On November 13, Alan Keyes and his vice-presidential running mate in California, Reverend Wiley Drake, and other members of the American Independent Party, filed a new lawsuit over Barack Obama’s eligibility to be president. Keyes v Bowen, Superior Court, Sacramento, 34-2008-80000096-cu-wm-gds. Read it here.
Unlike other lawsuits about the eligibility of either John McCain or Obama to serve as president, this case has a presidential candidate plaintiff. All the other cases have been dismissed because the plaintiffs were said to lack standing. This is the first case with a presidential candidate-plaintiff.
In Fulani v Hogsett, in 1990, the 7th circuit ruled that presidential candidates do have standing to challenge the ballot placement of other presidential candidates. However, that case involved the issue of which presidential candidates’ names should be printed on a ballot. That is different than the new Keyes case, because the November election is over, and no one argues that the individual presidential elector candidates themselves are not eligible. The lawsuit asks that the California Secretary of State not certify the election returns for president until the plaintiffs receive the evidence they seek about the factual dispute.
Electors chosen on November 4 will convene in state capitols on December 15 to choose the president and vice-president.
Obama was simply asked to provide proper documents to declare that he is an American citizen. Oftentimes, when someone hides something, they have something to hide. We may soon findout that Obama was actually born in Kenya and had citizenship changed, as a minor child, to Indonesia. Thus, he could very well be ineligible to serve as President.
Obama DID provide proper documents to declare that he is an American citizen. He even had his Hawaii birth certificate posted publicly to the Internet.
Not that that matters: as the child of an American citizen, he himself would be and is a natural born American citizen until and unless he himself, as an adult, renounced that citizenship. It doesn’t matter where he was born, provided that at least one parent was a citizen- as his mother was.
If Keyes doesn’t have better grounds to challenge Obama than that- and how about telling us what grounds he’s suing on?- then his case will get thrown out summarily without hearing, just like all the others.
Is there a link to the text of the Keyes suit? Clearly the issue must be resolved. That would do more good for this country. Trust: sine qua non.
There is a point when kooky crosses the line into insane, and Keyes has done just that.
There is no reason to believe that Obama is not a natural born American citizen other than some people really, really, really want it to be otherwise. It’s pure crazy talk.
I don’t see the point of arguing with insane people any longer. What you have to believe combined with what you have to ignore, in order to doubt his natural citizenship, is the height of contrived nonsense.
Mr. Keyes should let this one go. If President-Elect Barack Obama was to be denied taking office, there would be a Revolution in this country.
To Phil Sawyer, Is the Revolution you speak of really a revolution or are you refering to violence and riots. This threat of riots I believe is the reason the media will not cover this story. Are we going to let fear overcome the law? If Obama is not constiutionally eligble then the constiution must be defended. I make no claim that the allegations against Mr. Obama are true or false. I do think we are entitled to ask him produce his 1961 birth certificate and supporting hospital records, cosidering the circumstances. We have 17 lawsuits against the President Elect and nothing on the nightly or cable news.
Keyes is crazier than Nader. His lawyer is the same.
In the filing, the only time they use anyone’s middle name is in reference to President-Elect Obama. I’m sure he also snickers to himself when he writes “Democrat Party”.
This is the best thing Keyes has done in a long while, Good for Keyes ~~ who by the way surprised my by getting over 40,000 votes.
One of Keyes’s attorneys in this new lawsuit, Gary Kreep, won the court battle over whether Keyes or Baldwin should be on the California ballot, even though Kreep had the disadvantage of arguing on speakerphone (while the attorney on the other side was in the courtroom). So don’t underestimate him.
If, indeed, Obama is not eligible due to his place of birth and the fix is in, then Alan Keyes is a true patriot. Protecting the constitution is job one.
I was born in Germany, but I’ve been told that since my father was serving in the US Army, I would not be precluded from running for president. Obama’s mother would be in no official US capacity while overseas. Also, didn’t Obama’s Indonesian father adopt him? Does that make a difference?
One must wonder why this issue seems to to have enough traction to warrant lawsuits.
If it turns out that these lawsuits have no basis, then this has the opposite effect of protecting the constitution.
Either way, I do agree that there will be rioting in the streets if Obama is denied. That doesn’t excuse our duty as Americans, if that were the case.
I assume Obama is a citizen but I have to wonder why the response to these lawsuits has been stonewalling rather than just simply showing it to the appropriate court and ending the controversy.
Whether he was born outside the US DOES MATTER, even if his mother WAS A US CITIZEN according to the STATE DEPARTMENT.
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86757.pdf
Stanley Ann Dunham was 19 when Barak was born “after 1952” and before “1986”. FAILS REQUIREMENT to be in the US for 5 after she is 14 years old.
7 FAM 1133.2-2 Original Provisions and Amendments to
Section 301
(CT:CON-204; 11-01-2007)
a. Section 301 as Effective on December 24, 1952: When enacted in 1952,
section 301 required a U.S. citizen married to an alien to have been
physically present in the United States for ten years, including five after
reaching the age of fourteen, to transmit citizenship to foreign-born
children. The ten-year transmission requirement remained in effect from
12:01 a.m. EDT December 24, 1952, through midnight November 13,
1986, and still is applicable to persons born during that period. As
originally enacted, section 301(a)(7) stated: Section 301. (a) The
following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth: (7)
a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its
outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a
citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was
physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a
period or periods totaling not less than ten years, at least five of which
were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any
periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States by
such citizen parent may be included in computing the physical presence
requirements of this paragraph.
Although a kook at times, on this on Keyes is dead on. Here’s the proof:
Constitutional Crisis brought to you by the New World Order?
Alex Jones welcomes former Pennsylvania Deputy Attorney General Philip Berg to discuss the results of Berg’s investigation (and resulting law suits, one currently before the Supreme Court) which led him to conclude that President Elect Barrack Obama is not a natural born citizen of the United States and thus is not qualified under the United States Constitution to hold the position of Chief Executive Officer.
http://www.radiodujour.com/people/berg_philip/index.shtml
I seriously don’t understand how any person in their right mind is still following this kind of bullspit. Obama has provided his COLB to several different fact checking websites as well as displaying it himself on fightthesmears.com but you kooks still won’t leave it alone. But here is the rub, ALL of you tin foil hatters claim you are just so pissed because he didn’t release his COLB (even though he did) saying how unreasonable he is being, but none of you I repeat NONE of you can say that you have seen John McCain’s COLB. This in spite of the fact that there have been lawsuits about his eligibility as well because he was born at the Panama Canal. But nooooooooo nobody cares about McCain’s COLB. I wonder why that is… lol nahhhhhhhhhhh no I don’t. All of you losers need to grow up and get over it. President Barack Obama, get used to saying it critters!
MR.OBAMA,
Please just hand over the documents to all of the courts involved, so that the doubts of the American people will be put to rest. We DO NOT want to see a Certificate of Live Birth. We want the vaulted copy of your birth certificate (if it exists),all documentation related to being adopted by your step-father and school records in Indonesia, all college records, and all documents regarding re-entrance into the US from Indonesia. There is no reason to hide anything from us. We don’t care if you might have gotten a bad grade in college, but we do care if your college records say Barry Soetoro. Do not try to dismiss any further court requests, especially the US Supreme court. Having it dismissed only means that you are hiding something. If you have it dismissed one more time there will be an uprising of the silent voters. Sincerely, Ohio Nurse
Obama needs to prove to us all that he is not a robot sent from the future.
LOL
Alan Keyes
The longer he’s around, the kookier he gets. We in Illinois were “blessed” with his run for the Senate a few years around, along with a GOP primary run this spring by Andy Martin, another total goofball involved with investigating Obama’s birth.
Anyone seriously giving these guys the time of day really needs to get a life.
BTW, my wife had to order her birth certificate for ID needs, and the one that came back looked extremely close to the one posted by Obama in various places. I do not see the issue there.
train111
Richard:
I know that you very much wish you had a complete listing of all these obama qualification lawsuits filed nationwide.
F.y.i. here are yet additional state and related federal lawsuits regarding seating of electoral college 2008 electors (New York State electors in these related cases)
Subject: 10 AM 11-17-08 Appearence for Proposed Order to Show Cause in NYS-SC 29642-2008
On Monday 11-17-08 , a proposed Order to Show Cause for emergency relief in the Case with Index No.: 29642/2008 at which requesting a preliminary injunction hearing
1. a Judicial Subpeona of the US State Department of the travel documents from 1960 through 1963 for Stanley Ann Dunham (Obama)
2. That the Documents be provided to each of the Elected Electoral College slates and their filled vacancies before their certification on or about December 1, 2008;
3. That until such time that the documents are provided there shall be a stay upon the New York Electoral College from voting on or after December 15, 2008 and / or
4. Until the stay is lifted by the US Supreme Court or the Justice assigned to this case.
Mr Obama’s COLB from factcheck.org:
http://cdn.factcheck.org/imagefiles/Ask%20FactCheck%20Images/Obama%20Birth%20Certificate/BO%20Birth%20Certificate.jpg
Obama has released what is known as a short-form birth certificate rather than a copy of the original long-form. Both the short-form birth certificate of Barack Obama and the long-form birth certificate of John McCain are available online; Obama’s short-form was laser-printed and dated June 6, 2007. Why won’t Obama release the original long-form birth certificate?
FYI California I challanged the eligiblity of individual NY Electors in NYS SC 29641-2008.
— On Fri, 11/14/08, Christopher Strunk wrote:
From: Christopher Strunk
Subject: 10 AM 11-17-08 Appearance for Proposed Order to Show Cause in NYS-SC 29642-2008
To: joel.graber@oag.state.ny.us, “Kimberly Galvin”
Cc: jpines@law.nyc.gov
Date: Friday, November 14, 2008, 2:15 PM
The Second Circuit has Denied my Motion for Writ of Mandamus as of today (see attached orders)
On Monday 11-17-08, I am presenting a proposed Order to Show Cause for emergency relief in the Case with Index No.: 29642/2008 at which I am requesting your attendance for a preliminary hearing before Justice Schmidt.
I am requesting:
1. a Judicial Subpoena of the US State Department for the travel documents from 1960 through 1963 for Stanley Ann Dunham (Obama)
2. That the Documents be provided to each of the Elected Electoral College slate and their filled vacancies before their certification on or about December 1, 2008;
3. That until such time that the documents are provided there shall be a stay upon the New York Electoral College from voting on or after December 15, 2008 and / or as to the nationa elelctoral college of each State of the several States
4. Until the stay is lifted for New York by the U.S. Supreme Court or the Justice assigned to this case with concurrent original jurisdiction over the national Electoral College.
I will have a hard copy of the papers available on Monday morning and by email in preparation prior to that time.
For further discussion feel free to contact me:
Christopher Strunk
(845) 901-6767
Furthermore, notwithstanding anything which is ordered by Justice Schmidt I am in the process of filing for a stay under the appeal of the denial of the 08-5422_OP second circuit proceeding as to which the US Supreme has appellate responsibility without any need for a motion for certiorari and that the U.S. Supreme Court under rules 22 and 23 will be filed on or about Tuesday 11/18/08 – hopefully with an order of the NYS SC in case with Index no.: 29642-08.
PLEASE…Just go to this reputible website, and READ and LEARN, then drop it.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
Question. Were both his parents US citizens? If both were then the lawsuit doesn’t stand much of a chance.
Regarding post #10: “I was born in Germany, but I’ve been told that since my father was serving in the US Army, I would not be precluded from running for president. Obama’s mother would be in no official US capacity while overseas.”
The distinction you make has no basis in established constitutional law.
One has to ask Why Obama does’nt just provide a birth certificate and end all this ? A colb is not a birth certificate. These things sould be on record and on file for all americans to see and McCain’s also!
Why not just file a FOIA request with the US State Dept for travel records of Stanley Ann Dunham 1960-1963 Since she is dead, there is no no way they can deny it since there is no personal info that can be compromised. Why do you need a lawsuit for this? YOU DONT
As with all the other wingnut politicians, pundits and others, Alan Keyes doesn’t matter anymore. The American people have moved on. Alan Keyes is straight out of the town of Nutcasea. Unfortunately for the rest of his fellow Nutcasea citizens, the electricity has been cut off, the stores are closed, and all of the roads have crumbled. Thank God..and God Bless America!!!
McCain was born on a Military base in Panama to a father that was a US Citizen, serving in the Army; so he was born on US Soil (since it was an Army Institution).
I believe the question is whether or not Obama’s mother was a legal citizen of the US. I do not personally think he is a citizen of this country.
If he had nothing to hide, why does he not show us the real document? Why were all his records sealed?
BTW-
factcheck.org is run by the Anneburg Foundation which is a liberal foundation. You can’t trust it just because it’s supposed to be *factual*. There is almost always an agenda.
Time to file FOIA Requests on Stanley Ann Dunham from any and all gov agencies.
Deceased Persons
You may request the records of a deceased person if you can provide proof of death. You should provide the person’s date and place of birth and a copy of the death certificate or a newspaper obituary. You should explain the type of material you seek and why you think that the Department of State would have records. Your request will be processed under provisions of the FOIA.
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/108241.pdf
In response to Ken Sturgis: As I have always said and written, and as I always will say and write, Revolutions should be non-violent. When people try to get too far ahead of the process by utilizing violence, even if their efforts are productive, the end is not worth the sneseless loss of lifes. Violence is useless.
“Not that that matters: as the child of an American citizen, he himself would be and is a natural born American citizen.”
The question here is Ann Dunham’s citizenship at the time of Obama’s birth.
If in fact Obama was born in Kenya, the laws on the books at the time of his birth stated if a child is born abroad and one parent was a U.S. Citizen, which would have been his mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, Obama’s mother would have had to live ten (10) years in the United States, five (5) of which were after the age of fourteen (14). At the time of Obama’s birth, his mother was only eighteen and therefore did not meet the residency requirements under the law to give her son (Obama) U.S. Citizenship. The laws in effect at the time of Obama’s birth prevented U.S. Citizenship at birth of children born abroad to a U.S. Citizen parent and a non-citizen parent, if the citizen parent was
under the age of nineteen (19) at the time of the birth of the child. Obama’s mother did not qualify under the law on the books to register Obama as a “natural born†citizen. Section 301(a)(7) of the Immigration and Nationality Act of June 27, 1952, 66 Stat. 163, 235, 8
U.S.C. §1401(b), Matter of S-F- and G-, 2 I & N Dec. 182 (B.I.A.) approved (Att’y Gen. 1944). Obama would have only been naturalized and a Naturalized citizen is not qualified and/or eligible to run for Office of the President. U.S. Constitution, Article II, Section I, Clause 4.
Furthermore, if Obama had been born in Kenya, his birth father Barack Obama, Sr. was a citizen of Kenya; therefore, Obama would have automatically become a citizen of Kenya.
In or about 1967, when Obama was approximately six (6) years old, his mother, Stanley Ann Dunham married Lolo Soetoro, a citizen of Indonesia and moved to Indonesia with Obama. At this time, if Obama was Registered as a “natural born†citizen, which he did not qualify to be registered as, he would have lost his U.S. Citizenship when his mother married Lolo Soetoro and took up residency in Indonesia. The first requirement is that naturalization must be achieved through “application.†Such type of naturalization occurs, for example, when a person acquires a foreign nationality by marriage to a national of that country. Nationality Act of 1940, Section 317(b).
Additionally, there is rumor circulating on the Internet that his Indonesian stepfather, Lolo Soetoro, adopted Obama.
The Nationality Act of 1940 provided for the loss of citizenship when the person became naturalized upon the naturalization of his or her parent having custody of such person. Obama’s mother expatriated her U.S. Citizenship when she married Lolo Soetoro, a citizen of
Indonesia and relocated her and her son (Obama) to Indonesia.
In 1981, Obama traveled to Pakistan using his Indonesian passport. At the time of travels to Indonesia, Obama was twenty (20) years old. He was well aware he maintained his Indonesia citizenship, and failed to regain his United States citizenship. Indonesia does not allow dual citizenship. Had Obama
regained his United States citizenship, he would have been traveling on a United States Passport.
If there was any legitimacy to this claim, then somebody else “in good standing” would have pursued it four months ago. It’s safe to assume that the GOP took a close look at this a few months ago when it was obvious they would lose. It’s safe to assume that the Clintons took a closer look at this several months ago when it was obvious they would lose.
Maybe somebody in Dan Rather’s office could come up with a Iranian birth certificate for Barack if you really, really want to pursue this further…
“If there was any legitimacy to this claim, then somebody else “in good standing†would have pursued it four months ago. It’s safe to assume that the GOP took a close look at this a few months ago when it was obvious they would lose.”
We live under a one-party system, not a two-paerty system.
Kris Overstreet: View “the grounds he is suing on” here:
http://www.soundinvestments.us/files/final_writ_keyes_v_bowen.pdf
“We DO NOT want to see a Certificate of Live Birth”
umm, I was born in Ohio and mine is entitled “Certification of Live Birth” and nowhere labeled “Birth Certificate” People trying to use this as evidence of fraud are just being intentionally dense.
I saw a news story that the state Registrar (whatever the title is in Hawaii) had so many inquiries that he and the person directly in charge of those records went in pulled the official record Certificate of Live Birth and verified it’s on file and is valid. I’m sure there are some who will immediately claim they’re part of the conspiracy because they will accept no evidence contrary to their lunatic beliefs.
@jennifer:
Yes, the Annenberg (sic) Foundation, established by a member of Ronald Reagan’s administration, is totally a Marxist front. You sure called that one.
Actually–those of you who have commented here negatively against this case haven’t dug deeply enough in your research. The COLB is considered a “short form” birth certificate and does NOT prove citizenship at all. The official birth certificate is sealed and vaulted away in Hawaii.
This is not a ridiculous request to demand that we see this documentation. It is simply done, all of the other candidates did it. But Obama has thrown this COLB out there as an evasive manuever that just makes every thinking person REALLY suspicious.
Come on Obama! Unseal your records, if you are a true citizen there should be no reason not too. And since you are going to be in the most highly classified gov. job this country has…I as a citizen of this country DEMAND that you release yours to the courts immediately. That’s the law, the Constitution, that you will be swearing to uphold. Will you consider yourself above the law on other points also? This is NOT going away. No law you sign will have to be obeyed until you prove your citizenship. Do it. Just do it.
People were upset at Bush for not presenting us the Weapons of Mass Destruction, but obama can’t even present us his real Birth certificate? We need to see the one with hospital name and doctor name…the REAL thing.
Why can’t obama be open, honest, and forthcoming about this issue NOW and simply show us instead of the stalls and cover-up? I thought people voted for CHANGE! Change we need, change we can believe!!! But obama is just giving us the same old song and dance that will rival the mess Bush has left us.
How can any man LEAD a nation with this type of constitutional question lingering over his presidency? The answer: he CAN’T lead. So what if a few rioters flip over a few police cars, we are NOT going to scrap the constitution for this man.
obama is at fault himself for not clearing this up immediately. His must NOT be a house built on sinking sand, and worst of all, “a corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit”.
If obama can’t straighten THIS “little mess” out now, he is not capable of straightening out this country at any time ever.
How can any good Democrat support this type of character where even if he DOES get into the oval office, every act of his might at any time be declared as unconstituional as his presidency and invalidated? Who has the will or reason to support that kind of junk?
OBAMA GET WITH IT OR GET OUT NOW.
So if someone is not born in a hospital and doesn’t have their birth registered, they’re ineligible for the Presidency? That would seem to be the case if the courts adopt Keyes’ standards. Given the fact that births go unregistered and documents sometimes get lost (or could be destroyed in an act of sabotage), and given the monumental disruption to the democratic process resulting from a lawsuit on the president’s eligibility, there ought to be a heavy burden of proof on the challenger.
Interesting that Keyes filed in state court and not federal court. And too bad that California has no law that permits such challenges, the way Florida, North Carolina, and Virginia do. Anyone know the list of the other states that lawsuits are being filed in?
Ha! I hate to revisit an argument we’ve had on another thread about this, but did you notice that the writ-of-mandate misquotes the Constitution by leaving out the comma before the words “at the time of the adoption of this Constitution”?
I still say that comma was there to make it clear that the requirements of being “a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States” applied ONLY to the time the Constitution was adopted. Thereafter, only the second clause about age and length of residence applies.
The fact that Keyes’ legal team is trying to force the Constitution to say something it never said in order to cast doubt on Obama’s eligibility just proves my point. Or they’re daft. (Okay, okay! I’m daft, too!)
This is the craziest shit in the world. Keyes is clogging the courts with a lawsuit that’s beyond frivolous. It’s a typical Republican move to ask a court to certify their crazy shit, just to say there’s a lawsuit “out there.” It’s going to get thrown out, and really, Keyes should have to pay some penalty for being a douchebag.
