Lee Drutman has this article at VOX, advocating ranked choice voting for U.S. presidential elections.
See here for information about Drutman. Thanks to June Genis for the VOX link.
Lee Drutman has this article at VOX, advocating ranked choice voting for U.S. presidential elections.
See here for information about Drutman. Thanks to June Genis for the VOX link.
We’re not abolishing the Electoral College, so his article is moot. But, I would consider RCV for presidential electors within single presidential elector districts. I think that is a fair compromise.
Also, America is a republic, not a democracy, so Mr. Drutman loses credibility right from the get go.
@Jeff Becker… A republic IS a form of democracy. We’re a representative democracy. We elect representatives democratically, who then go off to Washington to vote on our behalf in a democratic process.
And ending the electoral college would not solve the issues of the minority controlling the majority in an election. Think about this… nearly 53% of Americans voted for a social moderate or social liberal… yet 47% of people voted for a social authoritarian and won. That was because of the electoral college, yes… but Clinton didn’t get a majority of the vote either. So why should her 48% be assumed to be any more valid than Trumps 46% as the “will of the people”? RCV would likely see Trumps and Clinton’s first round vote a lot lower, and it’s extremely plausible the final round of tallying would have been between Stein and Johnson.
The original meaning of “Republic” was a nation without a monarch. Venice was a republic in middle of the last millenium, and Greece and Rome were republics in the BC era.
The USA from Day ONE on 4 July 1776 has been one more EVIL and VICIOUS ANTI-Democracy minority rule gerrymander OLIGARCHY —-
1/2 or less [plurality] votes x 1/2 [bare majority] rigged packed/cracked gerrymander areas = 1/4 or less CONTROL.
Much, much, much worse primary math since 1890
— extremist special interest gang nominations
— about 5-15 percent REAL minority rule.
Thus the pending Civil WAR II
— between the top RED communist gerrymander oligarchs vs the top fascist gerrymander oligarchs.
—-
Democracy Math — via PROPORTIONAL REPRESENTATION
Nonexact-
Party Members = Total Members x Party Votes / Total Votes
Exact-
Voting Power of Party Members = Party Votes
Both Majority Rule [DEMOCRACY] and Minority Representation.
—
NONPARTISAN AppV for exec/judic offices.
—
Both PR and AppV pending Condorcet — RCV done correctly.
—
Divide the USA NOW. See which left/right regimes can survive.
2019-2020 USA GOVT MINORITY RULE GERRYMANDER MATH, 22 MAR 2019
GERRYMANDER LOWLITES MINI SUMMARY —
A. 30.3 PERCENT OF THE VOTERS ELECTED 218 D USA REPS OF 435 TOTAL IN 2018.
B. 19.2 PERCENT OF THE VOTERS ELECTED 50 R USA SENATORS OF 100 TOTAL IN 2014-2018.
C. 25.6 PERCENT OF THE VOTERS ELECTED R PREZ TRUMP IN 2016 [272 of 538 ECV — 28 States]
—
ALL 99 houses in the 50 State legislatures are mini-copies of the USA H Reps.
— with many local regime gerrymander systems – in whole or part.
The 2019-2020 CRISIS has been building since Day 1 and esp. since the Nov 1932 election in Great Depression I [1929-1941].
Jeff: First, with the old “we’re a republic not a democracy” trope? Puhleeze.
Second, given that the electoral college is on a state basis, some state could require an absolute majority, not a plurality, for its electors. Then, the question of what route to get to that is not moot.
==
That said, contra Drutman, while I support RCV for all lesser offices, if we did abolish the EC, I would want a direct second-round runoff for president.
When people use the word “democracy” as a noun instead of a verb (voting process), they are insinuating a pure democracy of which the Framers definitely spoke against. See Federalist 10: Democratic Republic vs. Pure Democracy: http://teachingamericanhistory.org/lessonplans/fed10/ Pure democracy is mob rule and we are fast heading towards it aided and abetted by sloppy language.
LAW making —
Democracy — majority rule — voting on some issues/ballot questions.
Oligarchy — minority rule – 2 or more, less than a majority
Monarchy — minority rule – ONE — on the BIG issues — KILLERS Napoleon, Stalin, Hitler, etc.
Monarchs always have some help — military / secret police — de facto oligarchy.
—-
LAW enforcement —
Same 3 types but almost always an oligarchy — smaller – peace times (cops and courts), larger – war times.
Circa 12 million direct in USA military in WW II – perhaps 50-70 million more in military production — to destroy the Axis Powers regimes.
