On June 30, a Solano County, California Superior Court Judge suggested orally that he will not alter the state’s recognition of Markham Robinson as state chair of the American Independent Party. Robinson is the leader of the faction of the party that is opposed to the national Constitution Party, and the faction that put Alan Keyes on the November 2008 ballot as the AIP’s presidential candidate.
The Robinson faction of the AIP held its state convention and state central committee meeting on June 26 in Sacramento. Eleven members of the State Central Committee attended. A few individuals who are entitled to be on the State Central Committee, but who are opposed to Robinson’s leadership, were initially seated but shortly afterwards told they would not be permitted to remain in the room.
The faction of the AIP that is associated with the Constitution Party will hold its own state convention and state central committee meeting in August, and that meeting is expected to have a much larger attendance of State Central Committee members. However, the passage of Proposition 14 makes it even more difficult than before for any neutral person to say with confidence who is or is not a proper member of the AIP state central committee. The election code sets forth internal rules for the American Independent Party. It says that the party’s nominees for federal and state office are automatically members of the committee, and that nominees for public office may also make other appointments to the committee. But under Proposition 14, parties no longer have nominees (except for President). Proposition 14 and its implementing legislation did not directly alter the AIP code section. Proposition 14 does not go into effect until 2011, but the implementing language, contained in Senate Bill 6, has already gone into effect.
The Superior Court will hold another hearing on July 21 to see if attorneys for the Robinson faction should be sanctioned for failing to appear for some depositions earlier this year.
There is no written order yet from the June 30 hearing.
On June 27, 2010, the State Central Committee elected Officers for the 2010 – 2012 term of the AIP. Some officers were re-elected and others are new.
Chairman: Nathan Sorenson
Vice Chairman: Mark Seidenberg
Secretary: Markham Robinson
Treasurer: Alane Queen
Chaplin: Wiley Drake
Parlimentarian: Patrick Colglazier
Sergeant at Arms: Vincent May
Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party, affiliated with the America’s Independent Party, since June 27, 2008 (as the national
party).
Note the name Vincent May. He is the the replacement for the late Jerome Denham for AIP nomination to the 10th Congressional Committee. Vincent May, became the
Filler of that seat, because on June 7th the State Central Committee voted to seat Mr. May to the remainer
of the vacant term of Diane B. Templin on the National
Committee. That meet was called to order by AIP Chairman Markham Robinson.
Richard Winger, what is “the Robinson faction of the the AIP”? That is a new idea to me. The Robinson Faction of the AIP did not hold a convention on the
Saturday, June 26, 2010. It was the American Independent Party State Convention that held its convention at Red Mans Hall in the South Sacramento Community of the County of Sacramento, CA. Since, I
am not part of a faction nor part of gang, I could not
have been at a convention of a gang or faction. What
happened on the weekend last was a convention and state
central committee meeting of the American Independent Party.
Oh, oh! I think I smell something bad about to hit the fan!
Richard Winger,
You state that passage of Proposition 14 makes it even more difficult than before for a neutral person to say
with confidence who is or who is not a proper member of
AIP State Central Committee. That is why the American
Independent Party has a Proxys and Credentials Committee.
Please explain why you believe it becomes more difficult
to make the determination? Proposition 14 is a very bad
proposition for all the electors in the State of California, because of top two, but I do not see how its passage effects the process of the workings of the
Proxys and Credentials Committee of the AIP.
Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party.
This is very sad:
* the shit residue from Prop 14, and
* the disintegration and imminent demise of a once-
vital state party.
I hope I am wrong about the latter.
Richard Winger,
You also stated in your post that a “few individuals who were entitled to be on the State Central Committee,
but opposed Robinson’s leadership, were initially seated, but shortly afterwards told they would not be
permitted to remain in the room.” This statement is just not correct.
This is what happened. One of the National Committeemen
appointed two persons to the State Central Committee and
they showed up a day early to the Convention. They were
to be seated at the State Central Committee meeting the
day after the convention, viz., not the convention.
The only person that was in the process to get seated was rejected on a reconderation vote within the Credentials Committee. That was not because of his views
on Robinson, it was because of a shortage of documents on the applicants part.
Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party, affiliated with the America’s Independent Party (as the national party), since June 27, 2008).
It is sad these people who call themselves adults, and some who call themselves patriots, and even some who call themselves Christians, are fighting like a group of grade school kids during recess. When will these people grow up and start fighting their real enemy?
