot, such actions have proven dangerous in the past, have kept the LP off many state ballots, and take resources away from the LP.
The correct LP policy would be to require its paid petitioners to work exclusively for the LP during the time of their employment. Petitioners who intend to double board for other parties should not be hired.
It’s too bad the LP and/or Barr campaign lets petty, personal pecadillos prevent proven, professional, party petitioners from practicing their profession in promoting the ballot status of the Party of Principle.
“Coming back to the LP Says:
September 18th, 2008 at 9:15 am
Gary and Andy,
Gary Fincher (who I know well)”
Who is this? Is this Nick Youngers?