On September 29, Colorado Secretary of State Jena Griswold filed this brief on Anderson v Griswold, 2023cv-32577, Denver District Court. This is the lawsuit on whether former President Donald Trump should be on the March 2024 Colorado Republican primary ballot. On page five the Secretary says, “The Secretary agrees that constitutionally ineligible candidates should not be included on a ballot.”
The Secretary of State cites nothing for this statement, and ignores Colorado and national history. In 1972 Colorado put Linda Jenness on its November ballot, and she was only 33 years old at the time. She was the Socialist Workers Party presidential candidate that year and she made no secret of her age.
The only states that have never printed the name of an ineligible presidential or vice-presidential candidate on the general election ballot are Alaska, Arizona, Hawaii, and Oklahoma. In 1892, all states in the union at that time printed the name of the Prohibition Party vice-presidential candidate on the ballot, and he was only age 33 and campaigned making frequent mention of his age. The only 1892 exception was South Dakota, the only state in which the Prohibition Party failed to get on the ballot that year. However in 1972, South Dakota printed Linda Jenness’ name on the ballot.
As to the states that weren’t yet in the union in 1892, Utah printed Eugene Puryear, the name of the Party for Socialism & Liberation’s vice-presidential candidate in 2008 and he was under-age. New Mexico printed Linda Jenness’ name on the ballot in 1972.
Past mistakes are not an excuse to do the wrong thing in the present.
Trump is not qualified under the Constitution to run for POTUS.
Trump must be kept off the ballot.
PUTTING UN-QUALIFIED CANDS ON BALLOTS =
ONE MORE 14-2 VIOLATION
RIGHT TO VOTE TOTALLY ABRIDGED = NULL AND VOID FOR SUCH CANDS
—
ALL CANDS – BE USA CITIZENS 18 PLUS YRS OLDE REGISTERED ELECTORS DURING OFFICE TERM – PERIOD.
Zapper, why do you think he’s not qualified to serve as president?
Then, why do you think he’s not qualified to have his electors placed on the ballot?
Why do you think those past cases were wrong?
Finally, what do you think will happen in this country if Trump is kept off the ballot?
Trump is qualified. Trump will be on the ballot. Trump will win yet again. This time it won’t be close enough for our enemies and traitors to steal. Their senile puppet will at long last be deposed. Trump will be President again. Amen!
@RW,
Which states had government-printed ballots in 1892, and of those how many printed the presidential candidates name rather than of electors?
Jim,
In a real sense though, that only serves to show why this is garbage. Even if a presidential candidate is inelligible, their electors are obviously still eligible to be electors, and they are the ones who are actually being elected. Electors can always change their vote, and the SCOTUS will surely overrule Chiafalo and Baca’s cases if the Republicans need to make a last minute substitution and states give them grief about it.
Trump and his co-conspirators mounted an insurrection with the intent of stealing a presidential election. Trump and many of his co-conspirators are not qualified to hold office in the US under the 14th Amendment.
It is clear that Trump should not be allowed on Primary ballots nor on the General Election ballots for any office.
A Supreme Court ruling to disqualify Trump would cause some screaming from his deluded MAGA cult members, but it would actually be a relief for most Republican office holders. The nomination process would proceed without Trump, many MAGA cult members would protest and stay out of the contest. The Republicans could then focus on nominating someone who is actually sane enough and intelligent enough to hold office. They might even choose someone who can beat Joe Biden.
If Trump were allowed to run and lose again to Joe Biden – which is inevitable, there could be another attempted coup by Trump and his MAGA cult. The country will suffer extreme violence.
If Trump is kept off the ballot because of his 2020/2021 coup attempt, his MAGA cult will not be able to mount a coup attempt. There may be a few who resort to violence, but most will not because they know they would end up dead or in prison.
Trump, in addition to being a seditionist, in addition to being charged with 91 felonies – 5 indictments in 4 jurisdictions, in addition to the fact that he is destined to be convicted and serve long prison sentences … Trump is severely mentally ill, has a sub-par IQ, is ignorant about the issues, barely has a 4th grade educational level, and he has betrayed the United States by revealing military secrets to our enemies.
Even if he gets on the ballot, Donald John Trump cannot win the election and he is going to end up in prison.