Forget about lawsuts.The best way to get rid of Obama is not to buy anything other than food until the mid term elections of 2010.No clothes,no travel,no movies,nothing.This should cause unemployment to hit about 35 per cent.Then,after the Republicans take back the House,demand that Obama and Biden simultaneously resign in order for the Republican speaker to take over.We then came resume spending.
We don’t know a dang thing about this Barak HUSSEIN Obama? Nothing. I went to his house in Chicago (the one he STOLE) and asked to look in his basement to see if there’s a voodoo altar in the bottom of it. And guess what – THEY WOULDN’T SHOW IT TO ME. They wouldn’t even admit it was there!
It’s already been proved that Barak HUSSEIN Obama is a hypnotist – why couldn’t have a faked his birth certificate??
WAKE UP AMERICA!!
It’s over neocons…you’ve lost and now you’re whining like a baby with three day old boo boo in your silk diaper. Any record of any type can be found on anyone at anytime. If rethuglian Karl Rove with his connections to the DOJ and CIA and Bushco couldn’t find any dirt on Obama, no one will, because their isn’t any. Unless of course, Obama is actually Damian from the Omen and the evil devil had him protected all of his life just for this moment…(cue jason’s slasher soundboard…ah ah ah..ju ju ju…ah ah ah…ju ju ju……ROFL!!!!
How do you conspiracy theorists explain the announcement of a son being born on August 4, 1961, to “Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama” published in the Honolulu Advertiser on August 13, 1961? Was time-travel involved in this conspiracy?
It’s reprinted on http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html . In any event, Obama’s mother was a US citizen. End of story. If ONE of your parents is a US citizen, no matter where you are born, you too are a US citizen — and in this case, the mother was a US citizen who gave birth IN the US. Desperation apparently truly knows NO bounds. Move on. Get over it.
1. OBAMA CANNOT PRODUCE A LEGITIMATE BIRTH CERTIFICATE FOR THE COURTS OR ANYONE ELSE.
2. THREE INDEPENDENT AND QUALIFIED EXPERTS PROVED THE ONE HE POSTED ON HIS WEBSITE IS A FORGERY.
3. HIS FAMILY IN KENYA HAS STATED THEY WITNESSED HIS BIRTH IN KENYA.
4. AFTER OBAMA’S VISIT TO HAWAII, THE LOCAL RECORDER MADE A STATEMENT THAT HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE ON FILE THERE IS LEGITIMATE, BUT DID NOT SHOW IT, DID NOT NAME A HOSPITAL, AND DID NOT STATE WHERE HE WAS BORN. BECAUSE IT’S AN OUT-OF-STATE BIRTH REGISTRATION. HE WAS BORN IN KENYA. OBAMA IS A FRAUD.
…
It is amazing “the blind leading the blind” fits so well with the Obamaniacs. A COLB is NOT an original birth certificate, especially since it’s printed by a Laserjet on paper dated 2001 in the lower left corner! And since when does a jpeg file posted to the internet qualify as proper government identification? I’m going to post my COLB on a BLOG and try to get a driver’s license by insisting the DMV view the BLOG!!! Hah!!!
Factcheck is run by Annenburg, which Obama chaired. It doesn’t matter who started Annenburg 2 decades ago–what matters is who rules it now!
BTW, Snopes is run by liberal socialists as well.
It is absolutely ABSURD the BS that the Obamaniacs will say or do to SAVE their MESSIAH!!
“How do you conspiracy theorists explain the announcement of a son being born on August 4, 1961, to “Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama†published in the Honolulu Advertiser on August 13, 1961? Was time-travel involved in this conspiracy?”
Given that Obama was born in Kenya, how do you explain this alleged news article in the Honolulu Advertiser?
If your mom is a US citizen, moves to another country, gets married to a native, and has a kid there, her kid is not a US citizen.
“It’s a typical Republican move to ask a court to certify their crazy shit, just to say there’s a lawsuit “out there.—
Berg is a democrat.
[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.
(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.
(c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]
Vol06_Ch0321-0344
If Barak HUSSIEN Obama was an American then why did he have to be told to salute the flag and wear a flag pin?? You would THINK he’d know that! But he didn’t! Something stinks about this whole thing and it smells like camel poop!
“A child born abroad on or after December 24, 1952 and before November 14, 1986 to one U.S. citizen parent and one non-citizen parent can acquire U.S. citizenship at birth if the U.S. citizen parent can demonstrate that he or she was physically present in the United States for a minimum of ten years, at least five of which were after the age of fourteen, prior to the birth of the child.”
Because Barack’s mother — born November 29, 1942 — bore him at the age of 18 years, eight months plus, she could not possibly qualify for the five year requirement. (A subsequent law reduced the five years to two, but only for children born after 1986, and made provisional retroactive exceptions favoring parents serving in the military or for international organization. Neither applies to Obama).
Thus the bottom line is this: If Obama can’t prove he has a certified Hawaiian birth certificate, he’s not a natural born American. If he’s not a natural born American, he can’t be president. That’s the law of the land.
…
Don’t worry folks, Mr. Korir of African Press International told me their tapes with the shocking admissions from Michelle Obama regarding her husband’s citizenship will be played on Fox News any day now!!! Keep the faith.
That’s right after they play the “whitey” tape too, right? And after they have Larry Sinclair on. And after…and after…and after.
Kids – none of your silly little scandals have come to pass. It’s really time to slink back to the compound and start planning for your glorious overthrow of the gov’t led by the Alaska Separatist Party.
My impression is that most of the desperate attempts to paint a negative picture about President-Elect Barack Obama are based on lunacy and racism. It is pointless to continue debating with these people. The courts will take care of the matter. In the meantime, the GOP can continue to pack its bags. It is truly a new day in America. The neo-fascist Republican Party has been defeated and anyone who is still in the GOP (and not ashamed of the fact that he or she is) had just better get used to the change. They had also better get used to being in a minor-sized party because that will be the case by 2012 – no later than that.
“Given that Obama was born in Kenya, how do you explain this alleged news article in the Honolulu Advertiser?”
Since when is that a “given”? You have absolutely zero proof; you have one obviously confused elderly relative. The State of Hawaii made a declaration that Obama WAS born there after all this kerfuffle.
Do you honestly think that Obama’s parents foresaw, back in the early 1960s when race relations were not exactly great, that their newborn son would run for President someday so they’d better cover his behind by rushing to Hawaii and getting a COLB and placing an announcement in a local paper? Silliest. Conspiracy. Theory. Ever.
“One of Keyes’s attorneys in this new lawsuit, Gary Kreep, won the court battle over whether Keyes or Baldwin should be on the California ballot, even though Kreep had the disadvantage of arguing on speakerphone (while the attorney on the other side was in the courtroom). So don’t underestimate him.”
Richard, you are an old friend and have forgotten more about election law and ballot access than I will ever know, but come on now…the case wasn’t won on the merits. The judge wanted an excuse to do nothing and found it in stretching
the “indispensible parties” rule to include Alan Keyes so he could dismiss the case without prejudice on procedural grounds. True, Kreep did have to come up with that argument, but knowing how my ex-friend Mark Seidenberg operates with his numerous lawyers, I would say that there is an excellent chance that it was actually Mark who came up with that defense and did whatever research was done on it and possibly even wrote the response (which was otherwise of rather poor quality).
Of course, giving the devil his due does not mean that he is not still a devil. The hijackers behind this lawsuit may be currently be registered AIP, but they are really Republicans in their sympathies and objectives. They are pariahs as far as the rank and file activists of the AIP are concerned.
There may be legitimate efforts concerning this issue, including the work done by Dr. Jerome Corsi, but this lawsuit is not one of them.
The Office of the President IS a very big deal. As with any important position in any corporation, it is important to verify qualifications. I mean, we aren’t just handing over the keys to the Porche, it is the keys to the entire nation. I say the American people deserve to see the proof. He needs to be qualified under the constitution, if not get him out of here.
Here is a State of Hawaii Certificate of Live Birth from 1963 http://snarkybytes.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/hawaii-birth-certificate-1963.jpg notice that the information is typed. Here is Barrack Obama’s http://www.barackobama.com/images/fts/BO_birthcert.jpg notice anything different?
I think Obama has some explaining to do.
Are you seriously askign WHY we would want to know if the man who is about to take over leadership of our country is really legally allowed to??? What is wrong with you?
One of you asked why they didnt ask McCain. THEY DID. there were lawsuits for him too. However, since he did not win, it no longer matters. THAT is why they are still and only asking Obama for the documents.
And for you who says “Its on the internet!!!”
Yanno, the other day, I saw a photograph of a horse with a lions head! that MUST be a true and legal document, because it was ONLINE!!! Again, what is wrong with you???
Anyone can post anything they dang well please online, and you know it.
Regardless, they are not asking Obama to saw off his arm, they are asking for pieces of paper that any American should be willing and able to show, ESP when the supreme court asks for them! What is SO hard about saying “here you go boys! now swear me in!”
nothing, if you HAVE the papers. if he doesnt, then he needs to stop dragging it out and say so.
This is like the Bush/Gore election all over again!
And what kind of picture does this show our kids? If you stall enough, people will drop it? I dont think so, Mr. Obama. Be a man and face it. Either prove it, or if you cant, get out.
You people are insane. I only hope you are too delusional to successfully procreate.
there have been college football coaches fired because they faked experience on their resume’s. We had a state senator here in Wisconsin five years ago who faked her college degree from 20 years earlier.
No, it was not the grand conspiracy of the ages, but the voters kicked her out.
oh and i have been finding that the people who are against this lawsuit, as usual, have nothing real to say except things like “You people are insane. I only hope you are too delusional to successfully procreate.” they dont have a REAL dispute to this. Right on, losers.
@Kris Overstreet
He probably did provide documents as you said. But according to the Constitution of the United State of America:
Age and Citizenship requirements – US Constitution, Article II, Section 1
No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.
The “or a citizen of the United States” phrase is a more explicit qualification of the previous phrase “natural born citizen.” This is why naturalized citizens can never become President.
Since Obama does not have a vault birth certificate, he cannot prove he is a “natural born citizen” by himself. He may or may not find witnesses that will testify on his behalf, but there are already African relatives of his that have said he was born in Kenya. Ultimately the court will have to decide, but truthfully he is therefore ineligible to be President.
I think the burden of proof is on Obama. The Certificate of Live Birth does not prove he was born in Hawaii. It just informs the state about his birth. Lack of proof is therefore no proof and therefore he is ineligible to be President. The court will have to decide. If nothing else it will be interesting.
all the information is here
http://saveourrights.wikia.com/wiki/Overview
God Bless!
Petiotion about Barak Hussein Obama
http://www.rallycongress.com/constitutional-qualification/1244/stop-obama-constitutional-crisis
See the article at http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=80931!!!
Additional info:
While Berg’s suit heads for the Supreme Court, where it may well be dismissed, upholding the lower court’s “lack of standing” ruling… Alan Keyes and others are suing to keep CALIFORNIA’s electoral votes from being granted to Obama until he proves his eligibility. This is the latest in a series of more than 10 active suits in a variety of states. Andy Martin is suing in the State of HI to force production of the original Birth Certificate document. The Secretaries of State in a number of states are being challenged in court to verify eligibility before certifying the electoral votes. The constitutional eligibility question is far from settled, however it is a greater crisis since Obama won the election!
Here’s a listing of some active suits…
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=80928
Obama has put forth only a “Certification of live birth”, which is NOT A Birth Certificate!
After months and months of unrequited requests, the Obama campaign did finally present a document which they claimed validated his eligibility (per the Constitution of the Unted States, Article II, Section I) as a “Natural born citizen” to have his name on the ballot in contention for the office of the President of the United States of America.
However, what the Obama campaign supplied was not, in fact, a “birth certificate”. What they supplied was actually a “Certificate of Live Birth.” There is a major difference between a “birth certificate” and a “Certificate of Live Birth.”
Aside from the level of detail differentiating the documents (hospital of record, doctor, height, weight, etc) – in the state of Hawaii, one authenticates natural born citizenship, and the other doesn’t. This part is important; – it has nothing to do with tin foil hats.
Per the State of Hawaii’s Department of Health, “Amended certificates of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for 1) a person born in Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or 2) a person born in a foreign country.” (For citation purposes, please feel free to visit their site: http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/index.html ).
The “Certificate of Live Birth” provided by Obama, is in fact, a derivative of the “Amended certificates of birth” they site. Why is that important? Because of that second clause in the above citation. While you may show citizenship via such a document, you do not necessarily prove “natural born” citizenship. “Natural born citizenship” is what is required to be eligible to be considered for the Presidency, per the United States Constitution.
The form Obama posted wouldn’t even be acceptable to make an application in Hawaii’s Home Lands Program!
From: http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl
In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL.
THIS is a HI Birth Certificate:
And this is the Certificate of Live Birth posted on Obama’s website:
Notice any differences?
Hospital of birth? Residence address of mother? Birthplace of parents? SIGNATURE OF ATTENDANT AT BIRTH?
What Obama has posted IS NOT A BIRTH CERTIFICATE!
There is a further complication, however. His subsequent adoption by Lolo Soetoro and resultant INDONESIAN citizenship is a bigger fly in his ointment. (I laugh whenever reference is made to “citizen of the WORLD’… Obama truly is a WORLD CITIZEN!)
Indonesia, at the time Obama lived there and was deemed an Indonesian citizen, did not recognize dual citizenship, and neither did the US recognize dual citizenship with Indonesia. Thus, whether he held dual citizenship with the US and Kenya, whether he was born in the US or Kenya, or even – as some suggest – CANADA, is irrelevant as the ONLY legitimate citizenship he held once his adopted father moved him to Indonesia was Indonesian! His US Citizenship would be forfeit!
http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/09/05/breaking-photo-documents-barry-soetoro-indonesian/
Image
Whether and when Barry Soetoro/Barack Obama might have regained US Citizenship thereafter, it would be thru NATURALIZATION and that is SPECIFICALLY and EXPRESSLY ineligible to serve as President of the United States under Title II. (Could this be why he uses the politically risky name Barack Hussein Obama instead of the more innocuous “Barry Soetoro”? Perhaps Barry Soetoro is STILL an Indonesian citizen? Perhaps there are naturalization papers in the name of Barry Soetoro? I’m just asking…)
There is no requirement that presidential electors meet at the state capitol, or even in the state capital city. In 2000 and 2004, at least, the Alaska electors met in Anchorage.
*natural born* has to do with AT BIRTH *ALLEGIANCE* to a regime — primitive stuff from the bad old days of feudalism in the DARK AGE after the fall of the Roman Empire with the various EVIL feudal monarchies and oligarchies in Europe — even up to 1787.
See Blackstone’s Commentaries AND the 1866 debates in the U.S.A. Senate on the citizen sentence in 14th Amdt, Sec. 1.
Any mere law can NOT change the meaning of constitutional language.
The question is whether or not having a U.S.A. citizen mother ONLY is enough to make the kid a *natural born* citizen (assuming the mother is actually a U.S.A. citizen).
See Art. III, Sec. 2 for the LIMITED number of State and foreign human parties in cases — i.e. NO mention of any dual citizenship type stuff — i.e. ONE nation-state connection for each person.
Any emergency constitutional amendments being worked on — just in case things get OUT of CONTROL ?
Phil Sawyer Says:
November 16th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
If President-Elect Barack Obama was to be denied taking office, there would be a Revolution in this country.
Following the Constitution & protecting isn’t important to you? It isn’t to the Big O either obviously.
Regarding Madhatter #24 post. Not that it matters, but even if I were born in a US Army hospital?
Interesting stuff!
I took a look at the image of McCain’s “long form” birth certificate mentioned in comment #20, and it wasn’t signed by the attending physician! It wasn’t even signed by a registrar! It was notarized 7 years after he was born! It’s a fake! He ran for President in violation of the Constitution! I can’t believe McCain was never born! Oh, the humanity!!!!! ; )
I can’t wait until 2012 when Sarah Palin and Alan Keyes run as the presidential and vice presidential candidates on the Republican ticket. Then, we’ll have our first Christian presidential team ever! I’m a big fan of Billy Bob Neck who gave us his nuggets of wisdom in comments 44 and 52. He looks like the lie-beral Paul Day, but I wouldn’t hold that against him.
forest center:
“If President-Elect Barack Obama was to be denied taking office, there would be a Revolution in this country.”
… and that would be a bad thing? The answer to 1984 is 1776.
It amazes me that all of the Barach-opods use the same “proven to be fake” document on his web site to substantiate his eligibility to be POTUS. BHO is a charlatan and will soon be exposed for exactly what he is. There would not even be a shred of contention if the worlds most famous Kenyan would submit a legitimate document. (Not the fake photoshoped one). There are at least a dozen other documents i.e., colledge transcripts, passport, etc that he refuses to release. The only reason for this is that he is hiding something. When are you Barach-opods ever going to wake up and put country first. I can’t believe his promise of a welfare check (Disguised as a tax rebate)is more important to you then our constitution. I believe a revolution might be the only answer.
This is nothing but mental masturbation (not that there is anything wrong with masturbation, per se). The case has no merit. Obama was born in Hawaii. Show me the “long form” birth certificates of Bush II, Clinton, Bush I, Reagan and back to Geo Washington.
Even if the case had merit, if you think some judge is going to take it upon him or herself to overrule 65 million voters, I’d like a hit of what you’re smoking. As Justice Jackson said, “the Constitution is not a suicide pact.” The harm done to the country, the financial markets and the world by a prolonged period of legal wrangling would be simply unconscionable. Keyes had 2 years from when Obama announced he was running to raise this issue. Why now? The election is over. Don’t worry though, you can raise this again in 2012.
As far as historical precedent, this issue was raised regarding Chester Arthur, who may well have been born in Canada, where his parents farmed, and brought to Vermont at the age of 1. That didn’t stop him from serving out his wonderfully mediocre Presidency, and the Republic and Constitution survived (though Arthur dies shortly after leaving office).
I saw Obama interview on news yesterday Sunday…cabinet appointees? He said, “Soon….soon” You can tell by the look on his face the wind is OUT of his sails. Obama knows it is over and knows he is exposed by Keyes suit that was filed Friday…BYEBAMA….
Is Obama above the law of the Land????? If so a true terrorist can run for U.S. President and not have credibility required.
If any of you Obama supporters think there will be a “revolution” if he is determined ineligible, just wait until he starts trying to implement his Dictatorial agenda.
Either way, hell is coming to America…hell is coming.
The Constitution was created by the STATES — Article VII.
Regardless of the MORON limitations regarding standing for individuals created out of thin air by the Supremes in the 1920s, each State surely has standing to cause the Constitution NOT to be violated by the fictional U.S.A. government and real U.S.A. officers / employees.
Thus which State regime will file its case regarding Obama’s qualifications ???
State of _____ v. Obama in a U.S.A. District Court.
Any Republican Attorney Generals in any States ???
re Mr. Reality, it is a matter of standing. The lawsuits prior to the election that challenge a candidate are routinely thrown out for lack of standing since no “harm” has been done. The case is not “ripe”. And yes, I would hope that the Supreme Court of the United States would take their oath to uphold the Constitution seriously. If they don’t, we have gone from a country of law to a country of men. It would be disruptive to be sure, but there are sufficient problems with this guys eligibility that it should be demonstrated that he is indeed eligible. If he is eligible to serve, he serves. If not, he can’t. As far as Chester Arthur goes. That is not relevant.
Obama was born in Hawaii. Even if he wasn’t, wouldn’t the common law precedent of “officer de facto” apply to him once the electoral college certifies him? In the 19th century, a lawsuit was filed to overturn the results of an election because the selectman certifying the votes was later found not to be a citizen of the United States as required by law. The courts wouldn’t overturn the election results even though technically speaking the selectman couldn’t certify them. The selectman was considered an “officer de facto” and his acts as selectman were deemed as valid as those of an “officer de jure.” There also have been cases where judges were required by law to take oaths of office, but neglected to do so. People tried to have those judges’ rulings overturned on technicality, but again, the precedent of “officer de facto” meant their rulings couldn’t be overturned. Any lawyers out there aware of the “officer de facto” precedent?
NIGHTMARE IDEA
I know this sounds REALLY nuts
BUT
What if…Barry hasn’t provided a normal birth cert. because he knew there would be a controversy, and he was betting that a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT will be passed to allow him to be President, and that AMENDMENT will open the door for OTHER elected officials to step in as President or to RUN FOR PRESIDENT in the near future?
ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT IS COMING/?????????What do you think of this ?????????
Not only is Barrak Obama not eligible to be president, there will be much, more serious charges in the very near future. You will hear about the real power behind BO. Her name is Michelle. Suggest you go to http://www.hawkscafe.com and learn the facts about this and other crimes of Obama and Wife Michelle and all their criminal friends.
It should be apparent that Obama and the DNC do not want to risk showing any evidence for fear that if it is discovered that the documents are forged or there was an error in reporting his citizenship or birth status, there could be criminal charges. As soon as they show any evidence they will be open to potential criminal investigations (recall problems of Nixon, Clinton and others?)
