http://restoretheconstitutionalrepublic.org has a comment by a Texan who says that he or she recently talked on the phone with Congressman Ron Paul about the meaning of “natural-born” in Article II, for presidential qualification. According to the comment, Paul said, “There is no law that actually defines ‘natural born’, so the argument could go on forever with thousands of different interpretations. The consensus is that he is a U.S. citizen, and therefore eligible.” Thanks to Bill Van Allen.
— except IF it is clearly proven that in fact he was NOT born in HI/USA, in which case it will be a case of fraud (a very big case)
Likewise, McCain who was born in Panama on Panamanian territory which was leased to the USA. It was never a US territory or possession. It would make sense for the Supreme Court to clarify this. On one side, being born of US parents abroad would seem to fulfill the intent of a ‘natural born citizen’ but if the intent is to prevent a child of US parents that was raised in foreign countries, possibly in foreign schools during their formative years (who would very likely identify more with other cultures and interests than a child born and raised in the USA) from becoming President then it is perhaps not so clear. Either way, a Supreme Court clarification seems to be in order.
This is at the level of Holocaust denial. How many people who were present at the birth, how many birth certificates, how many birth announcements in the local newspaper, etc. etc. have to be produced before the conspiracy-obsessed decide to divert their energies toward addressing the real problems in the world?
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Ok…… Now what? A man who says he supports the law of the land bows to a general defined view?
I have followed this issue for well over six months. My congressman even stated the vetting was completed by either public information or by the political party. Yet, there is no and I repeat no state or Fed office which validates Obama’s birth.
Obama’s grandmother has stated he was born in Kenya. Also, the people of Kenya have celebrated his birth place in Kenya.
A week prior to the election Corsi from WND even hired various sources from Hawaii to validate the birth doctor and when they visited the hosptials there were greated by the police and would not allow the facts to be researched.
I will not consider Obama my president until he provides his full birth certificate regardless of the events next month.
Show us your documents and prove you were born in Hawaii. Thus far he has now and we can’t trust Obama at all.
I’m disappointed in Ron Paul’s views if in fact this was his statement.
The consensus is that he is a U.S. citizen, and therefore eligible.
That’s overstating it, is it not?
Darel Says:
…
I’m disappointed in Ron Paul’s views if in fact this was his statement.
…
Hi Darel, it looks like you forgot to read this Ron Paul quote from the article:
“There is no law that actually defines ‘natural born’, so the argument could go on forever with thousands of different interpretations.”
That quote shows Ron Paul is saying that it is not well defined and arguments could go on forever.
Darel please stop crying when other people don’t do what you want. If you don’t like the current situation then YOU should do something about it in the courts or by your own personal investigations. If you can’t do so, then at least stop blaming other people for your own shortcomings and lack of motivation.
The sad fact that Obama and Mcain were the best this country could come up with! Both with questionable birth records and Obama with no experiance and Mcain with a Lousy character and dirty as the day is long.
I voted for Ron Paul, Just so I did not have to hold my nose when I voted, I voted for the Man that best represented my view on what it means to be a American!
Our Country is self destructing right before your eye’s
To sit here and whine about Natural born is hysterical!
Keep your mind on the Tabloid news Darel! Hey by the way to you have another brother named Darel?
Well, Arnold Schwarzenegger is a U.S. citizen, but he is not eligible to be President of this nation.
I agree completely with Rafer:
“The sad fact that Obama and Mcain were the best this country could come up with! Both with questionable birth records and Obama with no experience and Mcain with a Lousy character and dirty as the day is long.
I voted for Ron Paul, Just so I did not have to hold my nose when I voted, I voted for the Man that best represented my view on what it means to be an American!
Our country is self destructing right before your eye’s. To sit here and whine about ‘natural born’ is hysterical!”
I still don’t understand this media fascination with Obama. I voted for Ron Paul, the man who is truly interested in the well-being of this country. But money, favors, and greed rule this country. Where are all the good men? Google Ron Paul and you’ll see what I mean.
Ron Paul 2012!!!
The intent of the framers of the Constitution is important; his place of birth is actually less important than his also being a subject of the UK.
Someone in the military can refuse to carry out an order and thus bring the case to a head. That person would have “standing,” whereas all the others who have brought suits have no such ability to get the merits of the case heard in court.
Ultimately, only the Supreme Court can define the meaning of “natural born citizen,” but the lengths to which Chester A. Arthur concealed that his father did not become a citizen until about 14 years after his son’s birth certainly indicate that *he* realized he could not run for president had his father’s citizenship status been known.