As to placing Trump electors on the ballot: Many states no longer list electors and Presidential Elections are no longer thought of as elections to choose electors. Trump doesn’t qualify, so his name cannot be printed on the ballot and he cannot have electors on the ballot under his name. The Republicans will be able to choose a reasonable, normal candidate. That candidate will be able to choose rational electors who will not switch to a mentally-ill, maniacal, solipsistic, authoritarian, fool.
With Trump precluded from running for POTUS, the US will be able to return to sanity.
With Trump on the ballot, there will be another attempted coup and violence as a result of his inevitable loss to Joe Biden in November of 2024.
“It is clear that Trump should not be allowed on Primary ballots nor on the General Election ballots for any office.”
There isn’t a single clause in the Constitution to support that statement.
Section 3 Disqualification from Holding Office
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
It’s absolutely clear.
Trump is not qualified to run for any office in the United States under the US Constitution.
14-3 DERIVED FROM 1862 ACT SECS 2 AND 3
REQUIRING A CRIMINAL CONVICTION FOR INSURRECTION / REBELLION
Nothing in section 3 of the 14th Amendment requires a criminal conviction.
It has already been used to remove and prevent individuals from holding and running for office in the US for scores of individuals with no criminal conviction.
SCOTUS WILL CLEAR UP THE 14-3 MESS ASAP ???
Richard, Jenness got thirty thousand votes in Arizona. Were they write-ins?
Is Zapper actually Robert K Stock?
Bob: No Zapper is not me. I have no objection to Donald Trump running again. I wouldn’t vote for him, but there is no reason for him not to be on the ballot.
Bob: I have never used a pseudonym. I only comment under my own name.
Zapper posted:
“Section 3 Disqualification from Holding Office
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.”
Clearly, you have not read what it actually says. Several points need to be noted:
1. The section does not even mention President, only Presidential ELECTORS. While some hold that “office” includes President, that is indeterminate. Why was President not specified, when other federal offices were?
2. In any event, the section does not bar anyone from running for any office, or even getting elected, only holding the office. It’s possible that someone could run, and get elected, who, being actually disqualified under this section, could have that disqualification removed by Congress.
3. Further, the section does not specify how it is determined that anyone is disqualified under the section. IMO, one cannot be disqualified unless one has been actually convicted. All suspects are innocent until proven guilty.
DOES A USA PREZ HOLD ANY ***CIVIL*** OR ***MILITARY***. ***OFFICE*** ???
DOES 1 + 1 = 2
OK TO BE IN A LOCAL OFFICE- SUCH AS A MAYOR OF THE LARGEST CITY IN A STATE AND BE A TOTAL KILLER REBEL ???
Gato, the Socialist Workers Party had independent presidential electors on the Arizona ballot with the label “Socialist Workers”. The ballots did not actually mention Linda Jenness. I went in the basement and looked at that 1972 Arizona ballot just to make sure. The reason she got so many votes in Arizona for her electors is that two counties put her candidates for presidential elector on a separate page of the ballot booklet and said, “Vote for six.” So voters who had already made a choice for president on the preceding page thought, oh well, it says here to vote for six, so they went ahead and voted for the SWP electors even though they had already voted for six other presidential electors by their act of voting for Nixon, McGovern, or Schmitz.
DOES RW HAVE THE FIRST BALLOT IN THE BAN ARCHIVES ???
ROCK / STONE / DRIED MUD / WOOD / PAPER / METAL / ANIMAL SKIN PARTS / ETC ???
ANY STORING OF E- BALLOTS FOR MORE THAN 4 YEARS ???
And further, the right to vote implicitly means the right to vote for ANYONE. Now, while the state may place reasonable limits on the number of candidates who appear on official ballots, it may NEVER deprive voters of the right to cast a write-in vote.
Nothing that zapper claims is even remotely true.
Every single one of its ridiculous arguments have been dismantled repeatedly in past threads here, which I don’t feel like going over yet again at this time.
1) It is absolutely clear that All offices in the United States are covered under Section 3, as it explicitly states: ” … any office, civil or military, under the United States, …”
The fact that some are enumerated doesn’t preclude others. Presidential Electors are included specifically because they are “electors” and may not be included as “offices.”
2) It is clear that anyone not eligible to hold the office being sought under the Federal Constitution and also under State Constitutions can be barred from being placed on the ballot. In fact, this has happened frequently in US elections and upheld by the courts.