I personally don’t care if the so-called “Chuck Baldwin/Constitution Party” faction is the legitimate California AIP, or if the “Alan Keyes/America’s Independent Party” faction is the legitimate California AIP, it is time these stubborn people start working together. It is not a matter of who did what, or who did not do what.
What is important is you start working together. You have the strongest gubernatorial candidate (despite any personal baggage some claims she has) on the AIP ticket in years. You have a strong Constitutionalist in the person of Diane Templin running for Attorney General. You have some other great nominees for various offices.
What more could you ask for? Grow up people! Start working at saving our republic.
Mr. Seidenberg, I am very glad that I do not live anywhere near the left coast because your whole group reeks of vomit and festering roadkill. Eleven people showed up to your state convention representing ALL of California huh? The hijacked AIP sounds like the biggest scam since Barry Soetoro’s Hawaiian birth certificate.
Man, I’m now even more happier I’m up in Nevada. Chris Hansen was our ‘Ed Noonan’, but his attempts got foiled quickly.
Mark, the fact that you only had those few people show up at your convention is a complete shame. Before Ed came about, AIP conventions usually brought out 30+ people.
Cody,
Check out the following on YouTube. On part 1 you can skip the intro and start at 1:52.
1) http:www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBMcmajQ2ZM
2) http:www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_y8tg2mvLU&feature=related
3) http:www.youtube.com/watch?v=afIwp8PCds4&feature=related
4) http:www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqvF1YF9rcg&feature=related
Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party
Doremus Jessup,
We are doing what we can to stop the hijackers. I am looking to the a time we can work to build the party after the hijackers are stopped.
Sincerely, Mark Seodenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party
Poster staff for counter productive political activists: Cody Quirk, Donald Grundmann, Nightmare Nightingale!
The louder they shout the more folks are dashing out the door and jumping out the window!
Mark, whats the point of those videos?
Cody Quark:
Barack H. Obama I’s father was naturalized as a subject of the Sultan of Zanzabar in the year 1919, under a naturization decree. In 1862 on the date of Charles Evans Hughes’s birth, his father was a Subject of Queen
Victoria.
Does “native born” and “natural born” mean the same thing? In the case of CEH his father was naturalized
a United States Citizen after CEH’s birth. Was CEH also
naturized at the time his father birth, how did it effect British birth registration as a subject of Queen
Victoria? Under U.S. law the age of consent was 21 for
the case of duel nationals, if in the United States. Under the laws of Indonesia the age of consent was 17 for citizenship when Obama entered Pakistan at age 19
in 1980.
In 1949, Barack H. Obama I’s father was convicted in the
first set of Mau Mau trials. In 1951 that father was
let out of prison, because of trial error, viz., he was
charged with being a subject of King George VI of England, when in fact he was a subject of the then Sultan of Zanzibar. Zanzibar at the time of Obama II’s
birth was an Arab State under British Protection. By
the British Nationality Act 1948, Barack H. Obama I was
a British Protected Person from the point he was issued
a British Protected Person’s Passport in 1959 until the
protectorate ended over Zanzibar on December 10, 1963.
Remember that Zanzibar was admitted to the United Nation’s on December 16th, 1963. This was prior to Kenya’s admission. Stanley Ann (Obama II’s mama)
became a British Protected Person in her own right, at the point of marriage circa February 4, 1961 upon the
marriage to Obama I. Stanley Ann gave birth to Obama on
August 4, 1961 (six month later)at the age of 18. However, on August 4, 1961, for Obama to become a United
States Citizen at birth, his mother would have to have been over the age of 19 at the birth of baby Obama on August 4, 1961, because under United States law at the
time, the mother had to have been a resident of the United States for ten years and five of those years was
must be after the age of 14 years of age.
Bottom line at birth, Obama II was not a United States Citizen. He was not a citizen of Kenya, because he
did not become a citizen of Kenya, under the laws of Kenya. At birth he was a subject of the Sultan of
Zanzibar, because of the 1919 naturalization decree
in Zanzibar of his paternal grandfather. Until his adoption by his stepfather under the laws of Indonesia,
Obama was a subject of Zanzibar only. No duel nationality on the part of Obama. He was just the Subject of the Sultan of Zanzibar.
Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party, affiliated with the America’s Independent Party (national affiliate), since June 27,
2008
I kinds feel sorry for the fan!