Darel is 100% right. There is enough definition in the constitution on “natural born”.
I grew up military and married military. The military is under US Consulate law on birth. A child of a military member on active duty and partner, if both are US citizens, is considered a citizen at birth. It is only considered a natural born citizen if it is born on US sovereign soil. Most of the US military bases abroad are leased land and therefore the child is NOT natural born. So McCain’s legal & constitutional status also leaves him as not eligible.
HBO had only 1 US parent. There is a question even if he was indeed born in Hawaii as to whether his mother satisfied the residence requirements. That has not been answered.
Also what nation’s passport did he travel on when he took that long trip to Africa and Indonesia? There is no record of a US passport at that time.
There are many more aspects to this than many realize.
And for the ignorant trolls who cry “conspiracy nuts”, learn something about the subject first. Your lack of in depth knowledge is glaring.
I supported Ron Paul as I believed him to be a strong constitutionalist. He is VERY WRONG on this issue, if he did say what was reported. And I think much less of him for not bringing it up in Congress.
This is simple to resolve. But BHO has now spent over $500,000 to keep that info sealed. Why? It is easy to prove everyone wrong.
Have you thought about that part of this mess?
For constitutional law MORONS like Paul —
ALL of the *special* words and phrases in the 1787 Constitution – 1791 Bill of Rights have about 800 years of ENGLISH legal history behind them.
Such is the New Age level of gross ignorance about everything legal and historical.
See the nonstop MORON *all stars* on Jay Leno, for some examples.
Natural born = at birth allegiance to a regime — for anybody who is brain dead ignorant on the subject — like Paul — one more of the gerrymander MONSTERS in the U.S.A. House of Reps.
I.E. a *natural born* person is presumed to have LOYALITY to a regime.
The question is whether having ONLY a U.S.A. citizen mother is enough in the Obama case — since Obama’s father was a subject of the British Empire – i.e. in the then Kenya colony when Obama was born — regardless of where Obama was physically born.
If some of you want the Supreme Court to be the Supreme Legislature, then let’s just drop having elections and the problems of representation and ballot access become moot. The opinions of only nine people can be as unjust as 535 or 5,535 but at least the opinions the more likely some truth and justice can emerge.
It is NOT the Supreme Court’s prerogative to make the law defining ‘natural born’ citizenship. It is the Congress’s prerogative – well it says that in the Constitution, but as Bush said that’s just a scrap of paper.
There is ignorance. There is misunderstanding. These are correctable with applied diligence. Then there is militant ignorance and blind self-righteous stupidity which are often manifest as arrogant hatred – fascist mentality. Be wary of such people they become killers of millions. Lacking critical mentality such people are led their own destruction by those with minimal mentality.
I smell the Weimar Republic and Hitler rising. There’s no Scotty to beam us all up! No one is coming to save you.
Get a grip. Resist befort the ovens are lit. Happy New Year!
SCOTUS and every state court defines the constitutionality of legislation and agency regulations every day. Now let’s see what the phrase Natural Bord Citizen means in a court of law.
“I will not consider Obama my president until he provides his full birth certificate regardless of the events next month.”
Be my guest. I haven’t considered Bush my president since his brother, his brother’s mistress and 5 crooks in robes stole the Florida election in 2000. That didn’t stop him from starting a war, arresting anyone he felt like and launching the Great Depression Part Deux. Obama would be pretty hard-pressed to top that now, wouldn’t he?
As a “natural born” Ron Paul Canadian, with a son that was most definitely born in Canada, who still has the privilege to hold a USA passport (thanks to his mother) as well, I am very interested in this (trivial to some) debate. I have always told my son that he could do anything in this world, except become President of the United States. I told him that he could be a State Governor, or a US Senator, but never the President.
Now that he is 18, I want to know what his “fullest potentials” actually are ASAP, & while I may rejoice in the prospects of one more great career goal/option for my son, I will fear that the power/propaganda machine behind men like Arnold Schwarzenegger will rejoice as well.
The potential consequences resulting from this question are far from trivial. Look to your Constitution for guidance America. Unfortunately, the Supreme Court errors in the 2000 election decision have not been properly acknowledged or corrected, so we can not count on that political/judicial body for clear & objective guidance. The Supreme Court is flawed, & has not been restored to respectability yet. I believe that History will find that the true roots of the 9/11/01 disaster, can be traced directly to that terrible Supreme Court ruling.