3) Candidates who do not qualify to run for any office under Federal or State Constitutions or Law can be removed or prevented from being included on the ballot according to the rules in each state. In some states the Secretary of State or an elections office can remove or refuse to list the unqualified candidate. Others have alternate procedures. It is up to the body so empowered to determine whether any prospective candidate is disallowed to run under this section. As always, the losing party can appeal to the courts.
In Minnesota, there is a direct procedure that goes – as already filed in the case of Donald John Trump – straight to the Minnesota Supreme Court. Under Minnesota Law the MN Supreme Court has the authority to determine that Trump is not qualified to run and to order that he not be placed on the ballot. Should the court so rule, Trump’s only recourse will be to appeal. If the court rules in favor of Trump, the complaining parties can appeal. So, this case WILL be decided by first by the Minnesota Supreme Court; it will then go before the US Supreme Court.
It is clear that the 14th Amendment applies to Donald John Trump.
It is clear that he engaged in an insurrection against the United States.
It is clear that each State has a governing body, law, or procedure that can disallow Trump from appearing on ballots in that State.
The fact that voters can – as in are physically able to – write in Mickey Mouse for President on their ballots doesn’t mean that such votes count as anything but spoiled ballots. (Mickey would be more qualified than Trump. He is more than 35 years old, has spent more than 14 years “living” in the US, and he has never engaged in an insurrection against the US.)
These are the facts.
If the US Supreme Court rules according to the conservative principles they espouse, they will vote to disallow Donald John Trump from running for any political office now or in the future.
None of these things are clear, or even true.
Donald John Trump has engaged in an attempted coup against the United States, planned and led an insurrection that culminated with an assault on the US Capitol in his attempt to subvert the electoral process of the United States, currently avows his intent to continue his insurrection and to engage in further insurrections if he is not installed as dictator in any other fashion, and commands a deluded cult intent on violence to support his continuing treasonous insurrection against the United States, Trump must be barred from seeking any office in the future.
The only way to insure free elections in the future and to insure the survival of the United States is to bar Donald John Trump from appearing on ballots in any election now and in the future.
Should Trump be allowed on the ballot, he will lose badly to Joe Biden, whereupon he and his supporters WILL attempt another coup with an even more violent, deadly, and protracted attack on the government and people of the United States.
The Justices of the US Supreme Court have a duty to ensure the survival of the United States.
They have sworn an oath that would require them to issue an order that Donald John Trump is a Domestic enemy of the United States and under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, he is not qualified to hold office and therefore not qualified to run or to be placed on the ballot to run for POTUS.
“I, _________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.”
Shortening your name doesn’t make your nonsensical arguments magically make sense. Read prior discussions on this site as to why you are wrong in each and every particular.
Porcus Agricola on October 10, 2023 at 11:29 am said:
“I am a member of the MAGA cult and I do not consider or even look at facts. I am incapable of doing so. I will just declare that ‘None of these things are clear, or even true.’ because I have no basis or ability to read or understand what has been proven – and I just don’t want to know anything about reality.” – Porcus Agricola
So Porcus:
You deny that there is a case before the Minnesota Supreme Court that under Minnesota Law can prevent Donald John Trump from appearing on the ballot.
You deny that Minnesota State Law gives the MN Supreme Court the power and duty to do so.
You deny that the NM Supreme Court can rule to preclude Trump from appearing on the ballot based on Section 3 of the 14th Amendment.
You deny that whoever loses this case has the right and that they will almost certainly appeal to the US Supreme Court.
You deny that the US Supreme Court will make the final decision .
You, Porcus, are a fool.
Lying about what I said doesn’t get you any closer to the truth, fool.
Meanwhile, in the real world:
POLITICS
Minnesota Supreme Court sets date for Trump ballot case
The High Court will hear arguments Nov. 2 in a legal action designed to keep the former president off the state’s 2024 ballots.
The real world isn’t something you’re qualified to discuss. All of these cases will be ultimately dismissed as errant nonsense by the Supreme Court, as they should be. See numerous past discussions on this site as to why.
Past discussions on this site did not include any members of the US Supreme Court, nor any former clerks to the US Supreme Court, nor any members of the MN Supreme Court, nor the Colorado Secretary of State who also agrees that Trump can be kept off the ballot.
There is no need to refer to 3-year-old children playing doctor on how to perform neurosurgery.
You are a moron if you think the Supreme Court will agree with you. Past discussions on this site dismantled your claims. The rest will play out as it should.