When and where did Obama’s parents get married ?
Shr-Nfr: The issue of standing has nothing to do with pre vs post election. It has to do with specific vs general effect of the actions. Candidates (in this case Keyes) have standing because they are specifically affected by the presence of other candidates; non-candidates have no standing. Pre-election challenges of candidates by their opponents are not new; for example, in legislative races, where issues of residency within a district sometimes arise.
I don’t know hwy you think the case of Chester Arthur is irrelevant. He was a President whom some opponents charged was not a “natural-born citizen”. Seems awfully close to what is alleged here.
The fact is Obama’s birth certificate has been vouched for by the State of Hawaii and has been accepted by the US government in assigning him a social security #, giving him a passport, etc.. It has also been accepted by the state of Illinois for driver’s licence, law licence, etc. Order up your own birth certificate from your home jurisdiction and you will get exactly what he got.
To counter that will take much more solid evidence than the “rememberings” of an elderly woman about an event from 47 years ago, translated by some unknown party. I am going to say (and you can flame me if you’d like) that demanding a level of proof for Obama that was not demanded for any of the previous 43 Presidents smacks of something unsavory and desperate.
Regarding Post #72: “Not that it matters, but even if I were born in a US Army hospital?”
Whether your parent was overseas in an “official US capacity” has no bearing on whether you are a natural born U.S. citizen.
Children of federal employees do not get the special right that you claimed. Being born in a U.S. Army hospital does not change that.
Please note that, although the law is not settled on this point, I do believe that you are a natural born citizen by virtue of your father’s U.S. citizenship at the time of your birth. (You did not actually say that your father was a U.S. citizen, but that seems to be your implication.) If Barack Obama had been born overseas, I believe he would also be a natural born citizen by virtue of his mother’s U.S. citizenship at the time of his birth. Whether or not she was on the U.S. federal payroll at the time is constitutionally irrelevant.
#19….factcheck.org….if you research it is owned by bill ayers friend…coincidence?
The state of Hawaii has declared the birth certificate genuine. (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iw1At-4G1xuE50oXVFRlBPfR3dqgD945OLU00) Keyes can file all the papers he wants – the truth is simple. Obama is a US Citizen.
I find it absolutely amazing that people could be so ignorant as to suggest that Barack Obama has in fact provided proof of his citizenship. The only document Mr. Obama has provided (and there’s some question as to whether or not the document is authentic) is a Certification of Live Birth from the State of Hawaii which IS NOT a “Birth Certificate”. As for the notion that if Mr. Obama were denied the “right” to serve would lead to a “revolution” says quite a bit about the left in this country. So if Mr. Obama doesn’t meet the eligibility requirements under the U.S. Constitution we’re supposed to just let him and the Democrat Party hijack the country? If Mr. Obama is NOT Constitutionally qualified to take the oath of office on January 20th, both he and the Democrat party have perpetrated a fraud on the American people the likes of which we’ve not seen in this country’s 232 year history. Barack Obama MUST BE REQUIRED to provide all (original) documents relevant to his birth and citizenship!
Not a Birthcertificate….he only posted a record of a live birth…which is a record stating that his mother had given birth to a live baby.. 10 year genealogist.
And how did he get into indonesia when he was in his twenties as americans were not allowed in that country at that time?
oh…and the barack obama family tree on ancestry.com …..is on lockdown and is no longer a public tree…hmmm
Well to the person that said Barack provided proper documentation, you are wrong. The document was a “Certification of Live Birth” not a “Certificate of Live Birth,” that is a big difference, get your facts straight.
Obama’s mama did not love in the USA long enough. Which is 5 years after 14 for Barry to get US citizenship passed to him by his mother.
Start with what laws were in effect in 1961 then the US constition. More like vise versa but maybe the kool-aid will wear off when you actually READ THE CONSTITUTION!!!!
The latest theory from other “nut-jobs-just-like-me†– – (we may be right…)
1.)Allegedly, Obama was born in Kenya, where his given name was “Barack Hussein Mohammed Obamaâ€
2.)Allegedly, no long form original birth record exists in Hawaii. The “original recordâ€, (i.e., the “long formâ€) as it was executed in many States back in 1961, was simply a little index card, or a 5†X 7†form, that was generally signed off on by a doctor, or a nurse, or a midwife, or whoever actually witnessed the birth. The so-called long form, if it exists, is the Holy Grail sought after in this particular exercise.
3.)As this theory goes, Obama’s mom falsely “registered†his birth in Hawaii, using the so-called “short form by declaration†method (look it up) which was legal in Hawaii thru 1972, and could be legally executed based on only the testimony of the parent, with no evidence or doctor’s statement or hospital record or witnesses.
4.)A legal birth certificate can be produced at any time from the short-form database record, and is generally not questioned. However, if Obama’s real birth certificate exists in Kenya, and if there is no long form on record in Hawaii, then the Supreme Court faces a Constitutional nightmare.
The above points, 1-4, exist as the latest theory regarding the Obama birth certificate issue. The “short-form by declaration†conspiracy isn’t much of a conspiracy, and if true, I am disappointed. I was really hoping for an elaborate and entertaining conspiracy. If Obama was born in Kenya, and if his mom simply traveled back to Hawaii with him shortly thereafter, and falsely declared his birth, (including the newspaper announcement) then she alone broke the law, without the assistance of any co-conspirators.
Too simple…
. . .
Where this may end up – –
The Electoral College meets (in each of the 50 States) on December 15.
According to the 20th Amendment, the Electors CLEARLY have legal standing to question the qualifications of the “Presumptive-President-Elect†(Obama is not really the President-Elect until after the Electoral College votes on 15-DEC-2008)
The 20th Amendment identifies the Electoral College as the place & time to challenge a candidate’s credentials…(Age and Citizenship)
An awful lot can happen between now and 15-December-2008
And, it really is that simple… If Obama was born in Kenya, then he is not eligible to hold the office of President of the United States of America (See Article II, Clause V of the Constitution )
. . .
Simply stated, this is a neat little conspiracy theory, as it has evolved, that seems to fit all known facts:
1.)Obama’s Kenya Grandmom has testified that Obama was born in Kenya;
2.)The Kenyan government will not admit if there is or is not an Obama birth record on file in Kenya, and they have denied all access to any Kenya government records relating to Obama;
3.)The long form vault record in Hawaii, if it exists, has allegedly not been examined, and Obama has refused to allow it to be examined.
I hope that the 9 Old Men on the Supreme Court can be made to understand that there are three types of documents or birth certificate records:
a.)The so-called birth certificate, which we have all seen on the Internet, and which may be created at any time from the data contained in either the long form physical record or the short form database record;
b.)The short form record could easily be bogus, in the scenario illustrated in the opening of my post, points 1-4;
c.)The long form physical record is harder to fake, and no one has seen that record.
These are the facts, and the facts fit the so-called “conspiracy theoryâ€. The Electors have the right to challenge Obama on three points: (1.)Does a Kenyan birth record exist? (2.)Does a Hawaii long form original vault record exist? (3.)Forensics – – The Justice Department could simply send a forensic team to look at the original vault record, in order to at least verify the signatures and to verify that the ink and paper are the same age and type as the ink and paper on other sequential original records before and after Obama’s 1961 vault record original.
I have a little different perspective on this than most of you. I am a 59 year old American engineer. I have not been back to the USA since 2002. I live and work in Bangkok, Thailand. There is a place on Khao San Road, here in Bangkok, where I can have any raised impression seal made for about $10-USD and any rubber stamp made for about $2-USD. The paper that you see on FactCheck and Obama’s web site (The laser print job) is a recently produced certificate of life birth. (“COLBâ€) It was printed on a common style 25 pound bond 8.5†X 11†security paper known as “Check Protect, Basket Weave Pattern, Greenâ€. I have an entire ream of it at the office. We use that paper to print machinery inspection certificates. Anyone can buy that paper, and it is the most common paper still in use by State agencies. My graphic artists and the guys on Khao San Road could whip out a beautiful COLB in under 48 hours, and you would never detect the difference.
Sadly, those are the facts.
After reading these entries I must say many of you should look up the pertinent clauses and amendments in and too the Constitution and the antecedent laws in effect at the time of Senator Obama’s birth. Will, you’re close. It should read “10 years in the US, 5 of which are after the age of 16”. Any of you that think just because Senator Obama’s momma was a US citizen he is need to bone up on the law. Now, I have no idea who’s right or wrong on this issue. I do know the COLB I saw both at the official Obama site and at factcheck were incomplete. One may find it intersting that Obama worked with the Annenberg Challenge Project (along with Bill Ayres…but that’s a different story). This would be the same Annenberg of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of which FactCheck.org is a pet project.
Regardless, I just want to see the real documents so we all can get on with it.
If there are riots over Obama being denied office, THEY BELONG IN HIS FRONT YARD!!! Obama will be the only one to blame…
Consider that neither the U.S. Supreme Court, nor any inferior court, has jurisdiction in this matter.
Consider the Congress the sole appropriate authority to pass on the “qualifications” of the presidential candidate when the returns of the Electors are presented. When Presidential Electors cast their ballots for a candidate(s,) those candidates must meet the Constitutional qualifications as judged by the Congress alone.
Who in the Congress would raise this challenge to Mr. Obama’s qualifications? Likely, no one.
Nevertheless, a more interesting scenario arises if the matter is challenged in Congress. Would this also prevent Sen. Biden from taking office as Vice-President?
If not, then could Vice-President Biden then take power as Acting President under the 25th Amendment pending the Congress’ resolution of the matter of Mr. Obama’s qualification?
This scenario is also controversial because a reading of the 25th Amendment appears to me to assume that a President has already qualified and taken office before its provisions can be applied under Section 4 to allow the Veep to become Acting President. So the 25th Amendment may be inapplicable.
Keep in mind the popular vote has nothing to do with this process under the Constitution.
However, what if the Congress did disqualify Obama? The Congress could choose a President from the top three candidates for President? Could they choose Senator Biden President? He didn’t run for President. If Obama were disqualified, would that also disqualify Mr. Biden for Vice President?
Supposing the Congress refused to elect second place Mr. McCain either, then who else received any votes from the Electors – the third candidate? We don’t know yet. Likely there will be no third one.
When the Congress has no third candidate receiving an Elector’s vote, what are they to do if the first candidate(s)is disqualified, they refuse to elect the second candidate(s), and there is NO THIRD candidate(s)?
It appears the U.S. Constitution is a very sketchy document with many potential IEDs (Improbable Electoral Decisions) possible. The people who draft these laws and Constitutional Amendments are not nearly as smart or far-seeing as they would like us to believe.
All this controversy will be deemed moot as soon as the Congress accepts the returns of the Electors in Obama’s favor.
In my previous post #101 I said, “If Obama were disqualified, would that also disqualify Mr. Biden for Vice President?”
The answer is clearly no. The Congress would still declare Mr. Biden as elected Vice-President regardless of Mr. Obama’s disqualification. But this not would remove the ambiguity or applicability of the 25th Amendment. It appears there is no Constitutional path for Mr. Biden to be elevated to President by the House. He might become de facto President by serving as if he were Acting President for the full four year term – even though no person was ever previously chosen President for him to succeed under the 25th Amendment.
Nor is there any Constitutional provision for the ‘Acting’ President to appoint an “Acting Vice-President” with the consent of Congress. There would be no Acting Vice-President while Mr. Biden, as Vice President, served as de facto Acting President for four years.
If Mr. Biden as Acting President died or was incapacitated – even temporarily, who would succeed him? The Speaker of the House of Representatives would become President, if Mr. Biden died. But if Mr. Biden became temporarily incapacitated, then the role is the Speaker is not clear. Would The Speaker become a Temporary Acting President?
Very confusing.
See the discussion of the 25th Amendment at Wikipedia.
What might become of Mr. Obama, if disqualified from the Presidency? He is also disqualified from the Vice-Presidency.
There is no Constitutional provision for an Acting Vice President under the 25th either if Mr. Biden becomes Acting President.
But Mr. Obama could hold any other office; for instance, he could be appointed a Justice of the Supreme Court.
Or, since Mr. Obama has resigned as Senator from Illinois and if disqualified from the Presidency and if the Governor of Illinois has no appointed a successor, then Mr. Obama could be appointed Senator again.
The 25th Amendment and the Presidential Succession Act do not over ride other provisions of the Constitution. For example, The Speaker of the House of Representatives is third in line for the Presidency. But the Constitution does not require the Speaker to be a natural citizen, or ten years a resident. A Speaker can rise to be President, even though not qualified by birth or residence, but she/he could not run for election as President (or Vice-President) subsequently.
I do believe that the one person who can settle this is President Bush. As president he swore to protect and uphold the constitution. It would be wonderful if he grew a pair in Deember and made Obama give up the records or step down. What the hell does he care his reputation would not be hurt any. If anything it might save it. Everyone needs to write him and the US supreme court justices before this illegal alien takes the white house
“Even if a person is born outside the United States, courts have ruled any child born to at least one U.S. citizen is a U.S. citizen. Stanley Ann Dunham would have counted even if Obama’s Kenyan father did not.
The legal definition in 1961 of how parents could be called U.S. citizens for this purpose was that a person would be considered a “natural born citizen” if either parent was a citizen who had lived at least 10 years in the U.S., including five years after the age of 14—in other words, 19.
Dunham was three months shy of her 19th birthday when Obama was born. But subsequent acts of Congress relaxed the requirement to five years in the U.S., including just two years after the age of 14, meaning Dunham could have been 16 and still qualified even if Obama was born in another country. Congress made the law retroactive to 1952, doubly covering Obama.
Any legal challenge would have to argue that Congress can’t make someone retroactively a citizen at birth, and prove Obama was born outside of the U.S. after all.”
The issue is a diversion to legal technicalities in order to avoid the shock of racial demographic change.
The only really interesting information is whether his birth certificate has him as a muslim as that would make hime an apostate or murtadd which is a capital offence against every muslim (a zionist agenda showing here?) Remember one of the first things bush did after the election was to talk to the saudi’s about how important it was that muslims hhad the freedom to convert awaay from islam.
Alan Keyes answers Obama’s Kenyan Birth Question here:
http://www.keyesarchives.com/transcripts.php
Steve Matzberg Show (WABC, New York, August 15, 2004)
MALZBERG: And, of course, Obama born to a Kenyan and, I believe, a white American female–you believe without that history cannot feel what you feel to that extent?
KEYES: Well, I wouldn’t want to make any judgments, but I think that folks need to think about this, because the contrast in our views is related to the fact that I have been wrestling with something all my life that perhaps he hasn’t had to take as seriously.
There is every reason to question and have this answered. Those that state “Obama has provided his Birth Certificate already, it’s posted on the internet”…you need to view what is posted…it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see both that are posted are bogus. The last time I checked we still live in the United States of America and the US Constitution is the basis and foundation for our governement…if the Constitution is not upheld as it is written then we as a nation will fall…
The US Constitution stipulates: “No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States…”
To uphold the Constitution includes making sure that the Presidential candidate is eligible to serve as President pursuant to Article II, Section 1 of our United States Constitution and that such candidate runs a fair and legitimate campaign.
In vetting the Presidential candidate the DNC and FEC are required to ensure the eligibility requirements pursuant to our Constitution are met and the Presidential candidate, if elected, would be eligible to serve as President. To be eligible and qualified to run for and/or serve for Office of the President of the United States a person must be a “natural born†citizen. United States Constitution, Article II, Section I. The natural born citizen clause has prohibited many prominent Americans from becoming President, including Governor Schwarzenegger and former Secretaries of State Madeleine Albright and Henry Kissinger.
The DNC has nominated Obama as the Democratic candidate for President of the United States.
There are many unanswered questions regarding Obama’s citizenship status:
1. Is Obama a “natural born†United States citizen?
2. Is Obama a “naturalized†United States citizen?
3. Is Obama a citizen of Indonesia?
Thanks to the lawsuit filed by Philip Berg, Obama ADMITS (on his “Fight the Smears” website and factcheck.org) that he held dual citizenship with Kenya as a child. This, in and of itself, may arguably disqualify him under Article II as the whole point of the “Natural Born Citizen” requirement is the avoidance of divided allegiances. (Which makes his covert and quite possibly illegal activities [Logan Act?] on behalf of Kenya’s thugocrat, Odinga, all the more relevant and disturbing.)
There is a further complication, however. His subsequent adoption by Lolo Soetoro and resultant INDONESIAN citizenship is a bigger fly in Obama’s ointment. (I laugh whenever reference is made to “citizen of the WORLD’… Obama truly is a WORLD CITIZEN!)
Indonesia, at the time Obama lived there and was deemed an Indonesian citizen, did not recognize dual citizenship, and neither did the US recognize dual citizenship with Indonesia. Thus, whether he held dual citizenship with the US and Kenya, whether he was born in the US or Kenya, or even – as some suggest – CANADA, is irrelevant as the ONLY legitimate citizenship he held once his adopted father moved him to Indonesia was Indonesian! His US Citizenship would have been forfeited!
Whether and when Barry Soetoro/Barack Obama might have regained US Citizenship thereafter, it would be thru NATURALIZATION and that is SPECIFICALLY and EXPRESSLY ineligible to serve as President of the United States under Title II. (Could this be why he uses the politically risky name Barack Hussein Obama instead of the more innocuous “Barry Soetoro”? Perhaps Barry Soetoro is STILL an Indonesian citizen? Perhaps there are naturalization papers in the name of Barry Soetoro?
Now Obama has a second suit he must contend with. Both could be easily dispensed with by providing the demanded documentation which would prove he is a “natural born citizen” and thus eligible to serve. He has not produced these documents and instead seeks to DELAY discovery and production of any documents while he makes motions to dismiss. The “proof” of eligibility he’s offered is a “Certificate of Live Birth” posted on his “Fight the Smears” website, and duplicated on Factcheck.org and the Daily Kos sites! (Forensic experts have declared it a forgery!) Even if it were a genuine Hawaiian “Birth Certificate” with raised seal (and it’s not), it would still not adequately address the Indonesian citizenship issue which Obama has yet to acknowledge!
Mr. Obama put an electronic photo of a birth certification on his “Fight the Smears” Web site, a document that his critics have found unconvincing. The raised seal and authoritative signature needed to validate the document cannot be seen on the scan. The Obama campaign was unwilling to release the original document to the court when Mr. Berg filed suit in August, choosing instead to argue against Mr. Berg’s standing.
Mr. Berg asserts that Mr. Obama was born in Kenya, as his mother, Ann Dunham, was denied entry to the plane home due to her advanced pregnancy. Since she was only 18 at the time of Mr. Obama’s birth, she would not have passed citizenship on to Mr. Obama. In 1961, citizenship could only be passed on to a child where one parent was an alien should the citizen parent have resided in the U.S. for 10 years, five of those over the age of 14.
The State of Hawaii has refused to release copies of Mr. Obama’s birth certificate, because Department of Health officials say the privacy statutes of the state prevent them from doing so to anyone who does not have a “direct and tangible interest” in the record as prescribed in the state statute.
In Honolulu, Andy Martin, a longtime critic of Mr. Obama, filed a lawsuit in October, in an attempt to get the Hawaiian Department of Health to release Mr. Obama’s birth certificate records. Mr. Martin announced last week that he plans to get members of the Electoral College to pressure Mr. Obama into presenting his birth certificate.
“We are going to start organizing a ‘Goal Line Stand’ in the Electoral College to force Barack Obama to produce his original 1961 birth certificate for review by the American people,” Mr. Martin said. “Republicans, conservatives and independents have a new rallying point. Don’t let Obama pass through the Electoral College until he has produced his original birth certificate and ended the mystery shrouding his origins.”
No one, aside from Department of Health officials, has seen the original document. Mr. Martin has a court hearing on Nov. 18 in the Circuit Court for Honolulu, Hawaii to continue his case.
These questions must be answered…if a legal valid document is produced to prove Obama’s citizenship as natural born in the United States then he has every right to take the oath and serve as our president…why would he not produce such a document? What does he have to hide? Obviously there must be something here not on the up and up…otherwise this would have been resolved…the bottom line is this…Obama must produce the document by Dec 1, 2008 or it’s over so to speak…
If you want to understand the actual legal basis for all these suits claiming Obama is NOT eligible, please go to obamacrimes.com and read the actual court documents as filed by Philadelphia attorney, Phil Berg. This SCOTUS case is currently awaiting Obama, DNC and FEC responses, due by Dec 1st. In it, Berg pleads that Obama’s mother was too young to confer natural born citizenshp on her baby when he was born in Kenya. His own paternal grandmother insists she was in the room when he was born in Kenya. Berg cites current case law that stipulates if born in Kenya, Obama was always a citizen of Kenya until his adoption by his mother’s Indoensian husband. In fact, it is believed with some evidence, he is a citizen of Indonesia currently and appropriate requirements to become a US citizen, including an Oath of Allegiance to the US at age 18, were never done. These questions MUST BE ANSWERED so there can be no doubts as to Obama’s legitimacy of eligiblity to be POTUS. Phil Berg is trying to divert the threat of the biggest Constitutional crisis in our history. Look, we as citizen are required to prove OUR identity and citizenship many times in our lives. Children signing up for Little League are required to produce a certified, UNALTERED birht certificate. Why should Obama not be required to do the same to become POTUS? It’s not an unreasonable demand. The Certification of Live Birth is a document for foreign and home births that were not in a hospital. And that document he has displayed on his website has been proven digitally altered. We must see the long version VAULT copy which would give the details of his birth. He and his sister have both claimed he was born in two different hospitals. This must be resolved one way or another.