Terry: I’m not sure why you would ever have thought your son couldn’t be President (though whether he should want to subject himself to the indignities of begging for $$$ is a valid ?). There is nothing in the phrase “natural born citizen” that even remotely means anything other than a US citizen at birth, which your children would be, regardless of whether they could claim Canadian nationality as well or not. If the meaning were “EXCLUSIVELY a US citizen”, then it would say so. The Constitution is maddeningly precise in other areas (slaves counting as 3/5 of a citizen (not 1/2), for example).
The Governator, however, would not qualify, since he was not a US citizen at birth.
As far as the intent of the “natural born’ clause, ephillip, let’s not get cute. It was simply a naked political manoeuver by the Jeffersonians to deny the Presidency to Hamilton, who was born on the island of Nevis to British planters, at least one of whom may have been Jewish. All the talk about growing up overseas or divided loyalties is simply a transparent attempt to hide naked politics, as is the anti-Obama rhetoric here.
I must question why any citizen simply cannot get a copy of Obama’s birth certificate. Governments simply love to divulge personal data about their citizens. My state government regularly sells driver license information to every group imaginable, even if you try to “opt out” of it. It also has been known to send out mailings on a regular basis with the recipient’s Social Security number written in FULL on the outside of the mailing. It publishes the salaries of ordinary state government workers. It puts online details of your divorce proceedings.
Don’t we have Freedom of Information Acts in this country? Why wouldn’t they apply in this case?
Apparently the right to access information only applies to the elites trying to take advantage of the masses, not to an individual citizen trying to gain access about government leaders.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/
read and learn. Obama’s team released the birth certificate in June. Hawaii does not consider birth certificates a matter of public record.
but here are a couple of snippets you wingnuts would do well to read:
“At PolitiFact.com, we’re all about original sources. We don’t take anyone at their word or take the reporting of other media organizations as proof. We go to the heart of the story, the source of the truth — original, corroborating documents.
When the official documents were questioned, we went looking for more answers. We circled back to the Department of Health, had a newsroom colleague bring in her own Hawaii birth certificate to see if it looks the same (it’s identical). But every answer triggered more questions.
And soon enough, after going to every length possible to confirm the birth certificate’s authenticity, you start asking, what is reasonable here?
Because if this document is forged, then they all are.
If this document is forged, a U.S. senator and his presidential campaign have perpetrated a vast, long-term fraud. They have done it with conspiring officials at the Hawaii Department of Health, the Cook County (Ill.) Bureau of Vital Statistics, the Illinois Secretary of State’s office, the Attorney Registration & Disciplinary Commission of the Supreme Court of Illinois and many other government agencies.
Sounds like a Vince Flynn novel…
…And there’s the rub. It is possible that Obama conspired his way to the precipice of the world’s biggest job, involving a vast network of people and government agencies over decades of lies. Anything’s possible.
But step back and look at the overwhelming evidence to the contrary and your sense of what’s reasonable has to take over.
There is not one shred of evidence to disprove PolitiFact’s conclusion that the candidate’s name is Barack Hussein Obama, or to support allegations that the birth certificate he released isn’t authentic.
And that’s true no matter how many people cling to some hint of doubt and use the Internet to fuel their innate sense of distrust.”
I did not vote for McCain. Having said that, it appears that there is no way Obama could be a natural born citizen. Even if he was born in Hawaii, which I think is unlikely. His situation is complicated by the fact that his father was a foreign national coupled with Hawaiian law which required his mother to be a citizen for 5 years commencing at the age of 16, yet she was only 18 when he was born. That thing on the web is not the official copy and does not list the hospital of birth. The Constitutional requirements for president are only two. 35 years of age and natural born citizenship. The People deserve to know that their Constitution is being followed. What is Obama trying to hide? We’ve had 8 years of a President trampling on the Constitution and cherry picking which parts of it suited him. It’s time we go back to enforcing the Constitution. How would that be for “Change?”
. The conspiracy theories seem to die hard.
Obama was, by all credible accounts, born in the United States. Hawaii was a State at the time of his birth.
What his ailing grandmother or other Kenyan people may or may not believe, really has little to no legal standing. Such things are opinions, which do not have to be based on facts.
The California Governor was not born in the U.S.A. and thus, barring a constitutional amendment, can not be president. But he can be a Congressman or a U.S Senator.
Should the Constitution be amended? I have seen a good proposal floating around, called the ‘Civic Liberty Amendment’, that does with this very issue of candidacy.
Definition of “natural born” can be found in The Law of Nations which was utilized by the Framers of the U.S. Contitution as a reference source for legal terms. link to text below. We must only take this term in as written and by it’s original intent.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2148074/posts
Mr. Reality,
If there is one thing for sure, it is that there is more than one “informed” opinion on this, not so trivial issue.
