Two former Constitution Party leaders who have left the Constitution Party have formed a new national party called the Life & Liberty Party. The national chair is J. R. Myers of Alaska, and the vice-chair is Lori Stacey of South Dakota. The Life & Liberty Party recently completed its Arkansas petition for presidential status, and the Arkansas Secretary of State has said it has enough valid signatures. That petition requires 1,000 signatures. Thanks to Independent Political Report for this news.
Which has more factions/fractions —
leftists or rightists ???
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PR and Appv and TOTSOP
I’ve become so weary of all these deranged fringe politicians like JR Myers causing pointless divisions over non issues, but at least now the morons have moved into their own party. When will it end? We’ve had America’s Party, Independent American Party, American Independent Party, America First Party, and many more parties nearly identical to each other and the Constitution Party, but the issue is they can’t even come together to at least endorse a presidential candidate. If they all the aforementioned parties plus the disaffiliated CP state parties could have at least united to back Darrell Castle, imagine how much better that campaign could’ve done!
Internal party corruption is a real issue. Why stay and put resources into a failed party? Why name call and hate us for calling the CP to account? Silence and docile followers don’t cut it. Something new is needed, something between the CP & LP.
Really? I have to agree with Mike Trem above. That’s why they call them MINOR parties, folks.
This is so tiresome. I have seen this act before. After the Buchananites took over the Reform Party and turned it into a paleoconservative party, they started the infighting and splintered into the America First Party. Then they got into a fight and separated. Then various groups split off from the CP over things like the Nevada state party having a candidate who was pro-life, but did favor exceptions for rape and incest. Or the the Idaho CP thinking that because they had a primary, whoever won their primary should be on their general election ballot. So I guess Bernie Sanders should have been on the Michigan ballot because he won the 2016 MI Dem Primary?
Basically, if every internal thing is not done exactly the way they want it, they take their ball and go home. The conservative third parties will always fail because of dysfunctional people who can’t work well with others. It is supposed to be about candidates, not internal fighting. These people just want ‘titles’ in their ‘organization’. Grow up and work to make the existing conservative third party stronger and in the image you want it. This whole ‘news’ story makes me yawn.
Mike & Michigan, Interesting because, ironically, that is how Howard Phillips originally put together the CP. As I understand their history, he brought together several existing smaller groups. IMO, and with the right leadership, there is an opportunity to do that again with a new group.
How many MORON extremists can be put on a pin point ???
Meanwhile- ALMOST Civil WAR II —
between *organized* RED communists [aka Donkey gangsters) vs *organized* BLUE fascists [aka Elephant gangsters].
By Nov 2020 ALL govts debt [USA/States/Locals] will be around $ 40 Trillion
40 000 000 000 000 — mere 12 zeroes.
Of that perhaps $ 8-10 Trillion is owed to foreign folks – esp regimes.
About $ 125,000 govt debt per USA person – age zero to 150 plus.
GDP now about $ 20 TRILLION.
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PR and Appv and TOTSOP
It’s interesting that fringe parties on both the right and the left tend to splinter, but for some reason, in spite of some key differences among them, the Libertarian Party has always held together.
LP mini-govs and delusional NO govt anarchists – just enough in common —
S-T-O-P the statist CONTROL FREAK tyrant Donkey communists / Elephant fascists.
,
MAJOR EVIL STATIST ROT since June 1914 — dating to before 4,000 BC.
LP got going due to Vietnam War ROT [about 58,000 USA DEAD and perhaps 2 plus million DEAD in SE Asia] – esp. *last straw* Nixon wage/price controls, etc.
There have been splinter factions from the Libertarian Party, such as the Boston Tea Party, the Personal Choice Party, and the Objectivist Party, to name a few.
The Libertarian Party could probably easily split up into I would say a good 2-5 parties if each faction “took its ball home” and formed a new party. Given the difficulties of forming new parties, getting ballot access, building name recognition, etc…, I do not think that this is the most sound or preferable strategy, but with all of the infighting in the LP, it could happen.
Both Andy and WALTER ZIOBRO make good points. Why the doctrinaire parties of the left and right splinter and then splinter again while a party that is neither left nor right while being both left and right seems to hold together despite some terrific internecine feuds is evident by the very definition of libertarianism.