Quoted from the current laws posted on the US Embassy in Kenya website:
“Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock: A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) INA provided the citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child’s birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen are required for physical presence in the U.S. to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.”
That the laws are so clearly defined leaves no wiggle room for Obama’s eligibility. He never held US citizenship. He was always Kenyan until he was adopted by his mother’s Indonesian husband. He was required to be a citizen of Indonesia to go to public schools which he did. He was required to have a government issued id card to go to public school. Indonesia did not allow for dual citizneships. He had to be legally adopted or acknowledged by his mother’s husband and his citizenship changed to Indonesian. He never had US citizenship. If he was frauduelent;y registered, he never had it at all and his mother was too young to confer it on him. The legal shortcuts his mother took have undoubtedly left a real mess for Obama to untangle, but he can’t be anything more than a naturalized citizen at best and that makes him ineligible. PERIOD!
Andy Martin
Where do I start. The state of Illinois refused to give the guy a licensce to practice law because he is a certified nutcase. He ran for congress from Connecricut under the platform of ‘Eliminating Jew Power’ He ran in the GOP primary this spring for the US Senate seat and the state party ran away from him like he had the plague. In fact they were deathly afraid he might win the primary against the party’s endorsed candidate and made a dedicate effort to let people know about the guy.
I can not believe that anybody actually buys any of the stuff this guy puts out.
Actually I can. It’s because you guys want to believe it. Just like the ‘Whitey Video” and Michelle Obama’s interview with African Press International that was to be released on Fox, you guys listen to these nutcases string you along promising this or that blockbuster release that is going to change the election and eliminate Obama. Guess what –it’s not coming and these frauds and charlatans will extract money out of you true believers for 4 or 8 more years.
Heck if Obama released the long form of the birth certificate, I’m sure somebody will dig up a self proclaimed ‘forensic expert’ to prove it is false. Heck, if I looked hard enough I could find 3 ‘experts’ who would testify in court that the earth was flat. Hell, I now declare myself a ‘forensic expert’–so there!
Over a billion dollars was spent on this past campaign. Do you not think that if this was anything serious that a couple of million would be directed towards finding out the truth. That’s way under 1% of all the money spent. No, instead we have Berg who for years filed nuisance lawsuits against the government about 9-11, Martin who is off the deep end and Keyes who is nothing more than a self centered pompous ass who likes to hear himself make proclomations–although nobody else is listening. I live in Illinois and heard enough out of this guy for a lifetime believe me.
When someone with some actual stature comes along and questions this, I’ll perhaps listen, but until then you guys can go on listening to conspiracy theories, consoling each other over your losses, and wasting your money on these charlatans all you want.
train111
This just proves what total nutcases the Republicans have become.
They refuse to evolve, they should become extinct.
Mr. Obama – “there’s some stuff that’s been left undone.”
On November 4, 2008 those voting for Barack Obama may in fact have voted for a non-candidate in the presidential election.
Obama refuses to answer mounting lawsuits in various states regarding whether or not he was born as an American. All it would take to clear up this question would be for him to produce a legal copy of his actual birth certificate, which to date he has refused to do. The pressure is growing daily and now there is speculation that in fact he does not have a legal American birth certificate.
If you believe that Obama went to Hawaii to only see his Grandmother then; where was Michelle and why were the girls not allowed to see their Great-Grandma “Toot” for the last time??
Folks get a grip. This Obama trip to see Grandma ‘Toot” was put together with ABC and Good Morning America as a two-fold attempt to, 1) legitimize a Publicity stunt to gain sympathetic favor for Obama and, 2) provide a cover for Obama to solicit a legal story and affidavit from Grandma ‘Toot” as to his claim of having been born in Hawaii.
“One of the things I want to make sure of is that I had a chance to sit down with her and talk to her,” Obama told Roberts on GMA. “She’s still alert and she’s still got all her faculties. And I want to make sure that I don’t miss that opportunity right now.” “And then we’re going to find out what chores I can do, because I’m sure there’s been some stuff that’s been left undone,” he said.
Yes, there was good reason that Obama needed to “talk with her and find some chores that need to be done!” And it’s very important that you the voter decipher his words “she’s still alert and she’s got all her faculties.” He keeps repeating this mantra because that’s an absolute requirement for a valid affidavit. And Grandma “toot†was the only American relative left that could cover-up his birthplace.
Obama’s other grandmother on his father’s side, half brother and half sister claim Mr. Barack H. Obama was born in Kenya. Reports further reflect that Mr. Obama’s mother went to Kenya during her pregnancy. Wayne Madsen, Journalist with Online Journal as a contributing writer published an article on June 9, 2008 stating that a research team went to Mombassa, Kenya, and located a Certificate Registering the birth of Barack Obama, Jr. at a Kenya Maternity Hospital, to his father, a Kenyan citizen and his mother, a U.S. citizen. There are claims of records of a “registry of birth” for Obama, on or about August 8, 1961 in the public records office in Hawaii, but these have not been released for scrutiny. It is alleged in the various lawsuits and is a matter of much general speculation that Mr. Obama’s mother was prevented from boarding a flight from Kenya to Hawaii at her late stage of pregnancy, which apparently was a normal restriction to avoid births during a flight. It is likely that Stanley Ann Dunham (Obama) gave birth to Barack Obama in Kenya, after which she flew to Hawaii and registered Obama’s birth.
Yes, Mr. Obama, “… there’s some stuff that’s been left undone!†NOW SHOW THE WORLD YOUR ACTUAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE and all the stuff will be done!
Please post information on how we can send letters to the judge in the Keye’s case, urging him to hear this. Thanks
For everyone who claims that Obama isn’t a natural born citizen because of a technicality, what about this technicality? Barack Obama’s father was already married to another woman when he married Barack’s mother. Since bigamy and polygamy are illegal in the US, wouldn’t his parents’ marriage be null and void? Technically, Barack was born to an unmarried US citizen. If a US citizen mother has resided at least one year continuously in the United States prior to the birth of her child, her child is a natural born citizen, regardless of where he was born.
From the US Department of State web site:
“Birth Abroad Out-of-Wedlock to a U.S. Citizen Mother: A child born abroad out-of-wedlock to a U.S. citizen mother may acquire U.S. citizenship under Section 301(g) INA, as made applicable by Section 309(c) INA if the mother was a U.S. citizen at the time of the child’s birth, and if the mother had previously been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year.”
Barack Obama was born in the United States of America. This means that he is a citizen of the United States of America. Regardless of his parents or their martial status.
Both his and McCain’s official birth information was published online.
Alan Keyes is simply picking up on a right-wing
conspiracy theory to try and stay in the news and help out his party. He is also probably a bit bitter for badly losing to Obama in the US Senate race.
What little respect I had for Keyes was probably eradicated after hearing how he treated his own daughter.
Assuming Obama was born in Hawaii like he claims, and his “live birth certificate” is not forged (as he claims), there are still many other problems regarding his “natural born” status.
++++
Requirement in order to be a natural born citizen-
(1) According to US Law pertaining to births from “Dec. 24, 1952, to Nov. 13, 1986,†in order to register the child’s birth as a US Natural-Born citizen at the time of Obama’s birth, he or she must be: 1. Born to two U.S. citizen parents; OR 2. If only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of the birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for at least 10 years, at least five of which must be after the age of 14.
Since Barack Obama’s father was not a U.S. citizen and Obama’s mother was only 18 at the time of his birth, she failed to meet the legal requirements of U.S. residency for at least five years after the age of 14.
This would apply even if Obama’s father was still technically married to another woman when he impregnated Obama’s mother.
That alone should forward the court case for the legitimacy of Barack Obama’s “natural-born” citizenship.
However, there is another scenario questioning his natural-born status. Keep reading.
++++
Only Indonesian citizens could attend Indonesian schools at the time Barack Obama attended the Indonesian school where he was registered as Barry Soetoro. His citizenship was listed as Indonesian, his religion as Islam, and his father as Lolo Soetoro, M.A. There was also no dual citizenship at the time. If he was adopted by his Indonesian stepfather, he would have forfeited any U.S. citizenship he may have had, just as when a child is adopted in America, he or she becomes an American.
This means that he would have had to gone through the proper means of immigration in order to have become a US citizen again, which means he would have become a “naturalized” citizen, as his “natural-born” citizenship status was lost when he became a citizen of Indonesia.
Keep in mind that both these scenario’s still allow for Obama to have been born in Hawaii, but neither allow for him to be a natural-born citizen, which means he is ineligible to serve as POTUS.
If this case is not settled before Obama is sworn in, we will have a Constitutional crisis.
For those of you wishing to contact the Judge in the Alan Keyes – Obama Citizenship lawsuit: Write to Hon. Michael P. Kenney, Superior Court of California, 4th Floor, 720 Ninth St., Sacramento, CA 95814
” If Keyes doesn’t have better grounds to challenge Obama than that- and how about telling us what grounds he’s suing on?- ”
Response – Keyes is suing to give himself credibility and to cover up for his total and complete corruption. At a previous time he was apparently, and at least to me, a positive force for moral good. He has since totally abandoned any such pretense and is now completely corrupt to the bone as certified by his completely corrupt attack upon the American Independent Party in California. Hence this ” lawsuit ” is simply marketing public relations in a attempt to put lipstick on the Alan Keyes pig.
Don Grundmann Vice-Chairman American Independent Party of California
Daniel-You are not just wrong, but spectacularly wrong.
Anyone born in the US is a natural-born citizen even if the parents are 2 illegal aliens or people changing planes en route to somewhere else.
As for losing yourUS citizenship, it doesn’t matter how many foreign citizenships you may have or be entitled to, you only lose US citizenship by renouncing it before a US consular officer abroad. Does anyone believe an 8 year old Barack Obama did so? If he did, does anyone believe a professional US diplomat accepted that as freely and knowingly done? And where is the record of such an event, assuming it did occur? As for Indonesian school registration forms-their relevance to US citizenship is ZERO, ZIP, NADA. Only US law counts and it requires a formal renunciation at a a US consulate (see above).
Folks your new President is Barack Obama. Give it a rest; if he screws up, I’ll be happy to join you in criticising him. You can revisit all of this nonsense in 2012.
#83. James Shields took office as Senator from Illinois on March 4, 1849; but the Senate later determined that he was not qualified due to not having been a citizen for 9 years (even though he had been Illinois state representative, Illinois state auditor, an Illinois Supreme Court judge, commissioner of the General Land Office, Oregon territorial governor, and a general in the US Army during that time and before)
Later that year he was elected again and server the remainder of the 6 year term. He later was Senator from two other States.
An open letter to all my right wing “friends”:
Please spend the next 4 years obsessing over the intricacies of Hawaiian birth certificates ca. 1961. Please spend the next 4 years obsessing over citizenship laws for those you believe (without any real proof) were born abroad to 18 year olds. Please spend the next 4 years obsessing over the reminiscences of elderly Kenyan ladies in languages you don’t even speak. Please spend the next 4 years obsessing over Indonesian citizenship laws even though they are written in a language you don’t speak and you know nothing about the Indonesian legal system AND they are irrelevant to US citizenship.
Because the American people don’t want the serious economic and political missues that they face addressed.
Signed a left-winger who looks forward to your being as extinct as the dinosaurs
Go Alan Go!!! It’s about time someone who was running for President took this guy on…. Glad to see you have the courage and conviction Mr. Keyes!!!
(sung to the tune of “Hark the Herald Angels Sing)Hark the Herald Bloggers sing
STORY: “NO OBAMA KING!”
His unworthy lies gone wild,
Citizen un-reconciled!
Joyful all ye Right-wing guys,
Join the triumph of the wise.
With Bloggoric host proclaim,
“Natural Born? OBAMA AIN’T!
Hark the Herald Bloggers sing
STORY: “NO OBAMA KING!”
“Phil Sawyer Says:
Post #56
My impression is that most of the desperate attempts to paint a negative picture about President-Elect Barack Obama are based on lunacy and racism. It is pointless to continue debating with these people. The courts will take care of the matter. In the meantime, the GOP can continue to pack its bags. It is truly a new day in America. The neo-fascist Republican Party has been defeated and anyone who is still in the GOP”
Hi Phil,
You can shout lunacy, but racism? Alan Keyes has twice as many black parents as Obama. Okay, that’s my poor attempt at a joke.
Alan Keyes is an African-Amaerican as it is defined in our society, a decendent of African slaves.
So far ast your assertion of the,”neo-fascist Republican Party”, Alan Keyes left that party months ago and the GOP doesn’t pull his strings.
Is it possible that Dr. Keyes, with no office or power to gain, is just doing his patriotic duty and protecting the constitution?
It is very possible.
I have to wonder, why this lawsuit did not arise during the primary or general election? At least then I might give it more attention then now.
I never heard anyone question the fact that Obama was born in Hawaii until now. Some Ron Paul types tried to argue that McCain was not eligible and that was proven to be false.
I would more then willing to consider the alternatives if they were not coming from a sore loser (Keyes) or people who have just gotten over
trying to telling us that Obama is a really a closted Muslim.
As for a Constitutional crisis? Oh, please. Even if everything being said was 100% true, the worst that would happen would be that Biden would become President and he would probably make Obama the Vice President.
The arguments being made here are for those who believe court of public opinion is more real than the courts of law. Barack’s COLB arose on factcheck.org as a result of the BHO camapign saying they had proof he wasn’t involved with any of terroristic activities of William Ayers. Then someone asked can we see the birth certificate you claim to have. several months later the factcheck.org was presented. It has been debunked online ala Dan Rather’s National guard letter.
The public statements of the Hawaiian record’s authorities are not really legally binding until they are said under oath in a court of law. The Berg case was thrown out on a technicality, one of standing not the merits or issues of the case.
Obama wasn’t really vetted by the democratic party either during his senatorial election. Senators don’t have to be natural born citizens. They aren’t going to vet him now, since he is the defacto head of the democratic party. Party Rules are not legally binding under any statute.
His COLB could have been contrived so he could get a passport.
To get a COLB you don’t actually need a birth certificate from a hospital. You can have several people swear out affidavits that say they were present at your birth. These witness testimonies are used when your hospital or state offices burns to the ground and your records are lost. The easiest thing that BHO can do is be transparent. Let the sunshine in. Be a genuine leader for change.
The COLB is good for a passport, reasonable for admissions to a college, getting a job with Microsoft. The underlying documents that enabled the State of Hawaii to legally produce the COLB are important to verify BHO’s constitutional legal standing.
Apparently someone traveled back in time and changed the Honolulu Advertiser to say he was born Aug. 4, 1961. Or the Obama’s, in constructing their vast future conspiracy, began the ruse on the date of his birth just to make sure he would be eligible to be President and made it appear he was born in a Honolulu hospital.
If Obama is “NATIVE BORN” as REQUIRED by the US Constitution. Why does he refuse to produce a valid birth certificate? An average American cannot get a passport without a valid birth certificate and yet this pompous ass thinks he can take over the most powerful job in the world without proving he is eligable to do so. Why is not the FBI all over this? God help the United States.
To all above: You are certainly engaged in forming opinions, but how engaged are you in contacting your Congress people? They will make the FINAL decision. Arguing and rooting for litigation is beside the point – it’s not the Judiciaries’ call.
You would be advised to speak to the Congress. But then they didn’t listen to you on the Bailout Bill either.
How many of you voted in this election? Why? Do your Congresspeople know you expect to be ignored after the election? Do you expect to be ignored? Is complaining among yourselves as a protest good enough?
Is it just possible you would be served (at all) by voting for an alternative candidate? That is, if you were given permission from the controlling parties to stop showering votes upon them.
The name of this site is Ballot Access News. It’s purpose, I believe, is to empower the people (YOU) to choose those who will govern temporarily and listen judiciously to your opinions while they serve as your representatives.
Formulating your POVs and verbally fencing with one another is good, but it’s not good enough. At some point you must act to replace your arrogant rulers.
Until you act you are merely venting to avoid acting.
Send emails to the Congress. Do It. Do it now! It’s a start. Start it up!
Arnold has more experience as the governor of California, than President-elect Obama, but he can’t run for president without an amendment to the Constitution. Because Barak’s father was a Kenyan, and many people here of all colors are racist, we should look past his ties to some sketchy folks and that he really hasn’t released much information about who he is? I didn’t vote for him, or Senator McCain. I was born in New Jersey 42 years ago, and can produce the original, in all of it’s aged beauty. How many of you ever heard of a COLB?
Yes Alice, there is a vast conspiracy at work, all the time and secrecy is the key. Some really powerful folks want Obama as president, otherwise he wouldn’t be. How about releasing his college transcripts, worse than W’s? I can’t get a Teaching Certificate in New Jersey, without releasing my transcripts. This guy is going to be president, why should he get off so easy?
I wonder why B.O. has not released his college transcripts. Did he list his citizenship on his transcripts? I know foreign students can get grants for college. That would be interesting to see his transcripts too.
A Letter to the U.S. Supreme Court.
Concerning President-Elect Obama’s Birth Certificate issue.
To the Honorable Supreme Court Justice, Clarence Thomas.
Dear Sir, I am writing to you because of my concern that an illegal alien may have been voted in to the White House by an unknowing public, because of the failure of the DNC and the FEC to have properly vetted the Democratic President-Elect Obama to insure that he was an American citizen, before his election to the Office of the President of the United States of America.
I believe that it is unusual, if not unprecedented, for there to be a question surrounding a candidates status as a U.S citizen to be unresolved before a Primary or Caucus, much less the Election for the President of the United States.
I believe it is incumbent upon the U.S. Supreme Court as the great defenders of the U.S. Constitution, to insure that the Constitution of the United States is not rendered a useless piece of paper, easily subverted by anyone who chooses to do so.
I am appalled that a lower court Judge would dismiss a case concerning this issue, because of an American citizen’s, “lack of standingâ€, as was done in a Pennsylvania courtroom.
It is very disturbing to me that an issue such as this would have to go to the U.S. Supreme Court for relief.
I hope to implore you to uphold our Constitution, and make sure that President-Elect Obama is an American citizen, who is legally eligible to take the Oath of Office to become the President of the United States.
Please for the good of America, make President-Elect Obama prove his U.S. citizenship.
Article 2, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution states,
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
I implore you take action to avert a possible Constitutional crisis from occurring.
If Senator Obama is discovered, after he takes office, to be ineligible for the Office of President of the United States of America and, thereby, his election declared void, Americans will suffer irreparable harm in that a usurper will be sitting as the President of the United States, and none of the treaties, laws, or executive orders signed by him will be valid or legal.
Please require the President-Elect Obama, to prove that he is an American citizen who is legally eligible to take the Oath of Office to become the President of the United States.
Thank You,
Sincerely,
Thanks, Jim Riley. I’m certain that Obama was born in Hawaii, and is a natural born citizen, but I still like to speculate what would happen if all the conspiracy theories were true.
I looked up the case of Senator James Shields. Senators were required to be citizens of the US for 9 years, and he was a citizen for something like 8 years 4 months. Senators argued whether or not the election was void vs. voidable. Ultimately the Senate declared the election void because he didn’t meet the citizenship requirement, but anything he did prior to that wasn’t void because he was an “officer de facto.” The governor of Illinois refused to appoint a replacement Senator because he thought he had no right to do so in the case of a void election. The Illinois legislature appointed James Shields to the US Senate and could do so, because by that time, he met the 9 year requirement.
So, if Obama made it to the Presidency of the United States and signed laws and treaties and was later found to be ineligible because he wasn’t a “natural born citizen,” his actions as President would still be legal, but the election could be declared void and the Presidency would be vacant. I would assume that the Vice President Elect would take over, but since Vice Presidents aren’t elected separately, wouldn’t that mean the Vice President Elect couldn’t be President? In the case of an undecided election, Dick Cheney would become the acting President until the House of Representatives chooses the President. The House would have to pick from the top 3 electoral vote recipients, but since 48 states have a winner take all, wouldn’t that mean McCain would be the only choice if Obama isn’t eligible? The Senate would also have to choose between the top two electoral vote recipients for Vice President, so they would have to choose between Sarah Palin or Joe Biden.
In any case, I predict that the court will rule that a certified copy of the short form/abstract of a birth certificate showing birth took place on US soil is sufficient to prove a person is a “natural born citizen.” The California electoral votes will be counted for Obama.