Pending further litigation, there seems to be two choices at this point: 1) Those loyal to the Constitution Party need to join the court-recognized AIP so that they can nominate pro-Constitution Party candiates in 2011 and 2012 and then hope to become the new officers in 2012 or, 2)start with the tens of thousands of voters who selected pro-CP nominees and become the “Constitution Party” on the ballot. Yes, this advice has been given many times. The usual answer is that it requires 88,991 registered members (which it does, according to the site for 2008 requirements)to get a full party on the ballot. Well, with tens of thousands recently voting for Candidate Nightingale, and the many who are following her candidacy, perhaps 88,991 people COULD be registed into this “new” party. It if fails, have you lost any time (since now it looks like 2012 before you get new officers)?
T0: Craig M.
Read your post with great interest. I would love to know what you mean by “loyal to the Constitution Party”?
Do you have any idea what the number of paid members of
the Constitution Party are that are registered to vote in the American Independent Party? Do you know the number of paid members in Veteran Coalition from California (who get the free membership in constitution party)?
Nightingale received at last count 23,271 votes out of
over 397,000 registered voters in this party.
In 2006, Chairman (of AIP) Ed Noonan received in the
Primary 29,696 votes for Governor
In 2002, Mr. Reinhold Gulke received 26,269 in the votes for Governor.
Not all of the 23,271 voter that voted for Nightingale
are loyal to the the Constitution Party. My guess is
if you took a poll of the 23,271, the majority would
support the current national affliation, viz., the America’s Independent Party.
This is all moot anyway, since Nightingale will not be
on the November, 2010 ballot for the American Independent Party, after the AIP Convention and State
Central Committee voted not to have a candidate for Governor in 2010.
Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party, affiliated with the America’s Independent Party of Fenton, Michigan (national affliation) since June 27, 2008
10’s of THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE DID NOT VOTE FOR CHELENE NIGHTINGALE!! Chelene Nightingale got about 23,000 markham robinson got about 17,000…This is from a state that has 33 million people.
I live in socal and nobody I know has even heard of her. She has a fringe following. #1 why would the aip endorse chelene Nightingale for governor 2010, a person her #1 Filed for bankruptcy (cannot manage her own finances) #2 Foreclosed on her home (taxpayer footing that bill) #3 has no education beyond the streets. #4 Has conspiracy theory ideas #5 Has lied about her background #6 Has been unemployed most of her life. Now you tell me what makes this person a viable candidate. (I’ll wait) Why in Gods name would I or any sensible voter with half a brain allow this kind of person to run a State of California that is dire straights and needs stable management. seriously I have looked into all the allegations and they have proven correct. This is not smear its fact. Because a fringe group of people wish to stick their heads in the sand over this person..does not bypass the truth and viability. She had her chance reasonable people know she will not be elected, she can try again under the top two prop 14 in 4 years. If prop 14 were in effect she would not have even made the top 15. She came in 16th among ALL candidates that were running. All reps and dem candidates scored more votes than she. Even Aguirre a surfer who ran got 79,000 votes. If anything back this guy for the AIP. Chelene Nightingale is a flake in my estimation. Sorry if the truth hurts. Just because someone can scream at rallies does not make for a decent candidate. As for adding fuel to the fire The rantings by Don grundmann has been the most detrimental of all to the AIP coming together. He is a divisive vindictive person, that has led the CP faction over the cliff and has in general midlead and deceived the cp faction. They are now left holding the empty bag, with no chance of being seen as viable. I will now be accused of being mark s. I assure you I am not, and I hope after Novemeber this group of hijackers will take a long look at the deception they were fed from a disgruntled little man of no stature.
Mark seriously??? Nightingale is being taken off the ballot?? WOW are you kidding me. Can they try to sue (the cp faction? (they little funds so I doubt it) please tell more about this.
To: journalist
I did not state that anyone was being taken off the
ballot. I said that no one can use the label “American
Independent” next to their name on the ballot for the
office of Governor in the 2010 general election. The
Election Code is very clear. The label “American Independent” is the property of the AIP it is not
the property of the State of California. The people
reaffirmed that property right in the just past Prop.
14. Prop. 14 at the end of the current canvass will
be retroactive to June 9, 2010. The election code states how the nominee from this direct primary can
go about and get the use of the label. I do not think
Mr. John Baldwin (Nightingale campaign manager) has a clue on how the election code works, therefore, he may
fail. Remember, 50% of the signatures that John Baldwin
collected for Nightingale were no good. That is a very low pass rate.
Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party
You idiots are just unbelievable. It is times like this that the laws against dueling should be reconsidered. I guess even if they were you all are just so chicken shit that nobody would show up anyway! Get a life already!
mark, so what party name would Nightingale use? None just her name? Since she doesn’t belong any party and never belonged properly to the AIP ?
To casual sorry but THIS IS LIFE you seem to be enthralled in this discussion so maybe you should re-evaluate your own peculiar behavior :0
journalist- phuq you!
XXO
TO: journalist,
I do not what to help Mr. John Baldwin. Therefore, I am
not going to give the proceedures information on this post now. After the dealine passes I will post on the
issue. However, any good Elections Law attorney could
figure it out.
Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg
To: Casual Bystander:
What laws against dueling are you talking about?
Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American
Independent Party
Considering these people that Chelene Nightingale surrounds herself with have NO money to pay for such advise perhaps she can throw a bbq to raise funds. Or maybe Bill Lussenheide can use some of his “investor” money to help her out.
To: journalist:
Jim King must get his money from some where. It is not
cheap to be in a lawsuit. King sued the Secratary of
State, The State Printer, Chairman Ed Noonan in Sacramento. The he sues Chairman Robinson twice in Fairfield. All this over the past two years.
Yesterday, I was informed that I can go to Jim King’s
cabal in Ontario, CA. This is in mid-August. Let’s
look at my calendar. I am invited to speak at the
Alameda County Central Committee meeting of the American
Independent Party on August 12 in Oakland. August 13th
I will be in Court, because of the Case of King vs.
Robinson. Sorry calendar is to full!
Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party
” The only person that was in the process to get seated was rejected on a reconderation vote within the Credentials Committee. That was not because of his views
on Robinson, it was because of a shortage of documents on the applicants part.”
Response – Another day and another outright lie from Mark Seidenberg, ADL/SPLC agent.
A) The mass majority of all people who were properly elected on the AIP ticket in June for all different offices, from County Central Committee to our Governor candidate Chelene Nightingale, were never given formal notice of the fake ” Convention ” held by the Robinson criminal gang. They learned about it from other sources.
B) 3 people who were legally elected as AIP candidates/officers were 1) Ernest Vance to the Sacramento County Central Committee; 2) Jerry Leidecker, unopposed for Congress 3rd District; and 3) David Christenson, unopposed for Congress 11th District.
Ernie Vance, a 20 year member of the Sacramento County Central Committee and Chairman for the last 4 years, was informed at the door by Mark Robinson that he would not be allowed to participate on either Saturday or Sunday because his term of office expired on June 8th – the day that he was legally elected to the Committee. Why did Robinson do this? Answer – Because he knew that Ernie would oppose his corruption.
Similarly Jerry and David were also denied entry because Robinson knew that they would expose and vote against his corruption.
Only those who would support the total corruption of the Robinson criminal gang were invited to the fake ” convention.”
Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
To readers of this thread –
” journalist ” of multiple comments above is Mark Seidenberg, ADL/SPLC agent, performing his common practice of writing under fake names.
Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
The state of California apparently recognizes that faction so more sour grapes grundman. The Robinson faction has the State and courts behind them so bellyache all you want.
Grundamn you ass I am not seidenberg how could I be conversing with him and be him So to the padded cell you belong to SORRY LOSER!! SOUR GRAPES FOR A very sorry loser….
Bill Lussenheide for congress ca-45 is a major crook and wack too! He has a history of fraud and trouble making in his past with his cult following of WORLDWIDE CHURCH OF GOD. He tried a take-over and was shown the door. He has a pattern as does Nightingale and the rest to be immature fakes and losers!
and ask Mark S if I were him how could I send him mail to the interest of the AIP. Wait I know I am mark s and I also send letters to myself from accross the state?? Your mother is calling Don g go do something worthwhile.
Alabama Independent – To this moment Mark Seidenberg, as a key member of the Robinson criminal gang, is working to have Chelene Noghtingale thrown off of the ballot. Additionally the Robinson criminal gang have voted to sue the Secretary of State office to have the AIP party designation removed from multiple candidates for office in November including Chelene. Lastly, Seidenberg personally and other supporters of the corruption of the Robinson criminal gang are smearing Chelene with lies across the entire internet spectrum. The lies include that she has been convicted of fraud ( never happened ) but are added to by vicious and vile smears written by Seidenberg that – she is a whore, her son hates her, she is a failed actress, she was an actress in porno films, she resembles an actress in porno films, she is a deadbeat, she is cheating taxpayers, and on and on and on. Seidenberg and his fellow corrupt supporters will be spreading such vile, sick, and revolting smears against Chelene all the way to election night. The Robinson criminal gang has no possible intention of supporting non-corrupt candidates who oppose, expose, and challenge their corruption.