This would appear to be the very kind of question that we would want the Supreme Court to be ruling on for us, but, as I said, because of the errors made in their binding decision to end the 2000 election ballot count (making a global mockery of American democracy), “The Supreme Court is flawed, & it has not been restored to respectability yet.” I do not trust this same body of legal/political minds to properly interpret the intent & or purpose, of this clause in the Constitution for the Greater Good.
I believe that History will find that if Bush was not given the Presidency, then the events of 9/11/01 would not have happened at all.
Terry: I certainly agree with you regarding the thoroughly corrupt nature of the current Supreme Court, or at least of the 5-4 majority who had the collosal arrogance to decide the 2000 election. But I would go further than you and say that I wouldn’t trust ANY Supreme Court or any other appointed body of “wise men” to abrogate the right to select leaders, which properly belongs to the people. The only body that should speak on this issue are the elected representatives of the people, namely Congress. While by no means perfect (in fact almost the polar opposite) they at least have the virtue of being marginally accountable to the people. History has repeatedly demonstrated that rule by appointed bodies of “wise men”, however they are chosen, inevitably deteriorates into corruption and despotism.
It all comes down to whether you ultimately put your faith in pieces of paper, even ones as well-constructed as the Constitution, or in the common sense and decency of the people. Look at history- you will see that even the best-constructed Constitution will not stop corrupt and despotic leaders from coming to power (see the Soviet Union and Weimar Germany, both of which had Constitutions just as good as the US) if the people fall into fear, despondency or ignorance. On the other hand, liberty survived pretty well in Britain for centuries without much in the way of a written Constitution at all.
As for Obama, he was qualified to be on the ballot by 50 Secretaries of State (at least 20 of whom are Republicans) and chosen by 18 million primary voters and 70 million general election voters. Congress will, properly, ratify that decision next week. It’s time to respect that and move on. I don’t know whether Obama will be a great, so-so or terrible President, but I can say with complete asurance that the nationality of his father will be quite irrelevant in how we come through the economic challenges and foreign policy crises that will inevitably arise.
If Obama or any other candidate were qualified to be on the ballot by 50 Secretaries of State, then you’re living in an alternate reality. The ELECTORS for them were certified, not the Presidential candidates themselves. The problem is that nobody has vetted his qualifications, and there is nothing in the Constitution as to who actually does. That’s a big constitutional gap that needs to be filled. Congress has no authority to define what “natural born” is–they can only address naturalization through their legislative powers. The only ways to address what “natural born” means is by either the Supreme Court of a constitutional amendment.
Whether you support Obama or hate his guts, this is a constitutional issue that needs to be addressed. The real question is whether SCOTUS has the guts to do their job and address it. I’m betting not, mainly because they lack the foresight and proper knowledge of the Constitution, not to mention the abundance of hindering biases of their own political affiliations and views.
“I will not consider Obama my president until he provides his full birth certificate regardless of the events next month.”
Do you really think anyone gives a hoot what you will or will not consider?
Wow, it is so easy to distract Americans. Give them a devil who puts together a world destroying power hungry cabinet and all they care about is the guy’s birth certificate.
If they can and do, on a regular basis, murder people all around the globe with no one being able to do anything about it… If they can, and do, steal a few trillion dollars from you idiots and no one speaks up except to complain about a few executives getting huge bonuses… If they can and do torture the people they get their hands on…
What do think they will do when it comes to creating whatever document they need to for this guy to look legitimate? How hard is it to forge a birth certificate?
You are so easily distracted from anything that means something. Amazing. Look at the little monkey on the rope… Even I saw the Wizard of Oz and you all ignore the man behind the curtain because the guy in front of it is complaining about a birth certificate.
You have elected another leader the same as the last – a man who believes in stealing from all of you to give to a select few.
Americans – give them the choice of the greatest choice ever to really have a chance – Ron Paul – or a man who promises everything that Ron Paul, but without a lick of sense about economics and so has no way to actually act on those promises. What do they choose? An ineffectual boob who will send them spiraling into economic disaster. Well done mates!
Mr Reality,
You will get no argument from me, Mr. Obama has won the right to become President, (Mr. McCain, we are told, was born in Panama).
Now, when you say “even the best-constructed Constitution will not stop corrupt and despotic leaders from coming to power”, I see the last 8 years with Chaney & Bush as your undeniable proof that this is painfully true.