Anyone who wishes to copy my letter above and send their own copy to the Supreme Court Justices may freely do so with my permission.
I hope there is nothing substantial to it; I don’t like the guy ( BHO ), I think he’s bad for the nation; but the strife his removal by any other means than by the next presidential election would cause is not something I want to see happen. (And likely will cause strife in the form of sore-loser riots even if he is voted out in four years.)
However, if there is something to it, then . . Oh boy, what a dilemma: damned if you do ( proceed with his disqualification ) and damned if you don’t (let him besmirch the constitution).
If there is nothing to hide, I really can’t understand why he doesn’t want these documents proving his natural-born status and/or his sole citizenship. His very obstinance itself is a slap in the face. It’s giving the finger to us all.
I want there to be nothing to hide. I’m even of the mind that even if he has some perhaps minor technical difficulties in his qualifications, I would accept an act of Congress – – the present Congress – – declaring him legally qualified.
But whatever it is, it needs to be ascertained and he absolutely must submit to the law as any one of us has to – – even to get a license, register for school, etc.
” So far ast your assertion of the,â€neo-fascist Republican Partyâ€, Alan Keyes left that party months ago and the GOP doesn’t pull his strings.”
Response : As the total fake that he is Alan Keyes ” left ” the Republican Party to accomplish the destruction of the Constitution Party just as the Reps used some of the same operatives to destroy the Reform Party. Keyes never truly left the Republicans as he has been financed by them in his attack to destroy the CP. His ” strings ” are totally pulled by the GOP in addition to simply being open for the highest bidder. He has been, and will be, richly compensated for his work to destroy a potential future enemy of and challenge to the GOP
Don Grundmann Vice-Chairman American Independent Party of California
#117 Since Alan Keyes was not the leading vote getter in the American Independent Party primary in California, why was he on the general election ballot, in direct contradiction of the California Constitution (Article 5, Section 2)?
#132, the Governor of Illinois was correct in his decision not to make a temporary appointment. It has always been understood that if the legislature failed to elect a senator, whether due to a deadlock, or because they didn’t even know that there was a vacancy, that the governor has no power to make an appointment. That is, a governor has no authority to make up for the failure of the legislature, but only a vacancy that occurred later.
The President and Vice President are elected independently. The fact that the (presidential) electors are the same is no different than that the same electors (voters) can cast two independent votes for Governor and Lieutenant Governor – at least in some States. It seems different, but that is only because presidential electors are few in number, and tend not to exercise independent judgement.
Perhaps some elector will vote for Joe Biden for President, so that just in case Congress decides that electoral votes for Obama are irregular and invalid, that he could be elected by the House. Or maybe one elector will vote for Sarah Palin, one for Ron Paul, and the House could choose between McCain, Palin, and Paul.
Under terms of the 20th Amendment, VP Biden would act as President until a president qualified.
TO: Jim Riley
In your post #117 at 7:11 PM you asked why was Alan
Keyes on the California Ballot on November 4, General Election. First, the California Constitution does not require under Article 5, Section 2 that the highest vote receiver in the primary is on the November ballot.
On July 5, 2008 at Sacramento, the American Independent Party held a convention and selected
Ambassador Dr. Alan Keyes for President and Dr. Wiley S. Drake for Vice President.
I should know because, I was the elected chairman
of that convention.
Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American Independent Party
Mr. Reality,
The law disagrees with your opinions, I’m sorry.
Once again, I’ll say it clearly, according to US law at the time, Obama’s mother must have been living in the states for at least 5 years after the age of 14, (that means she must have been 19) in order for any of her children to be considered “natural-born,” yet she was only 18.
Secondly, there is enough reasonable doubt that this deserves to be in the courts. If I am wrong, then let the courts prove it beyond all reasonable doubt. No? I am not arguing because I dislike the guy, in fact, I think he has more honesty than McCain does. However, I’d rather uphold the Constitution than put a man in office illegally, or simply have it proven beyond reasonable doubt that he is in fact eligible to hold office.
Whether you like the guy or dislike him, he should prove beyond all reasonable doubt that he is a natural-born citizen. However, so far he has refused to lay to rest any of the doubts (except for posting a “certification of live birth” online, which is another whole story and also should be examined.).
Factcheck.org is a mouthpiece for the DNC. Believe it at your peril.
As for a revolution if Obama is blocked from taking office, what do you think is going to happen if he does and is not qualified???
That is the entire point. You can turn a deaf ear if you like, but the Constitution MUST be upheld.
He who has ears, let him hear.
http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_830.html
“A certified birth certificate has a registrar’s raised, embossed,
impressed or multicolored seal, registrar’s signature, and the date
the certificate was filed with the registrar’s office, which must
be within 1 year of your birth. Please note, some short (abstract)
versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes.”
If the short form is not sufficient to get a passport I don’t see how it can be considered sufficient to prove “natural born citizenship”.
I read a comment from someone in Hawaii that said Obama’s tutu had told all her neighbors that Obama had been fooling people for 20 years. I wondered if she just couldn’t bear to see him become the President elect.
I also thought it was interesting so many people from Hawaii were signing the petition stating they had never seen a bc that looked like Obama’s that was posted on his website.
I wonder why Hawaii took the difficult path of re doing their old bc’s in that format? (If it is legit.) I’ve been doing genealogy for many years and I’ve never seen a state do it that way. They usually work from the old microfiche records…but at least you would think they would just scan the old records instead of re doing them with the computer font. Hawaii must have lot’s of time on their hands to redo all their old records that way, when most states don’t have that kind of resources.
The newly elected Congress is slated to count electoral votes on Jan. 6, 2009. What if an objection is raised to Mr. Obama’s qualification to serve as President because he is not a “natural-born citizen” of the United States? The objection, if sustained, would mean that the votes of Electors for Mr. Obama are a nullity.
The American Heritage Dictionary of English Language defines “to qualify” as a) “to be successful in one stage of the competition and as a result to proceed to the next stage,” and b) to have the abilities required to do or to have something. This is contemporary usage. It is not indisputable for that reason in a Constitutional context.
At the very least, the Congress should be obliged to make an official inquiry into the matter which might take some days. Such an inquiry could not be separated from a consideration of the political consequences of a disqualification of Mr. Obama. I shall not enter into the merits of the controversy of what is a “natural-born citizen.” I emphasize however, that the decision of defining “natural-born” in this context rest solely with the the Congress – not the U.S. Supreme Court or any other authorities (states) under the U.S. Constitution.
This discussion focuses on the Constitutional and legal implications of what, in the event of Mr. Obama’s disqualification by the U.S. House of Representatives, it would reveal about our political institutions on the matter of Presidential succession.
In the event of the disqualification of Mr. Obama for President, the House of Representatives has until Inauguration Day (January 20th) to chose as President either Mr. McCain or the third person with the next most votes of Electors, if any. Suppose Mr. McCain dies, or is also disqualified by whatever doctrine of “natural-born” the Congress may adopt, or for any other reason the House is deadlocked on Noon of January 20th; then Mr. Biden, assuming he has already been chosen by the U.S. Senate as Vice-President, would become President. The office of Vice-President becomes vacant and would filled under the terms of the 25th Amendment.
The manner of electing the Vice-President in the U.S. Senate is a rather straight forward majority decision (51 of 100) or with a bare quorum of 67 Senators (51 of 67). That is, a majority of the whole number of 100 Senators is required regardless of the presence of a bare quorum. Apparently, the sitting Vice-President could vote to break a tie only in the event of a 50-50 deadlock. As to the qualification of “natural-born” for the Vice-President, that definition is also within the sole authority of the Congress.
It is interesting that the manner of election of the President in the U.S. House is unique. House rules for electing a president have remained unchanged since 1825, though each new Congress can set new rules. House of Representatives in choosing the President, “the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice.” That means 26 of the 50 states must agree to elect, but an evenly divided state delegation cannot cast a ballot. Under certain compositions of the newly elected House, it may fail to elect a president by Inauguration Day under the 1825 rules.
It is possible that in the event of a challenge to Mr. Obama’s constitutional qualification, it might well require some extended time for born Houses of Congress to pass a law unambiguously defining “natural-born” citizenship. But a failure to do so before January 20th would elevate Mr. Biden to the Presidency. Once taking office, there would be no grounds for removing Mr. Biden even though a bill defining “natural-born” passed on January 21st which would make Mr. Obama eligible to be President. Mr Biden, as President, could veto such a bill. Unless overridden by the Congress that veto would leave Mr. Obama “out in the cold.”
However, Mr. Biden could sign the bill. Then he could appoint Mr. Obama Vice-President and resign. Mr. Obama would become President and reappoint Mr. Biden as Vice-President. All this comedic choreography might only take a few weeks. So maybe by late-March President Obama could get his administration stumbling out of the blocks.
What now passes for a Constitution in this country is incredible!
Obama will wish that running illegally for president was his only crime when David Hawkins and Field McConnell of http://www.hawkscafe.com get through with him!!!!!!!!!
Check it out!
In my opinion the court can do one of two things:
1. Attack the messenger either legitimately or not or,
2. Consider the question posed in the lawsuit.
They certainly cannot do (2) because if they go down that road they will have to get the other party to respond (horrors)! But for fun let’s pretend they did.
The law and witnesses are mostly not helpful.
Other than precisely defining the meaning of the phrase “natural born” which I always thought meant “not-foreign born” Obama doesn’t have much of a case. The burden of proof is still on him as otherwise nothing has been resolved.
He could claim his “birth certificate” is vouched for by the State of Hawaii, but I believe this court would require Hawaii to provide formal proof certifying that they are actually vouching for him which they may have trouble doing. They may have to violate their own laws (or do questionable things) to do this.
There is a third way however. Keyes could “win” which will end any appeals, but the court could provide no penalty. This has been done before in vote fraud cases. I have a newspaper story about Pat Buchanan where he filed a lawsuit in Iowa during his campaign for President where the judge said there was indeed vote fraud so he “won” his case but then the judge said, “I am a passive judge so there won’t be any penalty.” And since he “won” he couldn’t appeal it.
Keyes could try to make his story public but let’s see how far he gets doing that (as far as Pat got) in our controlled media.
I agree it will be a mess if it is proven he is not a U.S. Citizen. But what would happen, if for instance, he appoints a Supreme Court Justice and it later comes out that he is illegally holding the office of president. That would be an even bigger mess. He already stole the election with ACORN and the busing in of every welfare body they could find. Not to mention all of untraceable money that came pouring in. The majority of people who voted for him probably couldn’t even tell you who he was running against! I don’t want Ayers (who it looks like wrote his “Dreams” book) and the rest of his Marxist and Anti-American buddies sleeping in our Lincoln bedroom. Like it or not Alan Keyes, Berg, and every last one of us has the right to ask for proof of citizenship!
The Framers of the Constitution, at the time of their birth, were also British Citizens and that’s why the Framers declared that, while they were Citizens of the United States, they themselves were not “natural born Citizens”. Hence their inclusion of the grandfather clause in Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5 of the Constitution:
No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution shall be eligible to the Office of President;
That’s it right there. (Emphasis added.)
The Framers wanted to make themselves eligible to be President, but they didn’t want future generations to be Governed by a Commander In Chief who had split loyalty to another Country. The Framers were comfortable making an exception for themselves. They did, after all, create the Constitution. But they were not comfortable with the possibility of future generations of Presidents being born under the jurisdiction of Foreign Powers, especially Great Britain and its monarchy, who the Framers and Colonists fought so hard in the American Revolution to be free of.
The Framers declared themselves not eligible to be President as “natural born Citizens”, so they wrote the grandfather clause in for the limited exception of allowing themselves to be eligible to the Presidency in the early formative years of our infant nation.
But nobody alive today can claim eligibility to be President under the grandfather clause since nobody alive today was a citizen of the US at the time the Constitution was adopted.
The Framers distinguished between “natural born Citizens” and all other “Citizens”. And that’s why it’s important to note the 14th Amendment only confers the title of “Citizen”, not “natural born Citizen”. The Framers were Citizens, but they weren’t natural born Citizens. They put the stigma of not being natural born Citizens on themselves in the Constitution and they are the ones who wrote the Document.
Since the the Framers didn’t consider themselves to have been “natural born Citizens” due to their having been subject to British jurisdiction at their birth, then Senator Obama, having also been subject to British jurisdiction at the time of his birth, also cannot be considered a “natural born Citizen” of the United States.
Why shouldn’t he have to provide a birth certificate like all Americans do when applying for a drivers license or passport. Why should we have to assume anything?
” Jim Riley Says:
November 18th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
#117 Since Alan Keyes was not the leading vote getter in the American Independent Party primary in California, why was he on the general election ballot, in direct contradiction of the California Constitution (Article 5, Section 2)?”
Response : Alan Keyes was on the ballot as the candidate of the AIP because Mark Seidenberg and others deliberately filed false documents with the Secretary of State office to deceive them that the AIP had disaffilated with the Constitution Party. This is a lie as it never occurred and the AIP is still the California affiliate of the CP but on a technicality the Keyes criminal gang succeeded in getting his name on the ballot in place of Chuck Baldwin. This is part of Keyes plan as a Republican Party operative and using Republican Party money and resources to destroy the CP since it is viewed as a potential future threat, just like the Reform Party was ( the same gang and operatives like Seidenberg destroyed it ), to the Republican Party. Keyes had full knowledge of the criminality of the actions of Seidenberg et al. He is hence every bit of a criminal as they are. There are numerous lawsuits regarding Obama’s true citizenship. Keyes is simply jumping into the fray to get media attention and fundraising ability. This does not change the fact that he is still totally corrupt as illustrated by his actions regarding the AIP. Even if the suit against Obama has merit it will not succeeed because it is being brought forth by a criminal group and can hence only fail. Criminals like Keyes/Seidenberg cannot defeat other criminals like Obama. Obama can only be defeated by honest people who fight for our nation and not by corrupt liars like Keyes, Seidenberg, et al. The real purpose of the suit is to cover over the corruption of Keyes and his fellow criminals like Seidenberg. It is simply a marketing/p.r. ploy; nothing else.
Don Grundmann Vice-Chairman American Independent Party of California
It is Obama’s own fault that it has come to this. He could have simply produced his vault copy US birth certificate, and get this charade over with. Instead he has hired attorneys from three different law firms defending half a dozen lawsuits against him, and spending thousands and thousands of dollars. Why is he wasting all that money? Suppose the COLB on his website is a genuine copy, then why has he given orders to seal the original (long version) COLB in Hawaii? He is hiding something, people. And that is a fact.
I’ve explored all the theories about Obama lacking the qualification of a natural born citizen. Here is what I’ve found so far about theory versus reality–
1) Theory: Obama was born in Hawaii, but won’t produce the “vault” or “long form” copy because it contains something he wants to hide (e.g. Muslim religion, middle name of Mohammed, Arab ancestry). Reality: As long as the long form birth certificate shows he was born in Hawaii, he is a natural born citizen even if something on the certificate is a political embarrassment to him. (See principle of “Jus Soli.”)
2) Theory: The short form certificate is forged. Reality: If it’s forged, the person certifying the certificate may be fined and/or serve jail time. However, Barack still may be a natural born citizen even if he was born abroad under the circumstances mentioned in theories 3 and 4.
3) Theory: Barack is really the son of Frank Marshall Davis and Stanley Ann Dunham. Reality: If Davis is Barack’s father and Barack was born in Hawaii, Jus Soli applies. If he was born abroad, this rule applies, “A child born abroad to two U.S. citizen parents acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under section 301(c) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA). One of the parents MUST have resided in the U.S. prior to the child’s birth. No specific period of time for such prior residence is required.” Either way, Barack is a natural born citizen.
4) Theory: Ann Dunham married Barack Obama Sr. in Kenya and/or Hawaii and had Barack in Kenya. Reality: If that were the case, this rule would apply, “A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) INA provided the citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child’s birth….For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen are required for physical presence in the U.S. to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.” This is the only theory that I concede could mean he’s not a natural born citizen, provided it can be proved he wasn’t born in Hawaii. That’s because, at the time of his birth, his mother lived a little over 4 years 8 months after the age of 14. However, according to some sources, the five years after the age of fourteen do not have to be prior to the birth of the child. If those sources are correct, Barack is still a natural born citizen. If it’s not, then he is a natural born citizen if he was born in Hawaii, but not if he was born abroad to parents “in wedlock.” That theory fails to take into account, though, that bigamy and polygamy are illegal in the US. Barack’s father was married to another woman before he married Barack’s mother, which means legally he was born “out of wedlock.” In that case, this rule applies if he wasn’t born in the US, “A child born abroad out-of-wedlock to a U.S. citizen mother may acquire U.S. citizenship under Section 301(g) INA, as made applicable by Section 309(c) INA if the mother was a U.S. citizen at the time of the child’s birth, and if the mother had previously been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year.” In this case, Barack would be a natural born citizen even if he was born in Kenya.
Interestingly, the Republic of the Philippines had a similar lawsuit in their country filed against a presidential Candidate. Fernando Poe, Jr. was born in the Philippines with a Filipino father and an American mother. The President of the Philippines is required to be a natural born citizen. Poe’s father was a bigamist. The courts determined that Poe was a natural born Philippine citizen and a natural born American citizen. The court wrote, “Having been born out of a void and bigamous marriage, respondent Poe is an illegitimate child of Mr. Allan F. Poe and Ms. Bessie Kelley. Consequently therefore, the citizenship of respondent Poe follows that of his mother, Ms. Bessie Kelley, who is undeniably an American citizen.” It seems likely that US courts would provide a similar ruling for Barack, provided there is proof that Obama Sr.’s marriage to Dunham was bigamous.
5) Theory: Barack was adopted by his Indonesian stepfather and lost his citizenship by living five years in Indonesia. Reality: A minor US citizen can’t lose his citizenship even if he’s adopted and acquires citizenship elsewhere. He would have to renounce his citizenship as an adult. Unless someone can find a “Certificate of Loss of Citizenship” or naturalization papers of Barack Obama to prove that he lost his citizenship, he is still a natural born citizen.
6) Theory: Barack had or still has British and/or Kenyan citizenship because his father was a citizen of the British territory of Kenya. Because he has dual citizenship, he can’t be a natural born citizen. Reality: Barack admits to once having dual citizenship, but claims he is now a citizen only of the US. The US does recognize dual citizenship. It’s possible to be a natural born citizen of the US and a citizen of another country. It’s believed that Barack still would be a natural born citizen despite dual citizenship, although there may not be a precedent yet to establish this.
Conclusion: There are only two ways in which Barack could NOT be a “natural born citizen. It would either have to be proved that the Hawaii Dept. of Health forged his COLB, that his parents were legally married (not bigamous), and that the five years after the age of 14 would have to be before the birth of the child; or, it would have to be proved that Barack renounced his American citizenship by showing a “Certificate of Loss of Citizenship, or naturalization papers. According to all the other theories, he would still be a “natural born citizen.” For those who are anti-Obama, the best result you will probably get is that the court rules that a certified copy of the long form of the birth certificate is required instead of the short form. If the long form says he was born in Hawaii, case closed.
Very comprehensive summary CommonTater. Don’t expect the hate-filled nut jobs to listen to reason, though.
Just a quick comment on dual citizenship. Since many countries grant citizenship to children born abroad to their citizens, many US-born citizens with 1 or both parents born overseas have the right to nationality in their ancestral country. In many cases they are considered citizens of those countries even if they never apply for such citizenship. They can actually be drafted into military service if they visit the ancestral homeland-this has occured in some cases. If you look inside your US passport, it warns you about this.
Such dual status in no way affects your US citizenship or your ability to hold office, up to and including President.
Kudos, CommonTater! I wonder if the Congress would as well if they even bother to undertake an official inquiry. The worst possible action would be to punt this issue over to the U.S. Supreme Court.
Theory #5 concludes inaccurately. Allegedly, Obama’s mother renounced her US citizenship, and documentation exists showing that the school Barack attended had him documented as an Indonesian citizen. Another official paper reads similarly. Indonesia did not permit dual citizenship; therefore, if Barack was an Indonesian citizen, then he was not a US citizen.
Unless Barack reclaimed his US citizen at age 18, and papers would be on file for this, his Indonesian citizenship would remain.
Theory #2 is too harshly stated. A Certificate of Live Birth, created later, is not the same “level” of official record as an official birth certificate, created at the time of birth and containing the signatures of witnesses. The CoLB might simply be a well-meaning attempt to create certification where they were unable to find any. I would prefer the expression “is inaccurate.”
Oh, and I also note that if Barack was born in Kenya, then the argument goes that he is a US citizen but not a “natural born citizen” — and therefore not qualified to be president.
Frank: Please read what has been posted. Indonesian documents are irrelevant. Only a US State Department document showing he renounced citizenship is of any relevance and no one has any evidence that such a document exists, nor is it likely that a 10 year-old would have been allowed to do so. No one gives a rodent’s behind about Indonesian school registrations.