There is no ” working together ” with evil. To stand against evil is not ” being stubborn.
” It is not a matter of who did what.”
You are wrong. The Robinson criminal gang is only in their position because they deliberately filed fake papers with the Secretary of State office. Their fake ” convention ” was designed to stop all opposition from voting against them. They knew that with a honest vote they had no chance of survival.
Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
” Jim King must get his money from some where.”
Response – Mark Seidenberg, as an agent of the Anti-Defamation League and the Southern Poverty Law Center, gets his funding from ( in no particular order ) A) the Republican Party, B) the ADL, C) the SPLC, D0 associated enemies of the nation.
He is involved in domestic espionage within our nation with his assigned task of destroying the 3rd party conservative movement in our nation.
He is a traitor to our nation.
Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
don g you know that there are many people that Nightingale has crossed. Jim Gilchrist writes about her several people from her hate group SOS write about her, the list goes on to blame Seidenberg for all that is written about her is wrong. She made her bed and now she has to pay the piper. Running for a public office was probably something she should not have done if she did not want to be held accountable for her past. The documents are online I have read them of her bankruptcy and of lawsuits against her from the minutemen and others. Where’s the lie there? She is an unsavory person that has a horrible past. She should have (thought) it over before she allowed herself to be in the public. But, she doesn’t think about things, she can open her mouth and condemn and degrade others but, when they turn it around on her she cries? She is not some pollyanna! This woman can stand and scream in a microphone about her hatred towards immigrants the President of the United states everyone is fair game for this hideous person. Stop being a hgypocrite grundman.
btw When you file for foreclosure and don’t pay the amount YOU SIGNED AND PROMISED TO PAY and the bank takes that debt YOU ARE CHEATING THE taxpayers. Taxpayer bailout.
” journalist “i.e.; Mark The SeidenTraitor – A) YOU are the ‘ unsavory person ” who deliberately conspired to file false documents with the Secretary of State office. You are a literal and moral criminal. B) Your comment in #38 is stupid and ludicrous. As you do every day you are ( yet again ) lying.
Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
Hey Mark, Don and “Journalist”, why don’t you three get a room and continue your menage a trois there. I don’t think Richard allows graphic PDA on his site. Even the gay pride parades in his native San Fran aren’t as disgusting as you monkeys.
Mr. Seidenberg. I don’t care if you are the legitimate Vice-Chairman of the California AIP and recognized as such by the Secretary of State and the Superior Court Judge. Still, your actions and your attitude disgusts me. If you are successful in removing Chelene Nightingale from the November, 2010 ballot as the AIP nominee for governor – after she has received some 58% of the primary vote – how do you think the voters of California let alone the members of the AIP are going to react?
We had a situation here in Alabama many years ago, when a Democratic “outsider” won the gubernatorial nomination in the 2nd primary. The Democratic establishment couldn’t stand it, and they had the winner removed by claiming his margin of victory was from those votes cast by Republicans who had “crossed-over” in the 2nd primary. They removed the 1st place candidate, and replaced him with the 2nd place candidate. The people of Alabama had a fit. When the General Electon came shortly thereafter, the people of Alabama voted overwhelmingly for Guy Hunt – the 1st Republican governor of Alabama in some 100 years. You folks do something stupid like this to Ms Nightingale who did win, you can be sure the members of the AIP will remember it.
Why can’t you admit Chelene Nightingale got 58% of the vote? Okay, so she is not perfect. “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.” I understand your candidate for U.S. Senator, Mr. Noonan, won and several other candidates you supported won. Why are you so greedy? Are you a political “hog” that must have “all or none?”
Again, you may be the legitimate Vice-Chair, but your actions and attitude are a disgrace to Christians patriots in California and elsewhere. Why don’t you act like the patriot you claim to be? Or, are you really fronting for GOP groups who want to weaken the potential of the AIP?
