The Star Tribune, Minnesota’s largest newspaper, has this editorial about the recent election. The bottom third of the article praises ranked-choice voting, used in Minneapolis, and contrasts it to the dismal results of the normal U.S. election system. Thanks to Bob Richard for the link.
While I still have to admit I don’t fully understand “ranked choice,” I wonder if these major and respectable news outlets are championing such just for 3rd parties and Independents?
Who else among the non-3rd party and non-Independent electorate would ranked choice help?
Please don’t get me off on some wild-goose chase, as I’ve done enough of these during my like.
When you’re reading about ranked choice voting in single-winner elections, remember that this will require the one winner to garner 50% (+ 1 vote) for victory.
Now ask yourself who will gain from such a system? The biggest civic group (i.e. one of two political parties).
Only by offering a winner between the top three names at 33.33% plus one vote each (AKA To Two), will you guarantee a third party of independent can come close to beating the two main parties/interest groups.
Really, top two is like a primitive version of ranked choice voting in a single-winner district.
And all the noise against top two is the same noise from those who don’t want to see one winner with a guaranteed majority.
Those are the ones who want a winner with the biggest plurality, where one name with 10% beats ten names in a ten-way tie with 9% each (first-past-the-post).
Top two is a slight improvement over first-past-the-post (FPTP), instant runoff voting is a slight improvement over top-two, and as you add multi-winner districts, you can continually lower the threshold for electing each name proportionately as long as ranked choice voting is sued.
There are many, many forms of voting. The most mathematically perfect is the Sainte-Lague parliament seat distribution system, Hagnebach-Bischoff method in multi-winner districts of two or more (the more the better).
The 9th USA Parliament has been using it for 19 consecutive years and it works great!
http://www.usparliament.org
Should have written:
“Only by offering the top two winners between the top three names at 33.33% plus one vote each (AKA Top Two)…”
Ala. Ind.: You might want to refer to Hallett’s “Proportional Representation, the Key to Democracy.” Though published in 1936 (I think it was reprinted in 1978) it gives good examples of Proportional Representation with transferrable votes
(a type of ranked choice).
Gene:
First of all, the major parties are never going to change to “Ranked Choice” or “Proportional Representation,” as they are smart enough to know that such a system would only give their opposition a greater voice in a legislative body – something they DO NOT want to do and WILL NOT do unless the Courts make them.
Second, “Rank Choice” or “Proportional Representation” will give such a greater voice to a major party before it would to a 3rd party or a Independent candidate. I don’t want either major party having any more power than they already have.
You also fail to remember one other thing. Most – if not all – major party politicians are GREEDY and they want all the power and are not about to change to a system where they have to share it.
Our winner takes all system makes them have to share it, simply because no major party has an overwhelming majority of voters/supporters in every electoral jurisdiction (except perhaps on the rural county level in many Southern states and perhaps a few New England states and Mid-Western states).
This “Ranked Choice” and “Proportional Representation” nonsense is something that gives people with time on their hands something to “daydream” about when they know in reality such it is never going to happen – not in the United States for sure.
The best thing we can all do, is stay the course, and keep after the Legislatures (where needed)to give us fairer ballot access laws, such as filing fees in lieu of petition signatures.
I catch enough flack from family and friends in working for better ballot access legislation for 3rd parties and Independents. I don’t need any more flack on something which is not going to get anywhere in the United States – at least in my life time.
It has happened in the United States before. At one time or another such major cities as New York, Cleveland, Cincinnati have used it and, I believe, Minneapolis uses it now. So, it is possible.
I still stand by my previous reply. We’ll see the Legislatures and/or Courts give us the filing fee as an alternative way for a 3rd party or Independent candidate to qualify for the General Election Ballot before we’ll ever see “Ranked Choice” and “Proportional Representation” used on a wide scale in the United States.
Ranked choice voting in single-winner districts doesn’t guarantee proportional representation because if the biggest party (i.e. civic group) wins every single-winner district the one group wins everything.
