1. The internal rules stuff is blatantly unconstitutional.

   See the Eu case in the Supremes

   1. Public nomination stuff
   versus
   2. internal party hack clubby stuff — choosing party hack clubby officers, etc. — 1st Amdt clubby stuff.

   NO govt control over 2 — EXCEPT if the clubby party hack officers are involved in public office nominations — i.e. filling candidate vacancies (due to deaths, disqualification, etc) at public elections.

   I.E. one person – one vote stuff in such nominations.

2. But if a party wants to have its organizational rules embedded in a state election code, that isn’t unconstitutional. It’s similar to the lawsuits over who may vote in a party’s primaries. If the scheme the party wants matches the election code, then the election code on that point isn’t unconstitutional.

3. And then there are long term politicians whom seem to be able to talk out of both sides of their mouth at once.

   Hey Bible Beater Lawyer Realtor Diane Templin of North County Sandy Ego County: you have PREVIOUSLY been endorsed by both factions! Quit sitting on the fence! Whose side are you on ??????

   Don’t wanna reply on line ?????? Call me [locally!] or mail that SASE post card you have! [Hmmmmmmmmmm what if you are abandoned by BOTH SIDES ????????????]

4. As of Wednesday March 17th: Diane Templin is the only candidate for State Attorney General, and it is not clear which side she is on.

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6. Diane and Robert are on our side, after all, their candidacy is listed on the pro-CP website.

7. Cadet Captain Cody Quirk should read CARE FULLY before typing ???????????? Diane and Robert are rumored to be lobbying BOTH sites. Oh, Did I not mention ‘fence sitting’ and that Diane did not/ has not returned my query ????

   If I was oblique and not obvious, I apologize!

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9. Don Lake where did you get your information that Diane and Robert are playing both sides.

10. # 2 Clubby internal party hack stuff is PRIVATE stuff — not to be dictated by the STATE.

    The Electors in each party hack group are a subgroup of ALL PUBLIC Electors — in PUBLIC nominations for PUBLIC offices.

    Private vs. Public.

    Any laws dictating the internal clubby stuff for churchs, business associations, etc. etc. ???

11. If the CP has so much support can’t those members sign a petition and simply get the CP registered as an official party? Or are the numbers that low as indicated by the last presidential vote totals in 2008.

12. Allen- in CA, it takes over 80,000+ signatures for them to do so. So that’s pretty much impossible to do.

13. Someday this will be resolved in California. For now it is up to the other 49 states to build up the Constitution Party…

14. Allen Says:
    March 17th, 2010 at 10:31 pm
    If the CP has so much support can’t those members sign a petition and simply get the CP registered as an official party? Or are the numbers that low as indicated by the last presidential vote totals in 2008.

    Allen,

    Do you have any idea what is entailed in California to get a new party on the ballot? Maybe you don’t, but it is absolutely no picnic and it would probably entail an expenditure of millions of dollars. Besides, the AIP was a charter state affiliate of the Constitution Party in 1992 and the vast majority of AIP activists wish it to remain affiliated with the CP. Furthermore, people like myself [I have been active in the AIP since 1971, even though I currently live and work in Pennsylvania] don’t take kindly to the party we have worked hard to build and preserve for 40 years being hijacked by a small handful of interlopers who were lucky enough in 2008 to hoodwink the California Secretary of State into believing that they were the legitimately elected party officers.

    In any event, the function of the officers of the state party is strictly ministerial and for the stated term of their office only. A political party, particularly in California, is NOT a private club. The party belongs to the people who are registered in the party, not any officers. One purpose of the California Elections Code is, and should be, to protect the rights of the voters of the state and the participatory rights of the registered membership of the party from any group that would try to install itself as some sort of dictatorship.

    In 1970, the AIP primary was a brutal affair with hundreds of candidates running on both sides. In the end, the primary results completely and overwhelmingly vindicated the very organization from which the current Constitution Party loyal so-called “faction” derives. 40 years later the AIP primary will again resolve its internal problems, in the same way and with the same result.

    From the sublime to the ridiculous, I have even heard a certain proponent of the Robinson group refer to the CP supporters as “hijackers.” In addition to not being very original, it is hysterically funny! Past AIP state chairmen, Fred Barber, Gary Odom, Jim Griffin, Nathan Johnson, Merton Short, Nancy Shearer and Jim King have all endorsed Chelene Nightingale’s candidacy. Beyond these past chairmen, Chelene Nightingale is supported by virtually all of the past officers and activists of the American Independent Party of the last 40 years. Robinson’s group couldn’t be expected to know this however, because they really don’t know any of them.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with a contest; in fact, that’s what politics is all about. However I would challenge a certain “friend” of mine, who has been very busy on the Internet spreading disinformation under a variety of names, to spend his time actually promoting the merits of his own candidates and cause, rather spending so much time spreading disinformation, about his opponents and people he apparently doesn’t like.