Mr. Seidenberg. Explain what you mean by this post of yours in #16 where you say in the below quote, “…the AIP Convention and State Central Committee voted to not have a candidate for Governor in 2010.”
“This is all moot anyway, since Nightingale will not be
on the November, 2010 ballot for the American Independent Party, after the AIP Convention and State
Central Committee voted not to have a candidate for Governor in 2010.”
Are you folks serious? You claim to be a political party and its rightful officers, and you are NOT going to have a gubernatorial candidate? If this is the case, why are you existing as a political party for anyway?
Do you plan to tell your almost 400,000 AIP members they must choose between Republican Meg Whitman and Democrat Jerry Brown? If this is true, then I can see why some claim you are fronting for the GOP. What better way of helping the GOP nominee – by not having an AIP nominee!
This is unbelievable!
Alabama Independent – As I have been saying, Mark Seidenberg is an agent of the Anti-Defamation League ( ADL ), the Southern Poeverty Law Center ( SPLC ), and the Republican Party. He has multiple handlers/controllers inclusive of Alan Keyes ( who has his own controller(s)). Their relevant objective in regard to the topic of this thread is the destruction of the 3rd party conservative movement in the nation. The accomplishment of this objective is a multi-faceted operation inclusive of destroying the American Independent Party secondarily and the Constitution Party primarily. He is a traitor to the nation.
Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
Mr. Grundmann. It is one thing to “claim” that Mr. Seidenberg is “an agent of the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), and the Republican Party.” But where is your “hard” evidence and proof? I admit that some of the things he is doing and saying could be what a person “fronting” for the GOP would do, but that, unfortunately, is not enough. Show me some real “evidence” and I may join sides with you – notwithstanding it appears Mr. Seidenberg and company have the blessings of the Secretary of State and the Court.
Alabama Independent – The exposure of domestic espionage by the ADL and their coordination with the SPLC was an event that occurred in the 90’s resulting from raids upon ADL offices in San Francisco and other cities. Do I have recordings of Seidenbergs contacts with his handlers? Have I had the benefit of police raids to uncover files and other confirming evidence? Not at the moment. Does all available evidence of such an accusation lead to a virtually incontrovertible and overwhelming confirmation of its validity? Yes, and this most emphatically.
Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
Mr. Grundmann. Since this post is getting so dated and not many folks are willing to page back and down through several posts to catch the latest, if is strange that Mr. Seidenberg does not respond to any of my questions. And this makes me wonder about him and his followers. It make sense as the GOP would love to remove the AIP from the California ballot or at least neutralize it. Putting up a candidate like Mr. Robinson who did not, as I recall, even have a campaign website would neutralize it and makes one wonder.
But still, you need evidence. I’m not saying you are wrong, but you need evidence. If this is the truth about Mr. Seidenberg and his followers, then get that evidence and post it. The voters will take care of the rest.
Mr. Seidenberg. I am still waiting on your answers to my questions in my posts of #41 and of # 42. Will they be forthcoming?
To: Alabama Independent:
You asked me in post # 47, “I am still waiting on your answers to my questions in my posts of #41 and of #42.
Will they be forthcoming?
I can not see any real questions in your posts 41 and 42. Have you ever had a logic class?
You make statements like why are you so greedy? I do not call that a question. Just ask stright question
and you may get answers.
Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party
Oh come on Seidenberg. Stop playing silly childish games. You’re just avoiding the questions because you are afraid you cannot give a truthful answer to them.
So again, as simple as I know how to ask them,why will you not show your loyalty to the AIP and support Nightingale who did win with 58% of the vote even though your candidate lost? Are you a “sore loser?”
If you are able to deny Nightingale the AIP label in November, how are you going to explain why to both the AIP members who supported her, and to the other voters in California who desire to vote for her in November?
And if you are not going to have an AIP gubernatorial candidate on the 2010 ballot (as you wrote in an earlier post), how are you going to explain this decision to your party members?
These are straight questions, Mr. Seidenberg. Why do you refuse to answer them?
Alabama Independent – Seidenberg has no loyalty to the AIP. His only loyalty is to his handlers/masters/controllers and their objective of destroying the 3rd party conservative movement in our nation.
Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
A betting man might wager that Seidenberg is not going to let Alabama Independent or Grundmann have the last word. This thread could go on for a long time.
Thank you, Dr. Gillespie. You are correct. I have attempted to be neutral ever since this brawl first started, as I wanted to know the full story of both sides so I would know (if possible) who was on the side of right. Often, with 3rd parties, and because most states have such vague laws dealing with chosing of leadership of such parties, it is often hard to say who is legal and who is not.