Look at the old figures in the USA Parliament’s Small Business Administration Ministry which elected 50 names to get a good illustration on what a real multi-winner district seat distribution looks like under pure proportional representation:
http://www.usparliament.org/sba17.php
25,3,1,11,2 Benjamin Meiklejohn [Green Independent] (5 tics, sum of 42)
7,2,14,15,4 Anna Trevorrow [Green Independent] (5 tics, sum of 45)
24,1,17,13,29 Anita Stewart (Green) (5 tics, sum of 84)
4,2,1,5 Miss Joy Waymire [Decline to State] (4 tics, sum of 12)
18,3,2,6 Ernest Wells [Communist] (4 tics, sum of 29)
3,19,14,7 Gina DAndrea [Info. Not Avail.] (4 tics, sum of 43)
6,1,9,30 Jim Doyle [Republican] (4 tics, sum of 46)
2,6,2,41 James Ogle [Free Parliamentary] (4 tics, sum of 51)
11,28,7,8 Tom Holt [Unaffiliated] (4 tics, sum 54)
9,1,5,40 Tiffany Briscoe [Green Tea-Rainbow] (4 tics, sum of 55)
21,26,4,17 Andrew Hollis [Info. Not Avail.] (4 tics, sum of 68)
5,21,12,31 Susan Hopkins [Info. Not Avail.] (4 tics, sum of 69)
22,10,5,32 Scott M. Perry [True Freedom] (4 tics, sum of 69)
1,8,33 Vanessa Davis [Defender of the Republic] (3 tics, sum of 42)
19,13,12 Rhett Smith [First Freedom] (3 tics, sum of 44)
26,10,9 Holly Hart (Green) (3 tics, sum 45)
27,8,10 Danny Roa [Independent] (3 tics, sum 45)
11,21,16 Jay Keniston [Ozark] (3 tics, sum of 48)
12,13,23 Misha Bogatirev [Environmentalist] (3 tics, sum of 48)
10,20,20 Norm Mickey [Peace & Freedom] (3 tics, sum of 50)
16,16,21 Larry Carter Center [Disabled] (3 tics, sum of 53)
19,27,11 Samael Clemens [Luciferian-Caesarian] (3 tics, sum of 57)
17,25,18 Dan Sonenberg [Info. Not Avail.] (3 tics, sum of 60)
14,15,22 Ralph Beach [Libertarian] (3 tics, sum of 61)
30,9,39 Danny Woodring [Independent] (3 tics, sum of 78)
17,41,27 Andrew Vincent [Sensei] (3 tics, sum of 85)
16,13 B.b. LaFreak [Unaffiliated] (2 tics, sum 29)
22,15 Cornelius F. Brantley, Jr. [Multi-Party USA] (2 tics, sum 37)
33,12 Bill Bike [Whig] (2 tics, sum 45)
18,28 Jim Mueller [Direct Democracy] (2 tics, sum 46)
32,24 Kenneth Kahn [Boston Tea] (2 tics, sum of 56)
34,25 Nicholas Hensley [Reform] (2 tics, sum of 59)
36,26 Andy Zebiak [Info. Not Avail.] (2 tics, sum 62)
35,35 Rob Roberts [Libertarian] (2 tics, sum 70)
37,36 Janine Kloss [Libertarian] (2 tics, sum 73)
40,34 Zak Carter [Independent] (2 tics, sum 74)
38,37 James C. Law [Info. Not Avail.] (2 tics, sum 75)
39,38 Tony Jones [Libertarian] (2 tics, sum 77)
1 William William [Republicrat]
14 Lucian Myron [Polyglot]
18 Chloe Darks [Info. Not Avail.]
20 Patti Jayne [Info. Not Avail.]
42 Lakisha Green [Info. Not Avail.]
43 Alan Reynolds [Independent]
44 Dan Marks [Independent]
45 Holger Hadrich [Info. Not Avail.]
* * *
Marked Eballot:
James Ogle’s Vote on 7/1/2016
1 Benjamin Meiklejohn [Green Independent]
2 Anna Trevorrow [Green Independent]
3 Anita Stewart [Green]
4 Miss Joy Waymire [Decline to State]
5 Ernest Wells [Communist]
6 Gina DAndrea [Democrat]
7 Jim Doyle [Republican]
8 James Ogle [Free Parliamentary]
9 Tom Holt [Unaffiliated]
10 Tiffany Briscoe [Green Tea-Rainbow]
11 Andrew Hollis [Info. Not Avail.]
12 Susan Hopkins [Info. Not Avail.]
13 Scott M. Perry [True Freedom]
14 Vanessa Davis [Defender of the Republic]
15 Rhett Smith [First Freedom]
16 Holly Hart (Green)
17 Danny Roa [Independent]
18 Jay Keniston [Christian]
19 Misha Bogatirev [Environmentalist]
20 Norm Mickey [Peace & Freedom]
21 Larry Carter Center [Disabled]
22 Sameal Clemens [Atheist]
23 Dan Sonenberg [Info. Not Avail.]
24 Ralph Beach [Libertarian]
25 Danny Woodring [Independent]
26 Andrew Vincent [Sensei]
27 B.b.LaFreak [Nonaffiliated]
28 Cornelius F. Brantley, Jr. [Multi-Party USA]
29 Bill Bike [Whig]
30 Jim Mueller [Direct Representation]
31 Kenneth Kahn [Boston Tea]
32 Andy Zebiak [Info. Not Avail.]
33 Rob Roberts [Libertarian]
34 Janine Kloss [Libertarian]
35 Zak Carter [Independent]
36 James C. Law [Info. Not Avail.]
37 Tony Jones [Libertarian]
38 William William [Republicrat]
39 Lucian Myron [Polyglot]
40 Chloe Darks [Info. Not Avail.]
41 Patti Jayne [Info. Not Avail.]
42 Lakisha Green [Info. Not Avail.]
43 Alan Reynolds [Independent]
44 Dan Marks [Independent]
45 Holger Hadrich [Info. Not Avail.]
46 Joshua Paul Angell [Socialist]
47 Charlie Strong [Boarder]
48 Jennifer Woodward [Gandhian Green]
49 Paul Glover [Green]
50 Heli Tattari [Respublica of Earth]
51 Cindy Kay Currier [Respublica of Earth]
* * *
Ben Meiklejohn [Green Independent] ballot cast on 9/21/13:
_1__ Miss Joy Waymire [Decline to State]
_2__ Ernest Wells [Communist]
_3__ Dexter Redland [Agrarian Futurist]
_4__ Andrew Hollis [Info. Not Avail.]