@ Andy: You bring up a good point: The ability of the Libertarian Party to get organized, obtain and hold ballot access in so many states has created a valuable asset for the party; one that is hard to replicate. AND, an asset that makes it a convenient vehicle for disaffected Republicans>
Here is the Life & Liberty Party’s website: https://lifeandlibertyparty.com/
WALTER ZIOBRO- Sen. Mike Gravel was NOT a Republican.
That is because most of the people in the Libertarian Party are grown up to know if they don’t get their way, they work to try to get it the next time instead of taking their ball and going home (I.E. forming a meaningless splinter party). Do these people think that in the unlikely event that their “part” (most likely a group of 5 people) ever gets off the ground, everyone will agree on every internal issue? Every party, including the major parties, has deep disagreements within it about platform, rules, candidates, etc.
If you can’t tolerate being with people who disagree with you, then just be an independent. Parties aren’t for anti-social people. Often these people want to create these make-believe parties so they can give themselves a title. I treat such titles with as much prestige as me declaring myself Emperor of my living room.
Ultimately, parties exist to nominate candidates for office. The only time you have to coexist with other state parties is when it comes to nominating a presidential ticket. Did these people find Darrell Castle unacceptable? More often than not, people in the right-wing third parties end up splitting up not over candidates (most of these groups don’t usually actually have candidates), but instead fighting over rules and internal affairs. They think they are “showing it to” the CP or whoever they are mad at.
Get ready to suffer the same fate as the America First Party. They wanted to “show it” to the Reform Party. They ended up being a group of people with a web site. Here’s an idea. Instead of wasting time, get all the conservative third party folks with the Constitution Party and work between elections to change internal things. But, focus most of your energy on candidates. I’m not a CP member, I’m just so sick of this crap.
“Did these people find Darrell Castle unacceptable?” – Michigan Voter
I would think not. I agree that despite the best showing ever for a CP presidential nominee he could have done even better. I liked him and voted for him myself.
More libertarians are splintering away than you think. Some have joined the Republicans, or the Constitution (many Johnson haters voted for Castle). A handful have joined the Greens. Still others did indeed start another party.
If another establishment hack is nominated, such as Chafee, you will see another splinter from the purists. All that will remain are ex Republicans, and some commies.
Is this what the American Independent Party will change its name to?
Presidential votes for the splinter factions of the LP that Andy mentioned, and a few others:
2000
5,775 votes, L. Neil Smith, Libertarian Party
2004
946 votes, Charles Jay, Personal Choice Party
2008
531 votes, George Phillies, Libertarian Party
755 votes, Thomas Stevens, Objectivist Party
2,425 votes, Charles Jay, Boston Tea Party
47,512 votes, Ron Paul, LA Taxpayers Party
2012
4,091 votes, Thomas Stevens, Objectivist Party
2016
4 votes, write in, Darryl Perry
That’s all I can come up with. Once splinter party (Arizona) in 2000. Twice Charles Jay. Twice Thomas Stevens. Ron Paul, IIRC, was put on the ballot by some Constitution Party members without Ron Paul’s support, but I guess it counts.
Interesting that the Ron Paul faction was called the Taxpayers Party, because the original name of the Constitution Party was the US Taxpayers Party. I think it still goes by the designation in Michigan.
The AIP in California was affiliated with the CP until the 2008 election, when they nominated Dr. Alan Keyes, who ad run for the CP nomination but lost. That was the beginning of America’s Party.
OK, the point remains. Those vote totals of ‘splinters’ from the LP are incredibly small vote totals. Sure, there will always be some malcontents and contrarians who will always do this kind of thing. But, for the most part, the state parties stay rational. It is these third parties on the right that keep splintering because of personality conflicts or stupid internal conflicts. So back to the point of all this. My previous comments still stand.
Even though I consider J.R. Myers to be a good man that really did work his butt off and try hard to make the CP a better party; only to be screwed over and sabotaged by the CP’s national leadership -the primary reason for all these splinter and breakaway parties on the Right that mostly refuse to work/merge together has to do with two reasons-
Arrogance & ego
I myself tried to unify many of these parties together several years ago -only to fail because many leaders and influential officers of these parties strongly adhere to either one, or both of these 2 things -they are just too set in their ways to be persuaded otherwise.