The question is, will your new President have the strength to do what is necessary to role back the Patriot Act & the Homeland Security doctrine, that are so patently unconstitutional in their nature ? Will he have the conviction to keep his word & publicly investigate the details between Chaney & the “no bid” contracts with Halliburton & Blackwater ? Will he do the right thing, & prosecute the the previous administration for their role in ordering/allowing the “enhanced interrogation” methods recognized the World over as “torture” ? Will he do the right thing, & establish a new 9/11 Commission Report, to find the real answers to all of the unanswered questions relating to that day ?
Natural born or not, Mr. Obama is a great statesman, & he is the right person to fill the role now, of America’s apologist to the world, & there is of course, so terribly much for him to apologize for.
Michael Seeback- It is you who are in an alternate reality, one in which only 9 judges get to say what words mean and select our leaders for us. The fact that Obama’s father was Kenyan was well known by the public, since he wrote about it and mentioned it often in his speeches. The people decided it was irrelevant. In fact, many voters actually considered it a positive-the idea that a having a President with ties to Africa would help repair America’s severely damaged image in the world (whether that actually happens, time will tell).
Fundamentally, it seems to me you want to discount the opinions of your fellow citizens because they chose someone you don’t like. Here, though, is the problem. If the people are really ignorant fools, then all is lost and 9 judges, even if they were 100 times wiser than the current group, can’t save us. On the other hand, if there is a reservoir of common sense in the people, then I would trust their interpretation of “natural born citizen” at least as much as that of 9 party hacks in robes.
— and after a rapid chain events already set in motion in the courts, HRC (Hillary) will be installed as POTUS by say July 4th 2009 after Biden clears the path.
billvanallen,
That would be an interesting scenario, a Supreme Court ruling that Obama is in fact ineligible, would also disqualify McCain, magically putting “HRC” into the White House, & fulfilling John Titor’s prediction of our future.
What a wild card !
bill/terry: For the record, I believe that Obama was born in Hawaii and that his father’s nationality is irrelevant to him being a natural born citizen in the plain English meaning of the words. I further believe (and would bet a subtantial sum of money on it) that the courts will continue to reject all lawsuits in this regard and the Supremes will decline to hear all appeals. But let’s pretend you are right and they rule Obama ineligible. What happens then? I don’t think it’s nearly as clear as you pretend. The judicial branch has no authority to compel a President to leave office-I challenge you to show any support for such an authority. Assuming he chose not to resign the only avenue would be impeachment. But that requires “high crimes and misdemeanors”. And a diagreement over the meaning of the term natural born citizen is hardly a crime. Even a dispute over the place of birth would be hard to criminalize. After all, Obama was very young when he was born and dependent on what his mother told him as to where he was born. So, it’s highly questionable that there would be any basis for Congress, especially one controlled by his own party, to impeach. Thus, he would finish out his term. The courts probably would have authority to deny him access to the ballot in 2012, but not to force him out of office once installed.
Mr. Reality
If “Obama was very young when he was born” in Hawaii, this is a non issue for everyone. If he was born in Canada, or Kenya, or Panama, then there is.
Darryl: Haven’t you ever heard it said of someone, “He was born old?”
Terry: Is there unquestionable proof of Obama’s place of birth? Is there unquestionable proof of anything? I could question the place of birth of you, me, Derek Jeter and all 33 previous presidents. Then, one would have to say there was no unquestionable proof, since the mere fact of my questioning it defines it as questionable. Like Heisenberg’s Uncertainty principle.
The point is that the election is over. This discussion has devolved into something akin to debating whether the umpire made the right call in the seventh game of the 1997 World Series-fun, given sufficient quantities of beer, but of no real significance.
There’s no lack of problem awaiting Obama-including all hell breaking loose in the Middle East. If he deals with them successfully, no one will give a rodent’s behind where he was born. The same will be true if he screws things up.
Sorry, can’t resist… if you’re a child born of in vitro fertilization are you “natural” born?
No. 08A524
Title: Gail Lightfoot, et al., Applicants
v.
Debra Bowen, California Secretary of State
Docketed:
Lower Ct: Supreme Court of California
Case Nos.: (S168690)
~~~Date~~~ ~~~~~~~Proceedings and Orders~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dec 12 2008 Application (08A524) for a stay pending the filing and disposition of a petition for a writ of certiorari, submitted to Justice Kennedy.
Dec 17 2008 Application (08A524) denied by Justice Kennedy.
Dec 29 2008 Application (08A524) refiled and submitted to The Chief Justice.
——————————————————————————–
~~Name~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~Address~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~Phone~~~
Attorneys for Petitioners:
Orly Taitz 26302 La Paz (949) 683-5411
Counsel of Record Mission Viejo, CA 92691
Party name: Gail Lightfoot, et al.