14-3 AMDT – ENGAGED IN INSURRECTION OR REBELLION
AS DETERMINED BY EXACTLY WHO ???
A BAN POSTER ??? – ESP A TROLL MORON POSTER ???
RANDOM VOTER IN THE USA ???
CONLAW PROF ON DRUGS ???
TV MEDIA HACK TRYING FOR HIGHER RATINGS ???
5 YEAR OLD KID PLAYING WITH A PET DOG/CAT???
ETC ???
—
OR A 6 AMDT IMPARTIAL JURY ??? DUH.
Rare event: AZ is right on a given point. Don’t get used to it.
Trump told supporters to demonstrate peacefully and legally. The overwhelming majority did. When a small minority didn’t, he told them to stop. Their mini riot was well short of an insurrection, but even if it had been an insurrection, Trump was far from being involved. In fact in the lead up to that day TRUMP offered to deploy 10,000 national guard to guard the capitol and Pelosi said the optics would be bad.
I’m willing to make a cash bet that
1) Trump will be the GOP nominee and
2) Will not be kept off general election ballots on any 14-3 grounds
Any takers? How much would you like to bet?
People like zapper are retarded and live in a fantasy world. I know from experience that it’s not worth engaging with such brain dead people.
You have a point.
WHICH TROLL MORON HAS USED THE MOST FAKE NAMES SINCE BAN STATED ???
ESP SINCE THE 2020 ELECTION
YOU. DUH.
Robert K Stock?
AZ has at least two known fake names. Everything else is speculative.
@Jim Riley: I found a publication on Wikisource which said that 32 states (out of 44) had adopted the Australian (i.e. government-printed) ballot going into the 1892 election.
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/A_History_of_the_Australian_Ballot_System_in_the_United_States/Chapter_III
I don’t have information about whether those states printed the candidates’ names on the electors’ names on their ballots.
@JK,
Because Texas adopted the Australian ballot in 1905, I must have though it was typical, rather than a latecomer.
That source on adoption of the Australian Ballot is excellent. It was a PhD dissertation from 1917, so it is nearly contemporaneous with the event, but long enough after to put it in context.
I doubt many states had switched to having presidential candidates on the ballot in 1892. Before there was a government-printed ballot, there was likely no way to inform election officials that X, Y, and Z were the “Republican electors” or “Cleveland electors”, etc. Parties did print ballots with their elector candidates listed.
Voters could vote for individual elector candidates, and they did receive different number of votes. It is a convention that tabulated the number of votes for a presidential candidate, were the same as the lead candidate for the party (or the average vote for electors).
A legalistic interpretation would be that the presidential candidates are a campaign slogan, “If elected as presidential elector, I will vote for Grover Cleveland.”
Only later would the presidential candidates be added, with perhaps an option to vote for the entire slate or individual candidates.
I think it was only in the last election or two that all states had removed the name of the elector candidates from their ballots. This is a practical development. Parties don’t want you to know that you are voting for electors.
@GDP,
In 1972 in Arizona, elector candidates were nominated as individuals, rather than as a slate. For established parties, they were chosen in the primary. Candidates would be listed, along with instructions to vote for not more than 6. The Democrats and Republicans arranged so that only 6 candidates would run in their primary so that there was no choice.
Independent elector candidates had to petition as individuals. The Socialist Workers had to circulate 6 petitions. But just because circuators carried 6 petitions, and voters signed 6 petitions, does not automatically make them a slate (in a legal sense).
Elections officials knew how to format a ballot so that individual electors could be voted on – since that was how ballots were formatted for the primary.
In 1972, most counties formatted their ballot as if the Socialist Workers elector candidates were a slate running against the Republican and Democratic and American Independent electors.
But two counties placed the Socialist Worker candidates in a separate section of the ballot, with instructions to vote for not more than 6.
In those two counties many voters voted in both sections, voting for one of Nixon, McGovern, and Schmitz; and voting for up to 6 Socialist Workers electors. They did not all get the same number of votes, and Jenness’ name did not appear on the ballot.
The evil retards of Massachusetts were the first US state to adopt the commie-fascist Australian ballot in 1888.
Late adopters of the cursed Australian ballot cooked up in the real down under bowels of hell included Georgia in 1922 and South Carolina in 1950. This is one of many ways in which South Carolina is our greatest State.