As far as birth in Kenya and natural born, again you are incorrect. Mitt Romney’s father George was eligible for the Presidency, despite being born in Mexico. Not to mention McCain who was born in Panama. Finally, Chester Arthur served 4 years as President, although he may very well have been born in Canada.
To Frank, let’s define “natural born citizen.” There is some disagreement as to what constitutes a “natural born citizen,” but most legal experts believe that “natural born” means that citizenship is acquired by birth, rather than naturalization. According to the Nationalization Act of 1790, “And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond sea, or outside the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens.” Therefore, if Barack was born in Kenya, as long as he is the son of an American citizen, he is a natural born citizen.
Alan Keyes needs to get a life! He sounds as if he is a nut…
To Frank, why does Theory #5 conclude inaccurately? So far, no one has produced documentary evidence that his mother renounced US citizenship. I thought Dunham’s citizenship wasn’t it dispute, but it looks like there are theories that she renounced her citizenship when she married Soetoro. She didn’t marry Soetoro until 1966. Barack was born in 1961. She would’ve been a US citizen at Barack’s birth even if she renounced her citizenship in 1966. As Mr. Reality said, it doesn’t matter whether Indonesia permits dual citizenship or not.
As for Theory #2, my hobby has been genealogy for nearly 30 years. A certificate/certification of live birth is a “birth certificate.” Those who say it’s not are inaccurate. The certificate supplied by Obama is a short form or abstract of the original record. As long as it’s a certified copy, it’s usually sufficient as legal proof. If the certificate weren’t certified, then there would be cause for concern. An uncertified record of birth is not legal proof. If the original certificate doesn’t say Obama was born in Hawaii, then Alvin T. Onaka is in legal trouble for signing, “I certify that this is a true copy or abstract of the record on file in the Hawaii State Department.” If a record of his birth in Hawaii doesn’t exist, Hawaii wouldn’t issue a certification of birth. They would issue a certificate or letter indicating there is “no record.” Onaka certified that a record exists, and was originally filed on Aug. 8, 1961.
Paul accurately quoted from the State Department web site, “Please note, some short (abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes.” The key word is “some.” It doesn’t say “all.” Unfortunately, it doesn’t specify what would make some short form certificates unacceptable. I would guess that a short form that doesn’t list the place of birth would be unacceptable. So far evidence points to Barack being born in Hawaii. If you demand evidence from Barack Obama that he was born in Hawaii, why don’t you demand evidence from others that Barack was born in Kenya?
Ok, Frank. Let’s say for the sake of argument that you’re correct that Obama lost his American citizenship because he was an Indonesian citizenship. That would mean that in order for him to get his US passport, which we know he has, he would’ve had to have provided a naturalization certificate to get it. Where is the naturalization certificate?
For the record, here is what the State Department says about parents renouncing their child’s US citizenship:
“Parents cannot renounce U.S. citizenship on behalf of their minor children. Before an oath of renunciation will be administered under Section 349(a)(5) of the INA, a person under the age of eighteen must convince a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer that he/she fully understands the nature and consequences of the oath of renunciation, is not subject to duress or undue influence, and is voluntarily seeking to renounce his/her U.S. citizenship.”
If my son has to provide a valid birth certificate to play Little League then Obama can show his birth certificate to be President Of The United States Of America….stop fighting it…..show it and shut us up. A certificate of Live Birth can’t get you in Little League either but this is what was posted on fact check site.
Per Hawaii Revised Statute 338-17.8, the law allows for the registration of a birth in Hawaii for a child who was born outside Hawaii to parents (who for the year immediately preceding the child’s birth) claiming Hawaii as their principle place of residence. Even if Obama’s birth occurred in Kenya or anywhere except Hawaii, Obama could legally be registered in Hawaii under said statute. Apparently, a “Certification of Life Birth” was issued under the referenced statute. While giving an impression that the child was born in Hawaii, a “Certification of Life Birth” legally indicates just the opposite. Being married to a Kenyan citizen, Obama’s mother could not automatically transfer United States’ citizenship to her son because she failed to have accumulated the necessary physical presence requirements that the law required. Under current law, Obama’s mother could have automatically transferred United States’ citizenship to her son. Unfortunately for Obama, current law is not retroactive to 1961. President-elect Obama should argue that because his father was already married in Kenya the alleged marriage to his mother was illegal and void. Accordingly, Obama could argue he was legally born out-of-wedlock. A child born abroad and out-of-wedlock to an United States’ citizen at the time of the child’s birth and who was physically present in the United States for a continuous period of one year could automatically transfer natural born United States’ citizenship to the child even if born in a foreign country. See INA Sec. 301(g) and 309(c). In the alternative, blood tests of Obama’s alleged half brothers would confirm whether or not the Kenyan was, in fact, the sperm donor. The son of Frank Marshall Davis (United States’ citizen no longer living) claims to be the half-brother of Obama. If a blood test could prove same, Obama would qualify as a natural born United States’ citizen even if born in Kenya or another foreign country. If both blood tests prove negative, Obama could claim his father is an unknown black individual and a legal resident of Hawaii at his conception. The attorneys for Obama should be thinking out of the box! Although voting for McCain, I sincerely hope Obama (in strict accordance with “The Rule of Law” and the United States Constitution) can be LEGALLY declared a natural born United States’ citizen by the United States Supreme Court. Failing such a ruling, BOTH Obama and Biden will be forced out. Some that have posted herein are of the opinion that the United States’ Congress would be somehow involved in determining our next President/Vice-President. If the Dem presidential ticket is declared ineligible, by law our next President/Vice-President would be McCain and Palin, respectively.
My immediate previous post (4:48 pm) should have shown “Certification of Live Birth” and not “Certification of Life Birth.” Sorry…
#138, Prop 60 in 2004 was a scam? What is the purpose of a primary, if not to let the voters affiliated with a party to choose its nominees?
Didn’t the voters in the American Independent Party Primary vote for Don Grundmann to be the presidential nominee of the party?
Re, #143. The 20th Amendment makes a distinction between a President not having been elected; and a President-elect not having qualified. The only way for a President-elect not having qualified would be for an unqualified person to have been elected. So not being qualified does not preclude being elected, just serving.
#149 Didn’t Don Grundmann receive the most votes in the AIP presidential primary? If Chuck Baldwin or Alan Keyes wanted to be on the California ballot they should have put themselves on the primary ballot – and eliminate all the back room squabbling between party bosses.
Here is the lawsuit filed by Mr. Keyes attorney Gary Kreep. Very well drafted and it will require Obama to finally produce the records or be taken off the California ballot and lose the 55 California electoral votes:
http://missionviejo.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/keyes-v-obama.pdf
It will be interesting to see if the Hawaii Court in the Martin matter orders the vault version of the birth certificate produced. The press is totally misrepresenting what the birth certificate that has been produced means. There was an article in the Advertiser in Hawaii proclaiming the Governor and the head of the Department of Health had reviewed the birth certificate and declared Obama born in Hawaii and a “natural born citizen”. What a pant load.
The Keyes lawsuit stands the best chance of getting to the bottom of whatever it is that Obama has been trying to hide. Obama may default on this hearing if he knows the evidence proves that he is ineligible to hold the office. As an attorney for fraud he would be disbarred, there is the issue of gathering all of the money during the campaign, the voter fraud cases that will follow. Of all of the cases the Keyes matter stands the best shot at getting to the bottom of this and finding out if Obama meets the Constitutional test of a “natural born citizen”.
TRS, when was Hawaii Revised Statute 338-17.8 passed? I couldn’t find when it was enacted, but I found an Attorney General opinion online that said 338-17.7 was enacted in 1973 by act 39. On the Hawaiian government website for 338-17.7, it lists “L 1973, c 39.” At the bottom of the page for 338-17.8, it says “[L 1982, c 182, §1].” I’m thinking that means 338.17.8 was enacted under Act 182 in 1982. If that’s the case, that law didn’t exist when Obama was born in 1961. Does anyone know when 338-17.8 was first passed into law in Hawaii?
I also tried to find out what “short form” birth certificates aren’t accepted for US Passport purposes. So far I’ve found that California and Texas short form birth certificates aren’t accepted. They must submit the long form in order to get passport. I can’t find any site yet that says Hawaii short form birth certificates are unacceptable.
Alan Keyes would have been embarassed to put himself on the AIP California presidential primary, since he was busy running for the Republican nomination. He ran in the California Republican presidential primary.
Alan Keyes joins the ranks of the nuts. Damn people get a life, do you honestly think Hillary and then McCain would ignore the birth issue if real??? – please we are talking politicians here.
” Didn’t the voters in the American Independent Party Primary vote for Don Grundmann to be the presidential nominee of the party?”
Response : Jim – I did win the February primary to be the Presidential nominee of the AIP but since the AIP is the California affiliate of the Constitution Party I attended the April CP national convention in Kansas City seeking their nomination. When I learned at the convention of the corruption of Alan Keyes and his followers I asked my supporters to vote for Chuck Baldwin for President to ensure that the corruption of Keyes and his supporters would be stopped. Since his true objective all along in seeking the nomination of the CP was actually the destruction of the party Keyes then continued after the convention to attack the CP via the corrupt then officers of the AIP inclusive of Ed Noonan, Mark Robinson, and Mark Seidenberg who as a result filed false documents with the Secretary of State office claiming that the AIP had disaffiliated from the CP. This is a lie and the AIP is still affiliated with the CP but the corrupt Keyes elements, backed by Republican Party money and operatives, won the preliminary case to keep Keyes on the ballot ( and knock Chuck Baldwin off ) on a technicality. The AIP will be rescued, the corrupt elements will be stopped ( and ideally jailed ), and the party will rise to its greatest heights in the years ahead. We have simply currently fallen prey to the complete corruption of Alan Keyes and his supporters.
Don Grundmann Vice-Chairman American Independent Party of California
Barack Obama will be shown to be born in Kenya and will not become the President of the United States. The Democrat Party coverup of the truth about President- elect Obama’s background will reach the top of the party and all of his university presidents and professors. The big secret is about to come out and if the poor people who fell for this grand deception want to riot and protest with guns and fires, I say to them BRING IT ON!
Nice work Dr. Keyes!
Mr Patrick Henry
I asume you are a scard white man. Yes? You say BRING IT ON? We as blacks and Muslims will most definitely do just that. If anything upset this elektion we will be taking to the streets in violent protist.
Maybe he is from Kenya is so bad? Most white people vote Obama becasue they scard like you. We benn slaves to white people to long. Now our turn to be in charge. You see in few months black people get better jobs than whits you be 2nd class citsens now.
I see you in street someday Mr Henry. You be scard!!
Allah Akbar
Allah Akbar,
It looks that you are just looking for a fight when you & your community should show that you are an American & are seeking the TRUTH. A COLB is not a birth certificate & if this issue “upsets the election” you write & ALL Americans should be happy and Proud thet a bad person was stopped from being in countrol of our great country.
You need to be a Patriot, not a Pinhead.
A Proud American standing for what is RIGHT,
Frank Scalise
#171, But what does some convention in KC have to do with California? In 1912, Theodore Roosevelt was the Republican candidate for President in California because he (or more properly, electors supporting him, were chosen in the primary). Taft supporters failed to create a new party to back him, and so he was a write-in candidate.
Almost a century later, Californians are denied the right to vote for candidates of their choice and choosing.
Patrick Henry & Abdul, that’s some interesting satire there. I bet you’re the same person. Are you “related” to Billy Bob Neck? Just a tip “Abdul,” if you’re going to pretend to be a Muslim, it’s Allahu Akbar. Happy trolling! Salaam Aleikum, Shalom, and Peace Out.
I don’t think its asking to much to know that the man known as President Elect Barack Obama to prove he is a Legal Citizen of the United Staes. The media jumped all over McCain being born in Panama and ran to Alaska to dig up everything they could on Sarah Palin’s background and even Joe the Plummer wasn’t spared for daring to question Barack Obama the “Choosen One”.
The think the Media should do their job and see if Obama is indeed an Natural Born US Citizen. Could Obama pass a FBI/CIA Background check or should he be above it? I don’t think so. I also think the man is hiding his Muslim past too and the fact that his step father adopted him making him a Indonesian Citizen regardless of where he claims to be born.
Just show it because the Birth Certificate on his website is obviously a fraud. And we the People deserve to know, even if the drones are happy with their pick, it is the Law that he be US born and can should have to prove it!
Hey Abdul – write again when you learn the English language and understand that in the United States the law REQUIRES that a person running president be a natural born Citizen you “dumb ass”. We have laws in place created by our Founding Fathers. They laws work! If you don’t like the laws we have, then leave! No one is holding you here.
It doesn’t bothers me that Obama is black, but its everything else, he’s a Socialist, socialize Health Care, socialize Medicine, socialize Oil and Government, Socialize the Auto Industry if they can. He’s was raised a Muslim in Indonesia (there are 57 Islamic States) and is pretending to be a Christian, he’s a Kenyan born, an Indonesian by adoption, a liar about ties to Acorn and Ayers and Rev. Wright, knows nothing about the how this country works and wants to spread the wealth. That is Socialism. I don’t care that he is all these things, I care that he pretends not to be all these things, but something else and that makes him a liar with power. That is scary!
Takion1, I emailed a copy of your letter to SCOTUS, and this is how they responded–
Dear Sir or Potential Illegal Alien and/or Terrorist:
We have received your petition of grievance, which is a right accorded to all US citizens under the first amendment of the Constitution. In order to respond to your grievance, we need to have proof you’re a US citizen. We can’t take your word that you are an American citizen who loves the Constitution. Please provide a certified and notarized copy of the long form of your birth certificate, along with a photocopy of the front and back of your driver’s license and a major credit card, your college transcripts, all employment personnel records, thumb print, IQ test results, blood type, and DNA. After we have received these items, and verified that they are not forgeries by posting them on the internet for the whole world to critique, AND it turns out that you really are a red-blooded American citizen, we will respond to your email. Until then, we consider you to be a Muslim, socialist, godless Marxist, fascist, racist like Obama. Have a blessed day.
Sincerely yours,
A patriotic, God loving Clerk of the Court
Reply to Don Grundmann posting #171-Nov. 20th at 5:47 P.M.
1. The AIP is not affiliated with the CP, the American Independent Party is affiliated with the
America’s Independent Party of Fenton, Mich. since,
June 27, 2008.
2. Grundmann stated “(w)hen I learned at the
Convention of …Keyes…followers I asked my
supporters to vote for Chuck Baldwin for President.” I do not recall any member of the
California delegation to the April, 2008 convention
in Kansas City that supported Don Grundmann for
President, other than himself. Don, are you now
talking to yourself or is the the hotel walls now your supporters?
I should know these fact, because I was the elected
head of the California delegation and took all the
tallies of the delegation at Kansas City convention.
Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American
Independent Party
Obama’s mother wasn’t a USA citizen @ the time of Obama’s birth.
He has made statement after statement thru out his campaigning , making slipups, to the fact he is a Muslim. There are portions of his books that detect that as well. Did the Muslims after the attack on America 9/11/01 say ” We will detroy America from within”! Yes, they did. And, Obamais more than likely the within that will be used.He is not trustworthy. The first meeting <private talkings, he had with Bush he has alredy talked about. And, I agree with others we have to show proof of who we are with birth certificates: driver licence, to be admitted in to school, passports, jobs, alot of other places require a birt certificate .
# 173
You talk bad girl you talk bad
Why don’t you go get some education???? Maybe Obama will run you one off the computer just like he has his birth certifuicate. But, you know that won’t help what comes out of your mouth.
No, we white people aren’t scared. I don’t care aboutwhat race Obama is. What I care about is that he isn’t a natural born USA citizen. He has lied through out his whole campaigning. He says one thing and in the next speech he says the total opposite. He needs to show his birth certificate that was given @ birth. Not a fictious one.
Here is a very clear distinction for those of you who haven’t done all your research yet. A CERTIFICATE of Live Birth is prepared when a child is born in a U.S. hospital and includes all the information such as time of birth, hospital delivered in, signature of attending physician, etc. See http://snarkybytes.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/hawaii-birth-certificate-1963.jpg for an example. On the other hand, a CERTIFICATION of Live Birth is only a REGISTRATION that the child was born and includes only minimal information such as the parents’ names. See Mr. Obama’s at http://www.barackobama.com/images/fts/BO_birthcert.jpg
This should clarify some things for some of you folks…
Short form vs. Long form birth certificate: somewhere in my house, I believe, is an original birth certificate from when I was born. I wasn’t able to find it recently when I wanted to get a passport, so I ordered a copy from the state. What they sent me was a short form. The state doesn’t give you an option of obtaining a copy of your original certificate, which has additional info (fingerprints, for example).
There is nothing fictitious about a short form certificate.
And by the way, the burden of proof is not on Obama to answer every tinfoil-hat nut who wants any piece of information they want.
This isn’t unusual. I heard that somebody from Pennsylvania is doing the same thing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA6_k3NtXZs
Does anybody have a good website to follow what is going on with the lawsuits? It’s such controlled media out there that i can’t find a whole lot that credible enough and updated regularly.
Why is it so hard for Obama to come up with his birth certifacate?If you want to be president you have to be Qualified…It is a big deal to go by the Constitution my forefathers died for it!!!And courts are sworn to uphold it!!! So courts do your JOB!
The legal issues concerning Obama’s “original birth certificate” and the “country of his birth” are essentially moot points! Apparently, Obama’s father was already married to a Kenyan woman at the time he married Obama’s pregnant mother. Under Hawaiian law said marriage was “void ab initio” and not voidable at the election of one of the parties. Said marriage was invalid from the onset. Applicable law(s) during 1961 state a child born out-of-wedlock in a foreign country to an American citizen mother and an alien father gains United States’ citizenship at birth if the mother had been physically present in the United States for a continuous period of one year prior to the child’s birth. If Obama’s lawyers can verify the then existing first marriage of Obama’s father, President-elect Obama will become our next President in accordance with the “Rule of Law” and our United States Constitution. Although, I proudly voided for Senator McCain, I offer my sincere congratulations to President-elect Obama and his family. May God keep you and your family safe! (A Retired Lawyer)
This is a no brainer. These documents should be provided, just as they are required for any other person seeking a position of responsibility within the Federal Government.
There is NO reason that these documents could not be scanned and posted on the Internet with all supporting information. There is, in states that this post is aware of, birth documents both from, and prepared by, the hospital, and documents that are filed with the state (in this case Hawaii) which constitute proof of birth for the purpose of the government.
So the source documents are really those from the hospital. They are the ones that need to back up any documents that the State of Hawaii has. It is quite possible that, if the hospital documents are available, and valid, that the attending physician may still be alive to question. There is also the possibility that many of the hospital staff might still be around to interview.
We are talking about the President of the United States here. Do you realize what might take place if, after Obama takes office, it is proven he did it through fraud? Do you realize WHY the founders put this presidential birth requirement in place? It was because, at the time the Constitution was written there had been Austrian princes placed in positions of power in Poland, as had Prussia and Hungary, in order to partition off Poland. In this way they took control of that country. Do you want to ignore the founders’ wisdom on this requirement?
Don’t be lazy. Do your own research on credible websites that give good accounts of this part of the history of our Constitution that relates to why it was decided that the President needs to be natural born.
For those of you whose “best” debunking techninque is to call anyone who exercises reason “crazy,” or “insane”, I suggest you look at your own motives. I suggest you also take a hard look at the facts, without letting your emotion get the best of you.
I’m sorry for it, but dismissing the overwhelming evidence against Mr. Obama as “crazy” no longer works.
Since I worked in the medical records dept of a hospital for some years, let me put in my 2 cents worth.
First of all, I looked at the Constitution which specifically states “natural born citizen”.
Second, at the hospital where I worked, we had babies born to illegal aliens and that made the BABY a citizen of OUR country.
Third, anyone born at our hospital could get a “certified” copy of the record of birth from the vital statistics of the state. That means of course that a person can get only his own record. Anyone else needing it would have to prove “guardianship, etc” or it could be obtained by subpoena.
So — why is it so hard for Mr. Obama to get his? (And the one “they” put out is NOT a valid copy of his birth certificate. Surely they could have done better than that!)
FOI request for Obama’s birth certificate –found on the internet at http://www.DailyJeff.com-has all 50 SOS emails-1 stop emailing!
FOI REQUEST TO ALL SOS FOR OBAMA’S BIRTH CERTIFICATE
We need to find out what the SOS of the various States know about Obama’s birth certificate and qualifications to be president. If you have time, please send/fax/email the following FOI (freedom of information letter) to some or all of the SOS bureau of elections. After you get a response please post on http://www.obamacrimes.com, http://www.freerepublic.com, http://www.peoplespassions.org, http://americamustknow.com,www.rallycongress.com.