Unifying every single one of these parties together is a pipe dream; you have a better chance at unifying Ireland, then you will with these parties.
The Life and Liberty could be called a small “l” libertarian party. They are basically pro-life minarchist libertarians. The same could sort of be said about the Constitution Party, but perhaps to a somewhat lesser extent, as some factions of the CP are less libertarian than others, but there are people in the Constitution Party who basically pro-life minarchist libertarians. I would put 2016 CP presidential candidate, Darrell Castle in that category. I met Darrell Castle in person at a debate in Tennessee in 2008, when he was Chuck Baldwin’s VP running mate, and he told me that he’s basically a libertarian, and the main reason he’s not in the Libertarian Party is because the Libertarian Party does not take a hard stance against abortion (depending on how one interprets the Non-Aggression Principle, abortion could be considered to be a violation of the Non-Aggression Principle, and, although there are disagreements about this within the LP, there are certainly some LP members who’d argue that abortion is not inline with the NAP),
Jim illustrated my point above. Breakaway factions of the Libertarian Party have not fared so well thus far.
“More libertarians are splintering away than you think. Some have joined the Republicans, or the Constitution (many Johnson haters voted for Castle). A handful have joined the Greens. Still others did indeed start another party.”
I don’t think that many Libertarians are joining the Constitution Party, or the Green Party. I am still an LP member, but I voted for Darrell Castle of the Constitution Party in 2016, because I think that he was more libertarian than Gary Johnson. If the Constitution Party had its act together more, maybe they would attract more disaffected LP members, but considering that the CP has a lot of problems, and has ballot access in less states than the LP, I doubt they are getting many disaffected Libertarians. I’d wager that most of the Libertarians who leave the LP either go to the Republican Party, or become non-voters.
“If another establishment hack is nominated, such as Chafee, you will see another splinter from the purists. All that will remain are ex Republicans, and some commies.”
I really hope that the LP nominates actual libertarians to be on its 2020 ticket, which will be a first since 2004. If the LP nominates a lame candidate like Chafee, yeah, more libertarians will probably leave the LP, and the LP will devolve into a home for Republican Lite and wacked out left wing SJW’s, even more so than now.
Casual Observer said: “WALTER ZIOBRO- Sen. Mike Gravel was NOT a Republican.”
Yes, and he also was NOT a libertarian. He did not win the nomination either, and of course the guy who did win the nomination that year, Bob Barr, was NOT a libertarian either, and neither was his running mate, Wayne Root.
I think that the point of the person to whom you were responding was that given that the LP is able to get ballot access in all, or most of the states, plus DC, usually, and given the difficulty of obtaining ballot access, this makes it a target for hijackers who are not really interested in the party or philosophy, but who just want to use the party for its ballot access. The cost of hijacking the LP’s national convention by flooding the convention with delegates is much cheaper and a lot less work than what it would take to gain ballot access in all 50 states plus DC as an independent presidential ticket, or than trying to start up a new party and getting it on the ballot in all 50 states plus DC. The LP’s ballot access, and the fact that the party’s platform, if implemented, would destroy the ruling political establishment, also makes the party a target for ruling establishment shills who want to turn the party into controlled opposition.
“2016
4 votes, write in, Darryl Perry”
I don’t think that Perry got many write in votes, but he likely received more than 4. I know that multiple states require write in candidates to file paper work, or to have some paper work filed on their behalf, such as submitting a slate of presidential electors, etc…, by a certain date, in order to have their votes counted. Perry made himself available as a write in candidate AFTER these state deadlines for having one’s write in votes counted had already passed. So he likely got more than 4 write in votes, it is just that those votes were never tallied.
Andy “The Life and Liberty could be called a small “l” libertarian party. They are basically pro-life minarchist libertarians. The same could sort of be said about the Constitution Party, but perhaps to a somewhat lesser extent, as some factions of the CP are less libertarian than others, but there are people in the Constitution Party who basically pro-life minarchist libertarians.”