This thread neatly clarifies why I left the Libertarian Party years ago. Unbelieveable. Entry #21 should have put this Holocaust denial nuttiness to rest. The man was born in Hawaii, the Honolulu newspaper published a (presumably fabricated, I suppose) birth announcement to that effect at the time, and no evidence has been produced to affirm the contrary, PERIOD. GET OVER IT ALREADY.
With the crushing weight of the world’s current problems requiring that everyone start acting like grownups, why on earth do people think this non-issue is something on which it’s worth spending time and energy?
And what does this have to do with ballot access anyway?
not natural born — then no access to ballot for the office of POTUS
12/30/08: Press Release – DETERMINED to have the TRUTH regarding OBAMA that he is NOT “NATURAL BORN†and therefore NOT constitutionally QUALIFIED to be PRESIDENT BERG files a lawsuit on behalf of a RETIRED COLONEL The lawsuit is an “Interpleader†that shifts the burden of proof to OBAMA Further, OBAMA is named as “BARRY SOETORO†as that is his “real†name when he was legally adopted in Indonesia
(Contact information and PDF at end)
For Immediate Release: – 12/30/08
(Lafayette Hill, PA – 12/30/08) – Philip J. Berg, Esquire, the Attorney who filed suit against Barack H. Obama challenging Senator Obama’s lack of “qualifications†to serve as President of the United States which is pending in the U.S. Supreme Court [Docket No. 08 – 570] with two [2] Conferences scheduled on January 9th and 16th 2009, filed suit against Barry Soetoro a/k/a Obama on behalf of a Retired Military Colonel.
Berg today, with co-counsel Lawrence J. Joyce, Esquire, filed another lawsuit in Federal Court in the United States District for the District of Columbia on behalf of Retired Colonel Hollister against Barry Soetoro a/k/a Barack Hussein Obama demanding to know Obama’s real name and if he is constitutionally qualified to be President. Plaintiff, Gregory S. Hollister, is a resident of Colorado Springs, Colorado and Hollister has “standing†and needs a decision so he knows whether or not to follow any Order of Soetoro a/k/a Obama.
The suit is in the nature of an Interpleader that shifts the burden of proof to the Defendants, Soetoro a/k/a Obama and Biden to show that they are “qualified†for office.
Berg stated, “I am determined, on behalf of the 320 million citizens in the United States, to see that “our U.S. Constitution†is followed. Specifically, in the case of Soetoro a/k/a Obama, does he meet the constitutional qualifications for President ? I do not believe so based upon: 1) Obama was born in Kenya and because his mother was not nineteen [19], he was only “naturalized†and therefore, not qualified to be President; 2) Obama was legally adopted/acknowledged in Indonesia at the approximate age of six [6] and attended school as “Barry Soetoro,†[his step-father is Lolo Soetoro] for four [4] years – Indonesia did not have dual citizenship and to attend school, he had to be adopted or acknowledged and he became a “natural†citizen of Indonesia; 3) when he returned to Hawaii at age ten [10], there is a question if he returned through U.S. Immigration – (a) if he did, Barry Soetoro would have been given a “Certification of Citizenship†that would have indicated he was a “naturalized†U.S. citizen since he was a “natural†citizen of Indonesia; or (b) if he did not go through immigration, which I believe, then Soetoro a/k/a Obama is an illegal alien and therefore, not constitutionally qualified to be President and his three [3] years as an U.S. Senator were a fraud.â€
Berg continued, “I am appalled that the main stream media continues to ignore this issue as we are headed to a ‘Constitutional Crisis.’ There is nothing more important than our U.S. Constitution and it must be enforced. I am encouraged that the U.S. Supreme Court has scheduled two [2] Conferences to look into the merits of our allegations. I know that Mr. Obama is not a constitutionally qualified ‘natural-born’ citizen and therefore, is ineligible to assume the Office of the President of the United States.