_5__ Scott M. Perry [True Freedom]
_6__ Linda Losi [Info. Not Avail.]
_7__ Tom Holt (Unaffiliated)
_8__ Danny Roa [Independent]
_9__ Danny Woodring [Independent]
_10__ Holly Hart (Green)
_11__ Benjamin Meiklejohn [Green Independent]
_12__ Susan Hopkins [Info. Not Avail.]
_13__ Anita Stewart (Green)
_14__ Gina DAndrea [Info. Not Avail.]
_15__ Anna Trevorrow [Green Independent]
* * *
Jim Doyle’s [Republican] vote on 9/21/2013/2013
1 Jim Doyle
2 James Ogle
* * *
Director Miss Joy Waymire’s Eballot cast on 7/11/2013
14_Anna Trevorrow [Green Independent]
_4__ Daniel Stromgren[People’s Liberation]
21_ Susan Hopkins [Info. Not Avail.]
_6__James Ogle [Free Parliamentary]
_5__ Tiffany Briscoe [GreenTea-Rainbow]
_8__ Vanessa Davis [Defender of the Republic]
_9__Jim Doyle [Republican]
23_ Dexter Redland [Info. Not Avail.]
_3__ Ernest Wells [Communist]
_1__ Benjamin Meiklejohn [GreenIndependent]
26_ Andrew Hollis [Info. Not Avail.]
19_ GinaDAndrea [Info. Not Avail.]
10_ Scott M. Perry [True Freedom]
17_Anita Stewart (Green)
20_ Norm Mickey [Peace & Freedom]
13_Misha Bogatirev [Environmentalist]
27_ Lucifer Samuel Ciccone[Luciferian-Caesarian]
21_ Jay Keniston [Christian]
12_ RhettSmith [First Freedom]
25_ Dan Sonenberg [Info. Not Avail.]
15_Ralph Beach [Libertarian]
16_ Larry Carter Center [Disabled]
24_David Palmer [Info. Not Avail.]
_2__ Miss Joy Waymire [Decline toState]
22_ Cornelius F. Brantley, Jr. [Multi-Party USA]
11_TomHolt [Info. Not Avail.]
18_ Jim Mueller [Info. Not Avail.]
* * *
June Roldan’s marked eballot cast on 6/30/2013
1__ Anita Stewart
2___Anna Trevorrow
3___ Benjamin Meiklejohn
* * *
Scott M. Perry’s SPOILED eballot cast on 6/16/2013
_1__ Scott M. Perry [True Freedom)
__2_ Daniel Stromgren [People’s Liberation]
_3__ Jim Doyle [Republican]
_4__ Benjamin Meiklejohn [Green Independent]
_6__ Ralph Beach [Libertarian]
_7_ Jay Keniston [Ozark]
_9__ Cornelius F. Brantley, Jr. [Multi-Party USA]
_8__Rhett Smith [First Freedom]
* * *
Tiffany Briscoe [Green Tea-Rainbow] elects her own name on 6/8/2013
1 Tiffany Briscoe [Green Tea-Rainbow]
***
Does the Info. Not Avail. party have a website? I’d like to check out their platform.
And does the USA Parliament have a Pizza Ministry?
Thanks in advance
TruFoe wrote;
“Does the Info. Not Avail. party have a website? I’d like to check out their platform.”
Yes, their website’s URL is:
http://www.usparliament.org
Their Unity Platform URL is:
http://www.usparliament.org/platform.php
“And does the USA Parliament have a Pizza Ministry?”
The 60 Full Ministers are similar in name to the USA government’s “real” 84 departments. There is no Pizza Ministry although there is a Pizza Party and we are united with them.
We’ve offer to bring the pizza many times but our phone calls and emails remain unanswered.
“Thanks in advance”
You’re welcome.
Top Two California Leaders in Lose Column
Top California Green and Libertarian Party leaders for city council are in the losing column.
Former Libertarian California State Chair Aaron Starr [Libertarian] lost Oxnard city council with approximately 13.71% (#4 of seven) of the vote. Current Green Party California State Spokesperson Mike Feinstein [Green] lost Santa Monica city council with less than 6.26% (#8 of 14) of the vote.
Please be serious, would you?
When is the Pizza Party?
I’m in.