1. The address , fax number and email address for the Bureau of elections for the states are at http://www.eac.gov.
2. I like the faxes because they will respond quicker to them. Print off your generic FOI request and past/tape the next name over the top and fax it off. See emails listed below for all 50 SOS.Cut and paste to send all 50 at one time. Sit back and wait for answers.
November 21, 2008
TO: BUREAU OF ELECTIONS
Bureau of Elections, California
1500 11th St, 5th Floor FAX: 916-653-5634
Sacramento, CA 95814 Email: elections@sos.ca.gov
ATTN: Freedom of Information Officer
REF: Freedom of Information Act Request/Privacy Act/ Open Meeting Act, Common Law
This is a request under the Freedom of Information Act. Please send the following documents for examining and photocopying:
1. Documents that show that Barack Obama is qualified to be President of the United States , including but not limited to:
a. Original birth certificate
b. Proof that he is a natural born United States citizen
c. Proof that he was born in Kenya
AS you know , the FOIA provides that if a portions of a document are exempt from release, the remainder must be segregated and disclosed. Therefore, I would like to examine all nonexempt portions of the records that I requested and I ask that you justify and deletions by citing specific exemptions of the FOIA
This is a continuing request into the future for 6 months.
If this is not the proper department, please forward to the Election Bureau/SOS.
I promise to pay reasonable search and duplication fees in connection with this request. (Note: The FOIA permit some fee reduction or waivers).
Please notify me if the charges will exceed ($20.00), so that I can decide whether to authorize a higher amount.
Thank you for your assistance, I look forward to receiving your reply within five business days, as required by law.
Sincerely,
Robert Johnson
123 Main St
Anywhere , CA
Cc: Clerk of the US Supreme Court
One First Street N.E.
Washington, DC 20543
FAX: (209) 479-3021
WARNING
Should any person try to cover up this request or documents herein, BE YOU HEREBY PUT ON NOTICE: You may be indicted under USC Title 18 Sec. 3. 4, 2381, 2382, 2383, and 2384. Also, 4 U.S.C. & 101, federal law requires all state employees and officers take an oath of office and records kept of such administered oath.
Jeannie.price@sos.alabama.gov,governor@alaska.gov,governorsoffice@asg-gov.net,
sosadmin@azsos.gov,sos@sosmail.state.ar.us,constituentaffairs@sos.ca.gov,
secretary@state.co.us ,susan.bysiewicz@po.state.ct.us ,lorilee.harrison@state.de.us ,
Stephanie.scott@dc.gov,secretaryofstate@dos.state.fl.us,sosweb@sos.state.ga.us,
elections@aloha.net,sosinfo@sos.idaho.gov,JWhite@ilos.net,
constituentservices@sos.in.gov,sos@sos.state.ia.us,kssos@kssos.org,sos.secretary@ky.gov,
bobby.jindal@la.gov,sos.office@maine.gov,bmorris@sos.state.md.us,
agoweb@state.ma.us,secretary@michigan.gov,secretary.state@state.mn.us,
administrator@sos.state.ms.us,sosmain@sos.mo.gov,sos@mt.gov,receptionist@sos.ne.gov,
sosmail@sos.nv.gov,elections@sos.state.nh.us,feedback@sos.state.nj.us,
nmsos@state.nm.us,info@dos.state.ny.us,emarshal@sosnc.com,sos@nd.gov,
tworley@sos.state.oh.us,governor@gov.state.ok.us,Oregon.sos@state.or.us,
pcortes@state.pa.us,correo@fortaleza.gobierno.pr,comments@sec.state.ri.us,
rdaggerhart@sos.sc.gov,sdsos@state.sd.us,phil.bredesen@state.tn.us,
secretary@sos.state.tx.us,mshurtleff@utah.gov,dmarkowitz@sec.state.vt.us,
justice@usvi.org,soc@governor.virginia.gov,mail@secstate.wa.gov,
wvsos@wvsos.com,wigov@gov.state.wi.us,secofstate@state.wy.us,
To any of those that posted dismay over this lawsuit I ask…”What flavor of Obama Kool-Aide did you have served?”
Keyes is a noble patriot for pursuing this legal issue. He’s always proven to exhibit integrity and honor. Anyone stupid enough to dismiss Keyes’ allegations as sour grapes, needs to educate themselves or be seated in the rear of the bus.
The birth certificate that was “eventually” provided by the Obama camp has been forensically examined and determined to be fraudulent and altered.
(http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SIsQJNTvlUE&feature=related AND http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9QdyLOUHz-A&feature=related)
Also it was furnished via an email transmittal. I was born in Hawaii and my birth certificate looks very much different than the one Obama provided via electronic transmittal. And…its a matter of public knowledge that, to date, any “original” documents that would prove (beyond any doubt) that Obama was an eligible candidate have not been provided for review. What are they hiding???
Obama has been requested (on multiple occasions) to present his original…
1) Hawaiian birth certificate
2) Academic records from his public schools and universities he attended.
3) Registration card he “should” have received from the Selective Service when he “supposedly” registered upon turning the age of 18.
NONE of these records have been offered for review and it’s VERY CLEAR as to why!!
BTW – I hope many of you readers that still believe Obama to be a GREAT “leader” can explain to other readers why…Obama is STILL unwilling to prove that he registered with the Military Selective Service (to which there’s no record). Do the American voters know that failure to register (whether a citizen or non-citizen residing in the U.S.)is deemed as a felony and carries up to a $250,000 fine and/or five years imprisonment in a Federal facility? Also they’re provisions that restrict the eligibility of felons to run for the highest office in the land. Please educate yourselves imbeciles by reviewing the Selective Service Act. This requirement was suspended during the Ford Administration but re-instated during the Carter Administration.
Furthermore, men born after Dec 31, 1959, (Obama’s supposed date of birth was in Aug ’61) who fail to register won’t qualify for Federal student loans or grant programs. That’s the other reason for Obama not providing his educational records since its alleged his college fees were defrayed because he registered as a “foreign” student. His Indonesian public school records show he registered as being of Islamic faith after being adopted by his Indonesian step-father while assuming his step-father’s surname “Soetoro”.
By the way, if indeed Obama once practiced the Muslim faith, and its been proven he did, he is now what Muslim Law calls a “murtadd” (apostate). In other words he’s an ex-Muslim who converted to another religion which is punishable by death under the Muslim teachings. That said, please consider the ramifications of this and the implications of this when dealing with the Muslim world.
(RE:http://www.mycopper.net/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=14&TopicID=15440&PagePosition=1)
With all this said what is Obama clearly hiding or are some of you readers so misguided you refuse to consider the alternatives while professing to be color-blind. You’re definitely “blind” though.
In closing all I can say. to those that continue to truly believe this election was not a fraud,…
“Keyes, I hope you kick ass!!!!!”
And to Philip Berg, Esq (Pennsylvania lawsuit from a liberal Democrat lawyer entitled Berg vs Obama, DNC, and National Election Committee)…I hope your Writ of Ceriorari is granted by the US Supreme Court before Jan 20, 2009.
(http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6Glyla5R7B8&feature=related)
There is a much larger issue at play here that people don’t seem to want to discuss. most people who post on these threads are readily convinced that Obama is not a natural born citizen and for good reason. The real issue is the impending civil unrest that will result in him being a usurper. I have heard people ask why the media is not picking this up? Is it because it is too small and not news worthy? Actually it is for the opposite reason. It is absolutely the greatest and most profound news event in US history. The people who continue to keep this concealed and those responsible for the deception are playing with a ticking time bomb. when the rubber meets the road, Americans will not tolerate the Constitution of the United States being trampled under foot (remember the Bill Ayers flag image?). There are far to many of our progenitors who paid the price for the constitutions sanctity. Most Americans have only to go back a few generations to count the many losses in their families for servicemen who fought and lost their lives to protect their freedom. Did you also notice that in all of the many thousands of speeches delivered by BHO he never mentioned the word freedom a single time? Why is that? I believe that the sobering truth is becoming more evident every day. Obama wants us to become government breast feeders and unfortunately there are a lot of people who think this is just fine. Well all I can say is that it is not just fine for millions of other americans who will not compromise this countries Sovereignty under any circumstance. Someone had better wake up before they send this nation into total chaos.
In the event (which I consider extremely unlikely) that Obama were declared to be ineligible for the presidency, then under the 20th Amendment, Joe Biden would become the acting president on Jan. 20, and would serve the entire four-year term.
“If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified ….”
If this were a situation in which the president elect were not 35 years old yet, or had not been a U.S. resident for 14 years, but was within four years of achieving the appropriate requisite, presumably the vice president elect would act as president until the president elect met the qualifications.
There’s an article online, “Deadlock: What Happens If No One Wins” by Laurence H. Tribe and Thomas M. Rollins. Depending on when ineligibility was discovered, either Dick Cheney or Joe Biden would become Acting President until the House of Representatives picked the President. Some people here have suggested McCain would become President by default, since the remaining electoral votes were cast for McCain. However, McCain didn’t reach the magic 270, and there’s such a thing as a “faithless elector.” A faithless elector could vote for Biden for President and Obama for Vice President. I doubt this would happen, but what if one elector voted for Biden for President and another for Keyes for President. With Obama’s votes disqualified, the House would have to choose between McCain, Biden, and Keyes for President, as they would be the top three electoral vote recipients. At least that’s what I get from Tribe’s article. Perhaps I’m misreading it.
Oh, I did misread one part. It looks like either Joe Biden or Sarah Palin would become the acting President under the Lawrence H. Tribe scenario!
The United States Supreme Court “Distributed for Conference of Dec. 5th, 2008”
Leo C. Donofrio, Applicant
v.
Nina Mitchell Wells, New Jersey Secretary of State
United States Supreme Court docket no. 08A407
http://www.supremecourtus.gov/docket/docket.html
Type in the docket #.
Section 1, Article II of the U.S. Constitution states:
Article II: “No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.â€
But McCain is a natural-born citizen, even though he was not born within this country’s borders, since his parents were citizens at the time of his birth. As a congressional act stated in 1790:
Congress: “And the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens.”
Barack Obama is a natural born citizen whether born in Hawaii or Kenya. I believe he was born in Hawaii and his grandparents published a birth announcement in a local Hawaiian newspaper a few days after his birth.
McCain was born in Panama Canal. He is a natural born citizen.
Mitt Romney was born in Mexico. He is a natural born citizen.
What do all these men have in common? One of there parents was a natural born American citizen.
Alan Keyes is a joke.
Just for fun google news “Posse Comitatus Act” which may have some impact as far as riots and insurrection.
It is amazing to me the number of Obama supporters that keep chanting fighthesmears, factcheck and other worthless websites that have a copy of a CERTIFICATION OF LIVE BIRTH. That would be opposed to a CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH or preferably the original BIRTH CERTIFICATE.
Please note this, the CERTIFICATION OF LIVE BIRTH is useless for any evidence of whether or not Obama meets the Constitutional standard of being a “natural born citizen”. You may as well make copies and hang it in your restroom. So please, until one of you have a cite to a CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH or a BIRTH CERTIFICATE, then keep it to yourself. The tip is to look at the top of the document. If says anything other that CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH or a BIRTH CERTIFICATE then keep it to yourself.
Please note, that Mr. Obama could produce either a CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH or a BIRTH CERTIFICATE by simply signing a release and paying $12.00 or so. Instead he appears perfectly willing to risk a National and Constitutional crisis on this point. If Obama fails to provide the documentation there is no other conclusion than he is hiding something.
If you go back in time to at least February of this year you will find numerous newspaper articles, including one from the New York Times, regarding this same issue for McCain. At the same time the same questions were being asked of Obama. Yes this has been an issue for over a year. But there is a complete main stream media blackout on any reporting on this issue for Obama. So now Obama supporters are saying that it is sour grapes, get over it, blah blah, but the fact remains this is such an enormous problem because the press covered it up, Obama produced a bogus document, and citizens around the country have had to file lawsuits trying to get this answered before Obama takes office.
In response to this, McCain being a honorable man who knew that this was an important question that had to be answered before the election, produced his records to the Senate and there was a ruling that McCain was a “natural born citizen”. Mr. Obama was present in April 2008 when that happened.
Did Mr. Obama stand up and say, “You know the same questions are being asked of me. As a Constitutional attorney I understand the importance of avoiding voter fraud and the terrible consequences that would unfold if an ineligible candidate is elected. I hereby produce my records and ask the Senate to do the same for me.” Anyone?
Obama’s response. Produce a CERTIFICATION OF LIVE BIRTH, that is not even valid for obtaining a passport and according to Hawaiian laws is not proof of birth in Hawaii to factcheck, fighthesmears and other websites.
To this day Obama refuses to sign a release and pay $12.00. He would prefer a Constitutional and National crisis rather than produce the evidence to prove if he meets the “natural born citizen” test set forth in the Constitution.
Shortly there will be calls from Obama supporters to do the same thing for Obama that the Senate did for McCain. Sorry, that ship has left the dock. If Obama wanted that he should have had the constitution (pun intended) to stand up with McCain last April and lay his records on the Senate table and have the issue resolved before the election. Any attempt by the Senate and the House to try and give Obama a pass at this point will be the great mother of all plonkers in the National Punch Bowl.
I agree with John Adams that the original birth certificate is more impressive evidence than an abstract of the original. It would also carry more weight with the general public. However, what’s important is the court of law, not the court of public opinion. Hawaii’s short form certifications of live birth say, “This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding. [HRS 338-13(b) 338-19]”
I looked up the law referenced, and it says, “(b) Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes the same as the original, subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18.”
The other sections refer to such things as late or altered birth certificates. It says that late and altered certificates “shall contain the date of the late filing and the date of the alteration and be marked distinctly ‘late’ or ‘altered’.” There is no date of late filing or alteration on Obama’s certification. It shows the filing date as Aug. 8, 1961. A notarized copy of a COLB is worthless, but a certified copy of a COLB under the laws of Hawaii, is “for all purposes the same as the original.”
John Adams, you used the term “great mother of all plonkers.” That’s a British or Australian term. It’s not American. You also put your periods outside the quotation marks. That’s not the American way of doing it. That’s the Queen’s English. Methinks someone else isn’t a natural born American citizen.
tater..i also put my periods outside of the quotation marks. I’ve lived in colorado most all my life. Maybe i had an english english teacher?
Refutation of so-called asserations of LMDS #199 November 25th 2008 at 9:57 a.m.
LMDS stated “Mc’Cain was born in the Panama Canal.”
First, Robert Wright (McCain’s mom) was no a fish.
Second, John Sidney McCain III was born at 6:25 p.m. on 29 August 1936 in the Colon Hospital, City of Colon, Republic of Panama. Third, in Faith of my Fathers McCain and Roberta Wright on CNN place
a marriage in TJ Baja California at Ceasar Bar on
Saturday, 21 January 1933. This is an incorrect statement. All marriages in Baja California after
1927, must be at the Civil Registry. Roberta Wright and Jack McCain never married in Baja California. If they did not get married outside
Baja California than John McCain was born out of
wedlock. The Collective Naturalization Canal Zone
and Republic of Panama Act of August 4, 1937, United States Code, title 8, section 5e requires
the parents to be married for full coverage. Since, no valid marriage and Roberta Wright McCain
listed her employment on the birth certificate as
a housewife and a requirement was that the parent
had to be employed by the Panama Canal Railroad or it successor in title or in the alternative being
employed by the United States Government, John Sidney McCain III should have never been a United States Senator, because he is not a citizen of the
United States.
Sincerely, Mark Seidenberg, Vice Chairman, American
Independent Party
I have read most of the responses and there is a lot of uneducated people making responses. 1. Just because Obama’s mother was a US citizen in 1961 there were laws on the books that declare Obama a British Subject if he was in fact born in Kenya. HE WOUld not be a US Citizen. He also became a citizen of Idonesia when adopted by his step father. He traveled to Pakistan when he was 20 on an Indonesian Passport. Back the US Citizens were not allowed to enter Pakistan but Barack was allowed because of his Indonesian citizenship. He would have been required to re-apply for US Citizenship when he was 18 but it is apparent he did not due to his travel to Pakistan when he was 20. He also will not release any College records…..we assume…and have no reason to believe other wise because he won’t open his records….that his application to college was as an Indonesian citizen. Also, his Certificate of Live Birth was what he gave as proof not his raised seal “vault” copy of his birth certificate. COLB does not prove you were actually born in Hawaii. This COLB has been proven by experts to be a forged document. So Mr. Keyes you keep on truckin. There are many who feel you are right. I don’t care what color the President is….if you are not a natural born citizen it is against the constitution of our country to become the President. That is the same rule that keeps Arnold Schwartzenger from becoming President. I truly hope this proves to be a false fact but with everything I have read I really feel it is true. When the government wants to cover up something it is very easy for them to do. Look at JFK. He was a drup addict who suffered from venerial disease and all kinds of health problems and it is not until recently this is all coming out. I just watched a legitimate documentary about him and was so surprised to hear about all the cover up. They had actual Kennedy’s in this documentary substantiated the claims about how it was covered up. So believe me they are covering for Obama big time. If he is proven not to be a citizen and there is a revolt over it then so be it. No matter what we do in this country the constitution must remain as it has for many years. We are facing bad times right now but they have been worse and people forget that. When Carter was president we had 70% tax bracket with double digit unemployment. Just another example of what high taxation will do to our economy. We have had many good years under Bush and we will be restored again and it will not be because of Obama.
Trena, let me guess. The English teacher who taught you to place periods outside quotation marks is the same teacher who taught you capitalization. 🙂
she was a lousy typing teacher too.
I had Trena’s teacher for english to. She taught me verb subject agreement like this sentence–“there is a lot of uneducated people making responses”. Yeah she was a lousy typing teacher. I know how to spill “venerial”. I just can’t type it. She was a good guvment teacher anyways. She taught me about duel citizenship. It’s illegal in America. That’s why they arrested Aaron Burr for killing Alexander Hamilton and why Obama can’t be president. She also taught me the importance of staying away from drups so I don’t end up like Rush Limbaugh.
Is is possible to subpoena the federal or state governments census records from 1970-present? That information has date of birth, place of birth, Mothers place of birth, Father’s place of birth, who they’re living with.
Just an idea. Or perhaps a possibility.
What about Obama not registering for military service either…and health records. What is he hiding?
This is nonsense people. Chiyome Fukino, the director of the Department of Health in Hawaii, has stated that he has Obama’s birth certificate on file. He said, specifically, that he has “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.”
There is no difference between a ‘Certificate of Live Birth’ and a ‘Birth Certificate’ in Hawaii except that the former is a shortened form of the latter. The dude who has concluded that the BC posted on Obama’s website is a forgery has not had access to the actual document, has found no support by any peers in his field, and is heavily associated with members of several right-wing organizations who have been pushing this BC nonsense from the beginning. Can you say ‘conflict of interest’? It is impossible for this man to have any form of impartiality on the matter–so is it him or Hawaii state officials?
Releasing his BC would be an unecessary distraction from real issues that need to be addressed, and even if it were 100% legit, only a fool would think that those who are clamoring for invalidating Obama’s candidacy would really admit it was legit–they’d find some absurdity to carry this on.
The ‘evidence’ for this stuff is smoke and mirrors, and the State of Hawaii has shut the door on the matter. But, like I said, just like with the 9/11 truthers, everyone and everything is conspiring against them; everything is a lie unless it supports their case; the government is in on it; everything’s been covered up, tampered with, etc. THAT sort of paranoia denotes lunacy; that’s why I can, with certainty, calling these conspiracy-theorists loonies; that’s why I find this all laughable. But, by all means, continue to aid your political opponent by whining about this. It is the only way, after all, to keep yourself in denial about how deranged you’ve become.
I can’t find any site yet that says Hawaii short form birth certificates are unacceptable.
That’s because the short form IS acceptable. My husband used it to get his passport. His original, hospital-issued “long form” birth certificate was NOT accepted because 1950 was before statehood and the Department of Homeland Security wants documents certified by the state. My guess was that in 1961, merely two years after statehood, there was not yet a unified state form that all hospitals used.
His birth was listed in the paper, but it’s not the kind of “announcement” that a family member submits. It’s a reprinting of the list of births the health department compiles… FROM HOSPITAL RECORDS.
The burden of proof that Obama was born in Hawaii is clearly met.
The burden of proof has not been met that BHO birth took place in Hawaii. The document he has shown doesn’t list the hospital or doctor signature along with a lot of other missing info. If he is a natural born USA citizen he should be proud to show his BC unlike Michelle who has never been proud to be an American citizen before.
Barack Hussein Obama will also not release his school records, which gives me cause to think they have his place of birth on them. Phillip J. Berg also has a lawsuit pending before the U.S. Supreme Court on this very issue, which is to be heard on either Dec. 1st or 5th. Mr. Berg also has a recording of Barack Hussein Obama’s paternal grandmother stating that she was at his birth in Kenya.Visit Mr. Berg’s website (Obamacrimes.com) and you will learn alot about this case. Mr. Keys also explains why the “certificate” submitted by Obama is not sufficient. I am NOT suprised we haven’t heard anything from the main stream media (term used lightly), but I can’t figure out why daytime conservative talk radio hosts aren’t covering it. BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA is trying to alter our constitution and WE CANNOT STAND FOR IT!!!