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PR and AppV
Election Amdts since 1-10 Amdts –
12
14-2
15
17
19
20
22
23
24
26
— mere 10 of 17 since 1-10 Amdts.
—
Uniform definition of Elector-Voter in ALL of USA.
Ballot access- Nom Pets/filing fees
PR and AppV [later Condorcet]
—-
Really difficult for ANTI-Democracy Stone Age so-called brains.
Again, WRONG, Jeff.
We are insinuating no such thing.
Go read some Wittgenstein and learn how everyday language usage exists from a philosophy of language POV.
Early Brit colonies —
ALL the male adults met and chose new top leaders.
How many *mob* scenes ???
With population growth — gerrymander area systems took over — inherited from ye olde England.
Example – 1607 VA, gerrymander House of Burgesses [colony Reps] in 1618.
Mere 400 plus years of gerrymanders in VA.
It shows. VA quite ready to blow up in a race WAR – as in NC, GA, FL, TX, IL, MI, etc.
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PR and AppV
In the future all Prez candidates will be bringing and the United Coalition USA will be showing everyone how it gets done for the first time.
Be a part of pure proportional representation (PPR) in 2020 by becoming an Elector on the national Libertarian Party’s 538-member PPR Elector College starting with CA L.P. state chair and vice chair on April 5th to 7th in Concord California.
Would Presidential Electors cast fractional proportional votes for candidates for President and Vice President under proportional popular vote systems? Or are these simply a device to abolish Presidential Electors without a constitutional amendment?
If the total number of Presidential Electors were increased by a factor of at least 6, then a proportional distribution of persons elected to be Presidential Electors could make some sense, but with only 538 Electors the fractional threshold to elect and Elector is too high.
Regardless, the Constitution would still have to be amended to strip Electors of the their independence to vote autonomously much as ordinary voters have been shackled by ballot access censorship.
SocraticGadfly –
No, Jeff Becker is absolutely right. We live in a democracy dammit. And to people like me who believe in democracy that means a pure democracy. Definitely not a republic.
It also means we have to put a shitload more seats into the Senate chamber and the House chamber so that we can all be present for roll calls.
Or maybe benches would be more practical.
But the great thing about a moving to a pure democracy is that I won’t need to make up some phony excuse for not going to work, because my boss will be in Washington voting with me.
Thanks for pointing out the difference between a democracy and republic, Jeff.
The Prez/VP Electoral College was a last minute late DARK AGE scheme at the top secret 1787 Fed Convention slammed together by the small and slave State oligarchs — a variant machination of the rotted system for picking kings in Poland in 1787.
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How many *democracy* regimes survive by having voters directly elect top executive officers ??
States ??? Locals ???
——
Uniform definition of Elector-Voter in ALL of the USA
PR legis and NON-partisan AppV for exec/judic officers.
For everyone in the “We’re not a democracy! We’re a republic!” crowd, you really need to understand this. Republic and democracy are two different answers to two different questions. They are not mutually exclusive terms. Please consult a dictionary to make sure what these words mean in a modern context.
Also, don’t resort to using centuries-old quotes from famous people who had different definitions for these words than we do now. English is a living language, and words and their meanings do evolve over time.
Like it or not, the US is both a democracy and a republic, just like Germany and France are both. Meanwhile, countries like Canada, Spain, and the UK are also democracies, but they’re not republics. They’re all monarchies.
There’s a surprising number of dictatorial (as in non-democratic) republics in the world. Believe me, you don’t want to live in one of those countries. Think of them before you say the US isn’t a democracy.
RCV in a direct election for President would be far better than having the Electoral College. With the current system, only Democrats and Republicans can realistically become President. Even if we got rid of FPTP and all the onerous ballot access laws specifically designed to stifle competition, we would still have a dominant two party system because of the Electoral College.
This is because, even though the Electoral College encourages majority victories, it does so while discouraging third parties. RCV would also encourage majority victories, but without discouraging third parties. Plus, since the Presidency is clearly the most sought after office, no one wanting to be President would be compelled to only seek other high-level offices (in hopes of one day being President) under the banner of the establishment parties.
This is one of the many reasons why the Electoral College is horrible and should be abolished and replaced with nationwide RCV. Sure, this would mean likely not knowing immediately who won the election before bedtime on Election Night, but the desire for such instant gratification would be a lousy reason to be against RCV. Good things sometimes take a little time and patience if they’re to be done right.
SCOTUS and monarch/TYRANT fans IN THE GERRYMANDER CONGRESS have made each Prez into a MONSTER.
See incumbent example.