    One example was his contention that Chelene Nightingale was “redflagged” by the various registrars of voters offices and was “not qualified” to run for Governor because she “was not registered in the party long enough, blah, blah, blah.” Well, surprise: She qualified, securing far,far more In Lieu of Filing Fee signatures than were required or that any other candidate for Governor submitted. She’s in. She’s on the ballot. Nobody at the County or State level gave her any problem at all because, of course, she was clearly qualified all along. But, gee, I haven’t seen any apology from the individual who was spreading the disinformation that she “could not qualify” and “would not qualify” for the ballot. I don’t think I will hold my breath.

    Finaly, hands off Robert Lauten and Diane Templin. They are both fine individuals and patriots who make great representative candidates for the AIP and they don’t deserved to be harrassed about “what side they are on.” Historically they have proven themselves to be on the side of the American Independent Party and the people of California. Those of us who support the Constitution Party are very pleased to endorse their respective candidacies. California would be far better off if they were both elected to office.

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16. rotalu laukumi bērniem

17. Gary well represents the Shearer tradition of smart leadership – he has facts and passion. I hope sane and seasoned politicos from the nat’l CP help out their comrades in the June primary – maybe Howie Phillips and Chuck Baldwin et al can do direct mail and help organize a good turnout. I’m sooo tired of seeing Bill Shearer’s life-long dedication to create and perpetuate the AIP trampled and kicked aside by know-nothings. Politics should not be left to people who run at full speed with one shoe nailed to the floor.

18. This is my first time here and this post was indeed thought provoking. I find there is a gap between the no. of readers and the comments . I personally think that even though I ask questions not many come fwd to answer. And believe you me, my questions are not ‘Big Bang theory’ types.

19. Lu – For clarity of the current situation of the AIP and backround for this thread/post you can go to TheCorruptionOfAlanKeyes.blogspot.com.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

20. TO: Gary Odem,

    This is a refutation to your statement in post #14, viz., “The vast majority of the AIP activists wish to remain with the CP”. First, the American Independent Party is not affliated with the Constitution Party. The
    AIP State Central Committee affiliated with the America’s
    Independent Party of Fenton, Michigan on June 27, 2008.
    As of January 5, 2010, the number of electors in the AIP
    was 382,380. By today it is several thousand higher.
    Question: How many persons from California are affliated
    with the CP in addition to Larry Breazeale? Membership
    in the CP could be a gronds for removal from the AIP State Central Committee. The last time I check in Orange County, CA only 5 persons gave Constitution Party as their party affliation on their registration
    to vote form. Where is this “vast majority”?

    You further state the “officers of the state party” are “for stated term of their office only”. To bad James King did not agree with you on that point. In KING v. BOWEN in 2008, King took the view that Chairman
    Edward Noonan was not elected to a full two year term
    on September 3, 2006. He also took the view that the
    city of Rancho Cordova was not in Sacramento. The
    California Election Code requires all conventions and
    the organizing meeting of the State Central Committee
    for the American Independent Party be in Sacramento.
    King limited his view that Sacramento was only its city
    limits. My view is that it includes the county limits.
    What is your view on the limits of Sacramento? Reason,
    after talking with the leadership of Sacramento County
    AIP (host county)they do not want to limit their search
    for a convention site to just the city limits.

    I am thinking of doing a mailing to the entire list of
    AIP Electors in that part of Sacramento County, external
    of the Sacramento City limits, explaining to those voters what James King belief is on the subject of excluding territory beyond the city limits of Sacramento
    (but within the County limits of Sacramento} just prior
    to the November, 2010 election cycle. There are many laws and regulations in California that make reference to the term “Sacramento” without stating it is the city or county.

    I recall only one issue on “flagging” and that only related to the Los Angeles County Registrar of Voters as it related to Chelene Nightingale. She was “flagged”
    by the Los Angeles County Registrar of Voters because
    when she took out her signatures in lieu petition in
    Los Angeles County she was not in the party for the full
    year.

    We have not finished the review of the signatures in lieu for Nightingale in all the counties they were collected in. For example John Baldwin turned in 14
    signatures for Chelene Nightingale in San Bernadino
    County. Two of those we caught and were rejected.
    This lowered after first review the by two, down to the
    number 12. Yet John Baldwin claimed on 4 of the remaining 12 that he started collection signatures
    on January 1, 2010. This could reduce the number by
    4 and lower the number down to 8 signatures. On one of
    the remaining signatures the start of San Bernadino was
    written and then crossed out with the city of Victorville in its place. That could reduce the number
    down to 7. Bottom line even her campaign manager can
    not collect signature correctly. Nightingale was not clearly quilified all along. She joined the party in 2009. One has to be in the party for one year according
    to the California Election Code. She was not at the time she took out her signature in lieu. That was why
    the Register of Votes placed a flag on he master form for signature in lieu. After the year ended they removed the flag.