I actually see good people on both sides of this debate. I like Alan Keyes. Even if I might find some philosophical disagreements with him, I think he is a fine patriotic American with solid social values. He is not perfect, but who is? And I still think the Constituton Party made a “stupid political blunder” in 2008 when they did not nominate a “Keyes-Baldwin” ticket. I will not go into the points of how such a ticket would have been beneficial to both Keyes and the Constitution Party – but the fact remains it was a lost opportunity.
I also like Chuch Baldwin. He too is solid in his political positions – although as with Keyes – I find a disagreement or two. There are many others in the Constitution Party as well as in America’s Independent Party who are straight and solid patriots.
But the problem within both of these groups, is you have some who are doctrinal purists. With them you must dot your “i’s” and cross your “t’s” just the way they do on each and every issue, or else you are a phoney and a fraud.
How silly! Our founding fathers would have never agreed on the original draft of the Constitution of the United States if they were as hard-headed and stubborn as some are in both the Constitution Party and America’s Independent Party.
So while I’m still not sure of which faction there in the California AIP is legal, it does appear, as you point out, Mr. Seidenberg is “hell-bent” and determined to have the last word. And sometimes this attitude can shed some light on the truth.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Maybe one day the legal group – and more importantly the group which trully has the best interest of the California AIP at heart will be triumphful.
I see that my posts exposing Seidenberg’s actions furthering the homosexual agenda have been sanitized????
Makes me wonder if BAN and Seidenberg are in bed together?
HOw many court cases did it take to have some sort of legal officers in the Reform Party ???
*natural born* = at birth allegiance to a NATION-State regime — going back for thousands of years in primitive tribal regimes ???
Our tribe versus your tribe ???
Alabama Independent – In regard to the AIP and CP the protest is not one of ” doctrinal purity ” or ” hardheadedness ” but rather regards fraud and corruption. Specifically, as I have documented at TheCorruptionOfAlanKeyes.blogspot.com, there was never an honest vote to disaffiliate the AIP from the CP. If such a honest vote had occured then I would have absolutely no protest. But it did not as Robinson, Seidenberg, and Noonan conducted a campaign of fraud to advance their position; a fraud which continues to this day as noted by the recent fake ” convention ” of their criminal gang which was conducted specifically to deny the right to vote to the mass majority of delegates since they would have opposed the corruption of the Keyes criminal gang.
Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
I think I should have been addressing you as “Dr. Grundmann” and I apologize for not giving you this honor. Correct me if I am in error.
I am going to log onto TheCorruptionOfAlanKeyes.blogspot.com and see what I can learn from this site – even though I know it may be only “your” side of the story.
But I do agree we must have honesty in all our activities or else the patriotic 3rd party movement loses its credibility. I mean what would it have done for the positive advancement of either the Constitution Party and/or the America’s Independent Party to have nominated, for example, a nationally well-known but corrupt political figure for President in 2008?
But we are on the verge of losing a nation. And while we need integrity, we also need to be realistic. And if we have to have as leaders, unfortunately, some people who are otherwise patriotic individuals, but who may have “shady” reputations helping us save this nation, then this is a chance we have to take.
Since I do not reside in or vote in California, one could say, as we say in Alabama, “I don’t have a dog in that fight.” At the same time the ability of having the California AIP to be led and controlled by real patriots is the most important thing. How strong an independent, pro-America, pro-Constitution 3rd party the AIP in California can become, will have a definite affect on if we win or lose this struggle to save this country. I would like to think you concur.
I would like for you to illustrate this greater truth and your love for the sovereignity of the United States, and demonstate your personal patriotism by endorsing your opponent in the recent AIP Primary – Mr. Noonan – even if you do so publicly with qualified reservations. He might not in turn show appreciation for such (and that may help show in and of itself) whether he is a true patriot or not), but it at least will demonstrate to the people of California you are a real patriot.
Can we at least expect that of you Dr. Grundmann?