Obama, knows he is not ‘natural born’ as he knows where he was born and he knows he was legally adopted/acknowledged in Indonesia; is an attorney, Harvard Law head of the Law Review and graduate who taught Constitutional law; knows the Obama candidacy is the biggest ‘hoax’ attempted on the citizens of the United States in over 200 years; places our Constitution in a ‘crisis’ situation; and Obama is in a situation where he can be blackmailed by leaders around the world.â€
Berg concluded, “I will continue my efforts until Obama either proves he is qualified or does the right thing and states that he is proud that he, an African American, received more votes than anyone else in the Presidential election on November 4, 2008, but because of things in his past, he must withdraw his name.â€
For copies of all Court Pleadings, go to obamacrimes.com
For Further Information Contact:
Philip J. Berg, Esquire
555 Andorra Glen Court, Suite 12
Lafayette Hill, PA 19444-2531
(610) 825-3134
(800) 993-PHIL [7445]
Fax (610) 834-7659
Cell (610) 662-3005
philjberg@obamacrimes.com
# Mr (Alternate) Reality Says: (@30)
December 29th, 2008 at 5:06 am
“Michael Seeback- It is you who are in an alternate reality, one in which only 9 judges get to say what words mean and select our leaders for us. The fact that Obama’s father was Kenyan was well known by the public, since he wrote about it and mentioned it often in his speeches. The people decided it was irrelevant. In fact, many voters actually considered it a positive-the idea that a having a President with ties to Africa would help repair America’s severely damaged image in the world (whether that actually happens, time will tell).”
MS: And whether his father was a Kenyan or Martian makes no difference, because “natural born” has only to do with where one is born, not to whom one is born to. Had you ever bothered to do any real research into this, you would know that. I did, and I do. There are only two ways to define the term: judicially, or by amendment, and you cannot prove anything to the contrary, because there is no contrary.
“Fundamentally, it seems to me you want to discount the opinions of your fellow citizens because they chose someone you don’t like. Here, though, is the problem. If the people are really ignorant fools, then all is lost and 9 judges, even if they were 100 times wiser than the current group, can’t save us. On the other hand, if there is a reservoir of common sense in the people, then I would trust their interpretation of “natural born citizen†at least as much as that of 9 party hacks in robes.”
MS: Nope. It’s not about who I like or not, stupid. The people really are ignorant fools, and the proper process was NOT followed. Hell, neither Obama nor McCain should have been on the ballot in TX, and they were put on unlawfully anyway. And SCOTUS, infamous for their inability to properly frame or even broach constitutional issues, are no better.
MS: The fact remains that no candidate for President has had their eligibility verified before nomination or ballot placement, and that’s just wrong, and that process needs to be fixed. Period.
I believe it was the naturalization act of 1795 which replaced the one of 1792 defining “Natural born Citizen…” The one in 1795 states that it replaces the one in 1792 and it states that you have to be physically born in the US. This would put both McCain and Obama as not eligable. If Obama is alloud in, there goes any respect for Constitutional law. Why put “Natural Born” in the Constitution if it doesn’t mean something? Next thing you know, Arnold will be running and after he is elected by electronic voting again, we will all say again, “What can you do about it?”
“MS: Nope. It’s not about who I like or not, stupid. The people really are ignorant fools”
Must be awfully lonely being the great and all-knowing Michael Seebeck….
from
The Obama File
Latest OBAMANations
Berg’s Back
A lawyer who already has two conferences pending before the U.S. Supreme Court on the issue of Barack Obama’s eligibility to be president has filed a new lawsuit, this one on behalf of a retired military colonel who would need to know whether to follow any orders issued by Obama as commander-in-chief.
Philip Berg’s earlier case and a request for an injunction in the case are scheduled for conferences with the justices on Jan. 9 and Jan. 16.
The new case, filed with co-counsel Lawrence J. Joyce, was submitted to U.S. District Court in Washington, D.C., and names as defendant “Barry Soetoro a/k/a Obama.”
It demands to know Obama’s real name and his constitutional qualifications to occupy the Oval Office. The plaintiff is Gregory S. Hollister, a resident of Colorado Springs, who has “standing” and “needs a decision so he knows whether or not to follow any order of Soetoro a/k/a Obama.”
Berg reported the case is in the nature of an interpleader, shifting the burden of proof to Obama and Joe Biden.
“I am determined, on behalf of the 320 million citizens in the United States, to see that ‘our U.S. Constitution’ is followed. Specifically, in the case of Soetoro a/k/a Obama, does he meet the constitutional qualifications for president?” Berg said.
I’m just wondering, as a retired colonel, what orders Mr Hollister was expecting?
I wish all the wing-nut crowd a happy 2009, and the other 7 years of the Obama presidency as well.
suggestions wanted to a few spicy phrases to be used on this site that will for ever haunt the “anti-wingnut crowd” if or once BO is confirmed not to have been a natural born citizen and especially if he is proven to have been born outside USA i.e. not in HI.
Happy New Year Every One !
I will be sure to tune in next year to see where this trivial/not so trivial thread unwinds. With the exception of the odd dip into the “stupid/KKK/nut bar” stuff, this has been an informative, & enjoyable thread. As far as I am concerned, you are still “all good people”, wherever, & however (I love Rosa’s “in vitro” line) you may have been born.