I’m sure there are people in the Constitution Party who are relatively more libertarian than others. But if you take the ISideWith quiz, the Constitution Party almost perfectly overlaps with the Republican Party on their version of the Nolan Chart. The Constitution Party and the Republicans are even closer than the Greens are to the Peace and Freedom Party (who also overlap, but not as much.)
The Greens, notably, are not particularly close to the Democrats. The Socialists are almost directly to the left, with the Greens moving a tiny bit to the top, towards the Libertarians. The Democratic party, meanwhile, is on the left side, but has sunk halfway towards the Authoritarian quadrant.
The Libertarian Party is way off by itself.
“The Libertarian Party is way off by itself.” – Jim
Which is a GOOD thing!
I have talked quite a few people in the Constitution Party who could be described as being pro-life minarchist libertarians. I’d bet that the ISideWith quiz result to which Jim is referring takes some out dated data that does not accurately take into consideration the CP’s more libertarian wing into consideration. Also, I think it is fair and accurate to say that the CP’s 2008 presidential ticket of Chuck Baldwin/Darrell Castle was more libertarian than the LP’s ticket of Bob Barr/Wayne Root, and that the CP’s ticket 2016 ticket of Darrell Castle/Scott Bradley was more libertarian than the LP’s ticket of Gary Johnson/Bill Weld. The CP’s 2012 candidate for President, Virgil Goode, was not a libertarian, or a constitutionalist, and he was around as bad, or maybe worse, than the LP’s 2012 presidential candidate of Gary Johnson, but I think that the CP’s VP nominee that year, Jim Clymer, was more libertarian than the LP’s VP nominee that year, Jim Gray, and he was more libertarian than Gary Johnson as well.
When it comes to the Life and Liberty Party, who at this point consist of former Constitution Party members, I think they can definitely be described accurately as pro-life minarchist small “l” libertarians.
SOME SORT OF MAGIC SCALES ??? —
0 to 100 pct communist statist
0 to 100 pct fascist statist
0 to 100 pct libertarian
I would generally agree with Andy’s characterization of the Life and Liberty Party as a pro-life minarchist small “l” libertarian.
I think there is a genuine need for a Constitution based political party that can attract broad support. The GOP has abandoned its traditional platform (minimal gov’t and spending) and the Democrats are promoting socialism. The Constitution Party favors Christian members in an increasingly secular America. Libertarians believe in open borders which greatly increases public spending. They also condone free sex which impacts the family – the most important institution. America’s Party places most of its emphasis on pro-life which in my opinion should be a states’ rights issue.
I don’t know about L&L but, I can tell you this much. This great nation was formed by and on the Constitution. And what better way than to be reminded through the party to get us there. The Constitution Party may in fact have been “started” as in name as the “Taxpayer” party. Far too often it is like when we see and get assimilated by sticker shock. Take for example a 10% sticker on a product. Is it 10% off the price, did they add more products, or even worse did they add more to the price? The “Taxpayer” in the predecessor and in some states is defined as such: “The US Tax Payers party of [Michigan] and the Constitution Party opposes any taxes in excess of the minimum needed to fund the enumerated functions of government.” It looks like a rather evil body to me. As well, I would mostly be inclined to agree with the majority of both the Republicans and Democrats have fallen from whatever their platforms were originally stood on. Far too much time has been wasted on frivolous indictments, subpoenas, and other events that otherwise should have been sharpened and keened on much important events
I joined the Libertarian Party back in the 1990’s, when many constitutionalists were joining up, and LP membership reached its zenith around 2001. Over the last five years, it’s clearly made a big, loud shift toward SJW’s and those who threaten to “leave and take their ball” if they even hear freedom of speech being defended when “bigots” are making their views known.
There are factions trying to turn the LP into the Liberal Party of Canada, while others are trying to hook up with the Green Party or some other “fiscally conservative socially liberal” variant, with less and less support for growing into a big tent. The fact that, with approximately 70 million Americans in the Libertarian quadrant of the Nolan Chart, that we’re the only country that can’t get a soft libertarian party up and running. If the Dallas Accord is being openly thrown out, and some are insisting on pushing incredibly unpopular positions like “open borders,” then Libertarian candidates will always be one mass mailer away from obscurity.