Alabama Independent – In order to be a real and true patriot I must spread far and wide the truth that Ed Noonan is the most corrupt candidate for any office in my state, and perhaps the nation, in the history of the state, and perhaps the nation. Far better to vote for Charles Manson, Pol Pot, or Joseph Stalin than Ed Noonan. I personally know that Ed Noonan is a backstabbing coward liar and ultra corrupt traitor to our nation. He is truly an outright evil betrayer who himself would and will sell our nation out in a heartbeat as demonstrated by his betrayal of the 3rd party conservative movement in our nation. I must confess that I failed to stop his evil in the primary. I failed to inform the citizens of what a monstrous candidate and person he truly is. It is because I love my country that I continue to fight against the treason of Ed Noonan. Ed Noonan is NOT a conservative. He IS a traitor. Am I really a patriot if I endorse a traitor? No, A.I. To endorse Ed Noonan would be a repudiation of all that I have ever stood for or believed in. It would be as if I turned to God and told Him to go to Hell as my new best friend was Satan. No thanks. Ed Noonan is a candidate and a person from Hell. If we lose the nation it will be because we lost the fight against Satan and his demons such as Mark Robinson, Mark Seidenberg, and Ed Noonan. Demons in human form who are here to bring our nation to Hell in service of their Master. I would rather die than betray my Creator. Similarly I would rather die than betray my nation by endorsing a human demon like Ed Noonan. Even a professional demon like Barbara Boxer is to be preferred over an even greater demon in human form like Ed Noonan. He is truly a monster among monsters.
Don J. Grundmann, D.C. Vice-Chairman American Independent Party, California branch of the Constitution Party
Dr. Grundmann. Quite a forceful statement of your opinion and I respect your right to hold such a belief.
However, I do hope you will remain registered with the AIP there in California. Surely there will be other times for other elections and the party will be safely in the hands of those who really care about America. I also hope in the future you will run for other offices there in California on the AIP ticket.
If Messers Robinson, Seidenberg, and Noonan are guilty as you claim, time and events will expose them. You stay there and fight on for what is right. I’m doing the same here in Alabama. Regards to you and yours!
I’m afraid to jump into yet another ridiculous thread of nut postings, but maybe someone other than the usual whackos can answer this: can a few people with AIP titles actually kick Chelene Nightingale off the ballot after her sizable primary win? I never knew that the CA primary was only a beauty contest and that party bosses can overturn election results.
The California primary is binding for all office except President. There is no plausible legal case for any of the officers of the AIP to remove either Chelene herself, or the American Independent label next to her name, from the November 2010 ballot.
I didn’t mean by my snarky remark (51 above) to discourage Mr. Seidenberg continued participation in the
discussion, though that seems to have been the effect.
So please, Mark Seidenberg, return to the discussion. In particular, what is your reaction to Richard’s remark
immediately above? As everyone on this thread knows,
Richard knows everything about election law, especially
in California.
#60 – Thanks Richard
“Cody Quark:
Barack H. Obama I’s father was naturalized as a subject of the Sultan of Zanzabar in the year 1919, under a naturization decree. In 1862 on the date of Charles Evans Hughes’s birth, his father was a Subject of Queen
Victoria.”
Again, you get my last name wrong; my name is spelled the same as the term in the dictionary, so please spell it right!
I’m not disagreeing with you on Obama’s orgins, but why did you suddenly bring this up?
And there’s nothing you can do to take the AIP label away from Chelene’s name on the ballot- you will not win on that.
Tom Metzger won the Democratic Primary for Congress, and the Democrats had to put up with him carrying the Democratic label, so you guys are stuck with her as the AIP candidate for Governor; get the fuck over it Mark.
10?s of THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE DID NOT VOTE FOR CHELENE NIGHTINGALE!! Chelene Nightingale got about 23,000 markham robinson got about 17,000…This is from a state that has 33 million people.
= Because the State had a Closed Primary before Prop 14 won; if you don’t know what a closed primary is, then go to the wikipedia and look it up moron.
More AIP’ers could’ve voted in that primary and didn’t; so its their loss, and Robinson’s loss, and get over the fact that Nightingale is the AIP candidate for Governor, Mr. lake- you sound like such a little bitch here.
Mr. Seidenberg, I concur with Dr. Gillispie. Come out from hiding and tell us (1) how are you going to keep Chelene Nightingale off the November ballot with the AIP label by her name, and (2) prove to us that Dr. Grundmann is incorrect when he claims you and your supporters are “fronting” for the GOP so the AIP will either dry up and die on the vine, or will be so weak it will never nominate (let alone elect) a candidate who will deprive the GOP nominees of victory.
Very simple questions, Mr. Seidenberg. Let us hear from you.