Peace & Respect !
T.C.
Barack Obama has certainly not proven that hes a natural born citizen. I’m tired of all the wingnut worshippers of this man who want to use the Constitution as toilet paper. Barack Obama will only be 1/10 the president that George Bush was.
Happy New Year to all of the wingnut supporters of our President-select.
Mr. Reality,
Are you referring to W. or his daddy ? His daddy was no saint, but W. is a greedy, self serving, war monger without a conscience. W. took a hands on role in creating the evil empire that supports the use of torture. W. is the guy that has broken his oath of office & turned your Constitution, into the “toilet paper” that you speak of. W. & his team of neocons, are responsible for the premeditated mass murder of almost 3,000 people on 9/11/01. You got up before noon on January 1 to tell the world that you support W. ? Shame on you !
W. & his administration, has deliberately conspired with the Federal Reserve, & other such World banking institutions, to sacrifice the American currency & economy, for the achievement of their ultimate goal,
to establish a new, probably corporate based, probably cashless, global currency/credit system. This was no accident, this has been in the works for a while. W.’s daddy called it the Big Idea, W.’s daddy called it the New World Order.
W., if he doesn’t declare permanent martial law, & barricade himself in a bunker somewhere before his term is up, will most assuredly, be tried as a War criminal. There is a long list of crimes against humanity that he could be charged with as well.
It is almost Universally understood (Mr. Reality might be one of the few remaining hold outs), that W. “is” guilty of the High crime against humanity of torture. This is because of the executive branch signed orders that sanctioned, & technically legalized, this wicked practice of human degradation.
W. has a lot to be held accountable for, & if you still support this puppet president, so do you!
W., without any doubt, will be recognized as the worst President in the entire History of the USA. W., should be confined to his ranch, until he can be brought up on charges of treason ! After he is convicted, W., deserves to live out the rest of his days in the hold of a ship, or in a camp like Guantanamo, just like Benedict Arnold !
Oops, make that “W., deserves to live out the rest of his days in the hold of a ship, or in a camp like Guantanamo, just like”…. Philip Nolan, another one of your famous treasonous citizens.
Barack Obama has certainly not proven that hes a natural born citizen.
What more proof do you want?
“What more proof do you want?”
His birth certificate. John McCain released his, so the President-select should do the same.
“Are you referring to W. or his daddy ? His daddy was no saint, but W. is a greedy, self serving, war monger without a conscience. W. took a hands on role in creating the evil empire that supports the use of torture. W. is the guy that has broken his oath of office & turned your Constitution, into the “toilet paper†that you speak of. W. & his team of neocons, are responsible for the premeditated mass murder of almost 3,000 people on 9/11/01. You got up before noon on January 1 to tell the world that you support W. ? Shame on you!”
Your obviously one of the wingnuts i was talking about.
Mr. Reality,
Do “you” support the use of torture ?
Are you cheering the dawn of the NWO ?
Give your head a shake, & Google “Lawyers for 9/11 Truth”.
The World courts will soon step in , & Justice will prevail. W., & his whole team are going down !
John McCain was born in Panama. Wouldn’t he be just as ineligible as Obama to you ?
You’re message speaks for itself. You’re an Obama worshipping wingnut.
Mr. Reality,
Are you talking to me ? If you are talking to me, you are wrong. I have told you all that I am a “Ron Paul Canadian”.
I have said that in my opinion, Senator “Obama has won the right to be your President”.
I have said,”Natural born or not, Mr. Obama is a great statesman, & he is the right person to fill the role now, of America’s apologist to the world, & there is of course, so terribly much for him to apologize for.” but, President Elect Obama, being the CFR (Council on Foreign Relations) kind of guy that he is, is most certainly not my man of choice, Senator Ron Paul is.
At the risk of going off topic, Is there a American out there now, (Mr. Reality included) willing to defend W.’s shocking (no pun intended), & disgusting, legitimization of the torturous techniques now being used in the dehumanizing & denigrating confines of what has become known the World over as the “Shame of America”, Guantanamo Bay Cuba ?
Guantanamo Bay, is a place that will cause (after it is closed forever) tears of sorrow & remorse to flow for generations to come, from the eyes of the pilgrims of peace, & the decedents of those that have been martyred there alike, just like Auschwitz !
I really would be interested to see someone try to intelligently rationalize these barbarous & cowardly crimes against humanity, committed in the name of your country.
I will do my best to show you the Evil in your ways of thinking, & you can show me the errors in mine.
Oops !
That should read “Congressman Ron Paul” is my man of choice for President.
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