    There is one thing we both agree on is Robert Lauten and
    Diane Templin. I voted for Diane Templin when I was still a Republican. I signed the signatures in lieu
    petition from Robert Lauten race for Treasurer.

    The bottom line is the American Independent Party has
    had no connection with the Constitution Party since
    June 27, 2008, when the State Central Committee of the
    American Independent Party voted its national affliation as the America’s Independent Party of Fenton, Michigan.

    I only do posts in my own name.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party; Chairman, Orange County Central Committee of the American Independent Party; Executive Committeeman, America’s Independent Party (national
    affliate of the American Independent Party).

21. To: Richard Winger,

    Only some of internal rules of the American Independent Party are in the Election Code. We at AIP have rules
    in the Government Code; Code of Regulations; By-Laws;
    Rules by Resolutions; Other Committee Rules: etc.

    As for the hearing in Fairfield, CA on March 26, 2010
    it will be in Department 2, before Judge Harrison at
    9:00 a.m. I filed a friend of the court brief on the
    subject of the Brewtown lawyer that King hired is not
    a member of the California Bar. Therefore he is UPL
    (Unauthorized practise of law) which is a crime and
    contempt of court in California. See the B & P sections
    6125, 6126, & 6127.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American
    Independent Party.

22. Reply to Allen at post # 11. You are correct! There numbers are very small. Also the process is very simple.
    It can be found in the California Election Code starting
    with section 5000. However, Ann E. Thomas make a major
    error in the process on June 28, 2008 that did not comply with Election Code section 5001, so if they applied to the Secretary of State it would have been
    rejected.
    Note THREE DATES DON Grundmann makes a hint that the
    events of June 28 – 29, 2008 in Los Angeles, might of
    happened before on June 6, 2008 & June 27, 2008. Bottom
    line here is that Anne E. Thompson may not have a clue
    on how to form a new party in California.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party.

23. Allen of post # 11 – To start a new party in California takes approximately $1,000,000. That is why moral and literal criminals like Mark Seidenberg, Mark Robinson, and Ed Noonan ( all working for Alan Keyes ); all too lazy and too stupid to create their own party: have temporarily hijacked the AIP from the CP. In effect their crime was Grand Theft which they accomplished by criminal actions inclusive of deliberately filing false documents with the Secretary of State office. The mass majority of the AIP ( 99%+ ) support the non-corruption faction of the party represented by Jim King as Chairman and myself as Vice-Chairman. The corruption faction of Robinson, Seidenberg, and Noonan is extremely small but as they are Republican moles it is Republican Party money which pays for the lawyers which to this moment keep them in their phony status. As documented at TheCorruptionOfAlanKeyes.blogspot.com Seidenberg is an ultra corrupt sociopathic liar. He is a Republican Party mole whose purpose is to destroy the 3rd party conservative movement in our nation. He is a traitor not just to the AIP but to the nation as a whole. His task is to thwart the rise of American patriots in their fight against the elite monied powers who are destroying our nation and working to assimilate us into the ” New World Order.” He; along with Mark Robinson, Ed Noonan, Alan Keyes, and Keyes lieutenant Tom Hoefling; is a supporter of and agent for the New World Order forces working on multiple fronts to eliminate our freedoms forever. Cicero wrote of him thousands of years ago – “A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and he carries his banners openly. But the traitor moves among those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the galleys, heard in the very hall of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor- he speaks in the accents familiar to his victims, and wears their face and their garment, and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation – he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of a city – he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared.”– Cicero, 42 B.C.E. The evil which now manifests as Mark Seidenberg has plaqued humanity through the centuries. It is the enemy of God and humanity.

    Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party

24. To Allen as a follow-up to my post. Don Grundmann is incorrect. It does not cost anything to form a political body in California. The question should be
    “How does one make a Political Body a Political Party?
    That is where the time and money comes into play.

    Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party

25. The problem I’m having is that people throw around all these big numbers for people who are registered in the AIP. At one point someone mentioned over 100,000 people in something I’ve read. If those 1000,000 people support one particular party, like the CP, it seems to me that it would take some time to collect the needed signatures, but if you know who is supporting your party and you have the voting lists (name address city)from the state, that would be easier then asking people on the street to sign a petition. I’m not sure but am I missing something? I image the debate will continue.

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