Correction: I stated that Mr. Keyes has info on the “certificate”. Actually it is Phillip J. Berg. Go to his website. Again, it is Obamacrimes.com
The Supreme Court will not uphold the US Constitution for fear of bloodshed by all the lamebrains who will yell, “Racism, racism, black man haters,” etc. Idiot voters put this man is the Presidency position and we will be stuck with him. Even if we know he’s a fraud, a man who brings off-the-wall baggage with him it doesn’t matter.
Voters voted for a man who is a secretive fraud, who they know nothing about, the DNC and the FEC blew it and nothing will be done about it. The MSM will not say anything about it. Just about Sara Palins clothes, her down-syndrone baby, etc.
Idiots!
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86757.pdf
Stanley Ann Dunham was 19 when Barak was born “after 1952″ and before “1986″. FAILS REQUIREMENT to be in the US for 5 after she is 14 years old.
7 FAM 1133.2-2 Original Provisions and Amendments to
Section 301
(CT:CON-204; 11-01-2007)
a. Section 301 as Effective on December 24, 1952: When enacted in 1952,
section 301 required a U.S. citizen married to an alien to have been
physically present in the United States for ten years, including five after
reaching the age of fourteen,……
Isn’t that the major problems right there? The word married. Obama Sr., an alien, had a wife back in Kenya. America does not recognise bigamy. I would suspect the reason for not producing the Birth Certificate is that his parents were not married.
To all the bugnuts who think the certificate of live birth online is the document sought, you are WRONG!! COLB simply certifies a birth took place and is registered in the state, however it is not the state long form document with embossed seal that is a legal document. It will not be sufficient to prove citizenship. If it was lost, stolen, or misplaced, the HI hospital would have a copy on file….now that hospital would be which one???? None in HI have one, it has been checked time and time again….so, what you have is a schuckster/shill/con/wannabe trying to usurp the white house.
Republicans and independents seem to be sore losers and need to get over it. With the state of the economy, two wars, domestic issues that are endless and Alan Keyes wants to play this silly game. I wonder why he failed so miserably in the primary’s? He’s a nobody that cant handle it. Get over it Alan and move on, Americans don’t want anything to do with you in our political system. You bring the entire county down.
The fact of the matter is that it doesn’t even matter what we the people think of the whole situtation. Facts speak for their self, Obama is hiding something or else he wouldn’t be waisting the effort it takes in fighting these allegations, he would just provide proof. I mean how hard could it be to simply put everyones minds to rest I mean he is the president elect. If anyone can get access to sealed documents he could.. Why not say look I have nothing to hide here is your proof? Because he can’t..thats why!!! Who cares about the threats of violence and riots it happens every day anyway.. They want to call the white people prejeduice but its always the black people that are saying poor me we were slaves well all I have to say is get the HELL over it!! White people have become the minority to blacks, mexicans, japs, and everyone that decides to jump the waters. So how about saying poor us for a change!! Anyway back to the point, I alnog with every other full blooded american believe that it is a bunch of crap that the comander in cheif-elect can get by with this and keep it out of the news just because he is a black man. And thats all it boils down to…
It is as plain as BLACK AND WHITE. You look at those who wish to see Obamas real proof of citizenship and those that just want to ignore it.
If it is to ever go away, have Obama step up to the table and show it, after all.
CK
FYI… Factcheck is not a reputable website. They have past ties to Obama. The only fact that needs to be checked is whether the people who voted for Obama are legally sane enough to vote!
COLB simply certifies a birth took place and is registered in the state
No, it does more than that. You have conveniently omitted the fact that a COLB will also mention the place of birth, not just that the birth was registered in the state. Obama’s COLB says he was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, not Mombassa, Kenya. in Aug. 1961, two independent, rival Hawaiian newspapers published the Bureau of Health’s announcement of Obama’s birth, and the announcement does not indicate that Obama had been born out-of-state: that means the Bureau of Health’s records (i.e. the “vault” long form certificate) show his place of birth as Hawaii. That is the most likely explanation for the June 2007 COLB showing Obama as having been born in Hawaii.
Now, if Obama were really born in Kenya, then we’d have to envision the implausible scenario of his mother hopping an international flight a day or two after giving birth to take her son to Hawaii, and fraudulently registering his birth as soon as she’d landed in Hawaii.
Why would a post-partum 19-year-old girl do such a thing? How likely is it that she’d have been up to airplane travel and could have made travel arrangements so soon and so quickly after delivering her first child in a Kenyan hospital, and been motivated to file bureacratic red tape so promptly? This scenario just strains credulity.
however it is not the state long form document with embossed seal that is a legal document.
The COLB is a legal document too. It even says so.
It will not be sufficient to prove citizenship.
It’s good enough to get a U.S. passport, so it is good enough to prove citizenship.
The obvious answer to the question, “Why won’t be release his original birth certificate?” is, “Because the short form he released in June 2008 more than suffices.”
If it was lost, stolen, or misplaced, the HI hospital would have a copy on file
No they wouldn’t. I doubt very many U.S. hospitals still have their records from 1961. A couple years ago I asked the hospital where I was treated for near-fatal skull fractures in 1972 if they still had my records. They said federal and state law only requires them to keep records for, oh I forget, 20 or 30 years, and back in the early 1980s they destroyed all their old records since they had so many and were not required by law to keep any of them prior to a certain date. My records were long gone.
now that hospital would be which one???? None in HI have one, it has been checked time and time again….
Whichever hospital he was born in, if he was born in a hospital at all, we should not expect the records to still exist.
As for why Obama “won’t” release his copy of the long-form birth certificate — what if he doesn’t have it any more? Years ago my dad accidentally pitched my and my brothers’ long-form certificates, and we had to obtain new copies — COLBs. The state’s copies of our birth certificate, of course, remain the private property of the state (no, they’re not public records accessible to anyone), and cannot be released to anyone — by law not even I can obtain my original long-form, though I can view it at the state archives and can receive a state-certified copy. I would suppose a court could for good cause order the release of the original. Anyway, people really need to stop demanding that Obama do things he has already done, or that he cannot do without a judge’s permission and that he doesn’t need to do to prove his U.S. citizenship. I know it sucks (man does it suck!), but the guy was elected, and now all we can do is pray that he doesn’t wreck the country too badly. Leaning on flimsy reeds like this not-a-citizen conspiracy theory is unhealthy escapism.
Escapism is what obama is doing, trying to ecsapr the fact that he is not a US citizen, he is living in a fantasy world if he thinks that the truth won’t come out. The truth always prevails!! And as for not being able to get old hospital records that is not true I have worked in hospital records and the only time old ones are shreded is once they have been documented from front to back in a computer. So it may take the hospital a few days to produce them, they are there…
Like many of the comments I have read regarding this issue of Senator Obama’s eligibility, it is almost surreal that we have gotten to this point and the matter of Sen. O’s meeting the constitutional requirement of natural born citizenship has not been irrefutably answered. He is NOT yet the “President Elect” – He becomes the “PE” on December 15th once the electoral college meets and casts their votes. If they cast their votes for a “usurper”, they are liable to be sued for treason. I pray that it will be resolved but he cannot take the oath of office to uphold the constitution if in fact he is in defiance of the law.
Re: “it is almost surreal that we have gotten to this point.”
Here is what is surreal. Back in first grade or kindergarten you were taught “one plus one equals two,” but you say “no it’s not. Let the teacher prove it to me again.”
The fact is that Obama was born in Hawaii. This is proved by a government document from the state of Hawaii.
The allegations that he was born in Kenya are simply crazy, requiring that his mother traveled to Kenya in the ninth month of pregnancy when you had to get a Yellow Fever shot to go to Africa (not good during pregnancy) and that she lied and claimed that he was born in Hawaii for the rest of her life. Why should she lie? If Obama had been born in Kenya, why wouldn’t she be proud of that fact? It would be, after all, somewhat unusual and worth discussing with friends: “I remember the hospital, how hot it was? Etc.
So, he was born in Hawaii.
The allegations that he lost his US citizenship due to dual nationality are legally suspect. There have been a lot of Supreme Court cases on the matter, and they always rule that you cannot lose your US citizenship by accident or by the actions of your parent when you are a child.
So there is nothing surreal. Have you noticed that McCain and the Republican party have not claimed that Obama is ineligible? Why not? Because they know how unlikely it would be for him to have been born in Kenya (or perhaps they did their own research and could not find any evidence that he was born in Kenya) and they know how difficult it is to lose US citizenship.
you liberal morons have to wake up and smell the coffee. Barak Obama has a past that when you look at it as a whole you can’t help but see a major pattern. How about that anti-christ preacher of his who Obama allowed his hate filled trash to pelt his little girls ears from an early age. The man said “God Damn America” and Obama had no problem with that until he was running for president. The Bill Ayers thing falls right in line with his sicko preacher. Here is a guy that said he didn’t do enough killing when asked about his terrorist organization the Weathermen. And Barak the moron Obama had the audacity to kick off his presidential campaign from this domestic enemy’s living room. You liberal democrats just continue to stick your head between your legs and ignore the anti-christ that wants to suttley take away your rights and socialize your government. Wake up folks he is a wolf in sheeps clothing. Talk about the wolf minding the chicken coup.
I can’t believe there is anyone out there with half a brain that actually thinks Obama has the experience or knowhow to run a Mcdonalds let alone the U.S. of A. You can’t even count two thirds of his one term in the Senate because it was spent trying to hoodwink America into believing that he could run the country. The only thing Obama has is a gift of gab. He is about as smooth a talker as has come along. The last time someone came along that was as dynamic as Obama that person killed 7 million jews. We all know who that was because he sure doesn’t deserve any more recognition. I thing most of you liberal idiots will get a clue when you realize that the taliban wanted Obama to be the president because they can do what ever they want with a pussy like him minding the store.
$12 buys a certified long form certificate. How much money has Mr O (and his supporters) wasted on leagal fees to seal up this document?
Never-the-less, Fraud? Who cares, the people have spoken.
1.)Hawaii state official says they have Obama’s birth records.
2.)The COLB is a legal document, says so on it–irrefutable fact.
3.)Man who stated “it’s a fraud” with ties to conservative interest groups vs. Hawaii state official–latter wins.
4.)Most HI state hospitals do not keep records before 1980, not obligated too, BC becomes private property of state, unreleasable except to person born, that’s why no one can find a record–irrefutable fact.
Why doesn’t Obama release BC? Doesn’t need to–COLB enough to legally prove citizenship. Why doesn’t McCain release his? Alan Keyes? G.W. Bush? The late Ronald Reagan? WHAT ARE THEY HIDING?
Supporters of this conspiracy=nutjobs.
Again….why doesn’t or why can’t somebody subpoena the census for hawaii?
It amazes me how many people are wasting their time on proving Obama’s citizenship. How we forget that Bush sent us to war in Iraq over “Weapons of Mass Destruction” that didn’t exist. Over 4000 solders are dead. Over 50,000 severly injured. Keys should invest that money into his next campaign. The people have voted, let’s move on. I am a christian and I know that none of these moral issues will never been overturned. That’s why the Constitution states that there must be a separation of church and state.
We have more serious issues to deal with i.e. higher taxes, a down economy, two wars that we can’t win and a new generation of destroyed families.
If Obama was white would you be requesting his birth certificate? Some of you are a bunch of sore losers!
okay…sounds like you didn’t like bush.
Here’s a scenario for you.
What if bush WASN’T a NATURAL BORN citizen either but he got more votes than the other guy and you adamantely disagree with his policies or beliefs and didn’t vote for him…..would it be okay with you for him and his voters to CHANGE the CONSTITUTION to suit THEIR needs?
can i spell it out any clearer?
To Alan Keyes, its my understanding that you lost to Obama in the 2004 election. If this be truth, then you are a true witness to the scripture which says, “Jealousy is as cruel as the grave” Therefore I must remind you that vengence belong to God and not to man, neither can man curse that which God has already blessed.
So while you are pursuing your vengence, remember this, ” If this work be not of God, you will be found in a battle with God, himself.
And I am sure Rev. Wiley Drake, being a carrier of the gospel of Jesus Christ, can show you where this passage of scripture is found.
God will not permit you, nor any other earthly being to remove this young man from the place where he, himself, placed him. So your fight is not with Obama, but God. Take heed to yourself, less you find yourself in the hands of an angry God. Obama is God’s vessel, and he will fight for him.
The necessary qualification needed to be president of the United States of America are: one must be born in this country, must have resided here for 14 or more consecutive years and be at least 35 years old. These are qualifications that Barack Obama have most certainly met. So this whole notion that he was born in Kenya Or Indonesia is absolutely ridiculous. It’s kind of amazing to think that if I’m applying for a low end position airport job there is a rigorous background test run on my behalf. But to apply for the office of president of the United States (the highest office in the land)and there is not even an effective investigation on who I am and if I may or may not be eligible. I just don’t get that. all in all, Barack Obama would not be our president If he was not born of this united States of America.
The Supreme court is not going to comment, act on, or do ANYTHING about any of these lawsuits having to do with Barack Obama! Forget about it.
Aticle II clause 5 of the united states constitution clearly states that:
“No person except a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN OR CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES AT THE TIME OF THE ADOPTION OF THIS CONSTITUTION WILL BE ELIGIBLE FOR THE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT.
Natural born means that BOTH of his parents must hold American Citizenship at the time of his birth in order for him to be recognized as natural born.
Why do you think the framers put that “natural born” clause in there. So that just not every tom, dick, or harry LIVING in the states could hold office of the president.
Their intent was to make sure that every person elected to office of the President didn’t hold allegiance to a foreign country, even via his citizenship status, which is given AT BIRTH through BOTH of his PARENTS CITIZENSHIP STATUS.
Amendment 14 wouldn’t even come into play either. Yes, you can be born in the united states from immigrant parents and be a CITIZEN. You can also be naturalized in the united states from foreign countries and still be a citizen…BUT THAT STILL DOESN’T MAKE YOU A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN!
Revisit your 7th grade history class that you hated so badly in school. I know i did.
BTW….”citizen AT THE TIME of the ADOPTION of THIS constitution.”
Barack Obama was a speck of dust as we all were back on Sept 17th 1787.
DEAR JUSTICE ALAN KEYES,
6 DEC 2008.
SIR,
I AM VERY HEAVY IN MY HEART THAT THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION IS A “THING OF THE PAST”. OUR FOREFATHERS CREATED THE CONSTITUTION AND DIED OVER IT,THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR, CIVIL WAR, WW1, WW2, KOREAN WAR, VIETNAM WAR, AND THE PERSIAN GULF WAR.
THE CONSTITUTION IS HOUSED INTO A STAND BEFORE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO BE GAZED UPON THOSE FAMOUS WORDS THAT ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL.
SIR,
WE MUST FOLLOW THE LAWS OF THE LAND OR WE WILL NOT CONTINUE AS A NATION. PLEASE MR KEYES, PLEASE BRING THIS LAWSUIT AGAINST OBAMA HE HELD, AND THAT THE SWEARING IN CEREMONY BE DELAYED SO THIS PEOPLE OF AMERICA, CAN STOP OBAMA.
SIR, HE IS NOT A MAN FOR THIS JOB. HES A COUNTERFEIT.
I BEG YOU TO STAND UP AND BE NOTICED AND THAT ALL MEMBERS OF THE SUPREME COURT WILL DO THEIR “JOB”.
I AM SO SICK OF ALL THIS,,, THIS MAN OBAMA IS NOT A PERSON WE CAN TRUST. WE ARE GOING TO REAP WHAT WE SOWED SOON IF THIS MAN CONTINUES.
PLEASE, STOP OBAMA.
DICK QUICK
EAU CLAIRE, WI
Everything about Obama is fraudulent. He is the ultimate con man who by smooth words schmoozed his way into the empty heads of the American voting populous. As sickening as it is to think about it- America may have what she deserves with this devil!
Get over it, people! It’s PRESIDENT-ELECT OBAMA! PRESIDENT-ELECT OBAMA! PRESIDENT-ELECT OBAMA! I know you’d love to destroy his presidency over baseless garbage like this, but it ain’t gonna happen.
Unfortunately, the current President has left him with the biggest mess that any President has left another President in our lifetime–a tanking economy, an unending war that we entered under false pretenses (remember “Mission Accomplished?), a deteriorating environment . . . Let’s not forget that when Katrina was destroying New Orleans, Bush was at McCain’s birthday party, and Bush didn’t even know that the levies had broken even though it was being broadcast by every news station in the country. He hasn’t even killed Osama Bin Laden. Let’s hope 8 years is enough for President-elect Obama to straighten out the mess Bush is leaving to him.
These ‘chicken little’ theories first get generated by vicious rumors then get fueled by so called experts. Why? Because many would rather believe some of these rumors so they can expell a Black man because they simply don’t ever want a Black man to be in such high authority over them.
Someone mentioned riots and revolution? Gee, when a group of Blacks get together and are upset and frustrated, that’s what many Whites think will happen.
But, when one sees so many Whites and one petty jealous Black man who stood no chance at being elected fairly rob someone of a campaign that was fairly fought, it makes one angry and very disillusioned and proves that many can’t stand in the ‘we the people, for the people’ allow a ‘colored man’ the opportunity. They will pull him down just to get him out.
We are in the midst of one of the worst recessions since the Depression and it has yet to subside. But, so many are upset that a president-elect has some conspiracy with Muslims and revolutionary groups doctoring his birth certificate. They are incensed by what ‘others’ tell them perhaps wrongly and misleadingly without checking on the information themselves. They refuse to believe what has already been proven.
I see these lawsuits as nothing more than witch hunts, based on rumors, conspiracy thoughts and racists underpinnings.
I am so sick of this. This is hidden and blatant racism at its worst. Many do not want a Black president and will believe any outrageous and sinister to prevent it even if they think he was born outside of the country with a legitimate birth certificate on file in Hawaii.
One of the serious issues, is what if these theorists got a chance to review the certificates upclose and person? I mean, what if they were able to view it in the records office under close supervision of the officials? What would be the excuse then? They the theorists, would claim they couldn’t fully examine it to determine its authencity and were pressured and intimated by the officials while in their presence.
They would want to be able to take it offsite for their ‘experts’ to review. Who is to say that their experts wouldn’t doctor it to make it state something suspect? No one ever shows all these experts classifications, licenses and experience, they only talk in general about ALL the experts findings.
Obama’s short and long birth certificates are on file. For every one that asks, and demands his certificate, it makes no sense to stop and physically and personally pull it out. He had staff post it on file, an official of the Hawaiian state government verified it, and when he applied for candidacy of the U.S. he submitted proof which was researched by an office that was governed by a Republican presidency.
When we elected Carter we were tired and jaded. There was no conspiracy about him, just he was outside the political arena that fostered Watergate. Watergate was a serious offense, yet, somehow this is so much worse a situation that it could seriously endanger the U.S.
How? We are economically in the worse situation since the Depression, other countries are faring even worse than us, yet, this controversy over the birth certificate will save us from what? How about it shows just how much racism and the issue many have that bothers them so much a Black man governs the U.S. they would think up and believe he is an alien from outer space than see him for what he is.
How in the world and why would two college students with a meager income manage to fly to Kenya at the time the country was dealing with internal strife deliver a child in subpar medical and economic environment? Then, after the birth return immediately to the U.S.? What would be the purpose? He has stated on record in his books when he met his paternal side.
Theorists questioned the paternal grandmother in another language using interpreters. I dunno, were the interpreters licensed and certified to be interpreters? Was the entire conversation released, or excerpts that were carefully cut and edited released? Was the woman confused as to what was said to her and therefore was answering misleading questions?
Obama’s mother had sole custody of him and raised him without his biological father present the majority of his life. Her parents were raised in Kansas, she was born in Kansas. He stated that his grandmother had raised him for the majority of his teenage years, I think she qualifies for the five years issue, since she and her husband were guardians of him.
Too many people have the heebeegeebies over Obama becoming president because he simply is Black. Think about this, McCain didn’t want him, other conservative republicans didn’t want him, many of his own democratic party didn’t want him and many, many racists who guise themselves as concerned citizens don’t want him and will use whatever tactics possible to influence others to not want him too.
These conspiracists didn’t want him either because of petty jealousness, racism and sorry, even mental illness. Many of these people got their 15 minutes and then some up to six months of fame pushing this. They love every second they are in the spotlight. Not every theory is valid or reasonable, but if they can create a lot of doubt nothing that is real is ‘legitimate’ anyone. [There are people today that believe the earth is flat and that the U.S. government have taken great pains to fabricate it’s round.]
What these controversies allude to is that he, a senator and his wife a counsel of a hospital managed to ‘somehow’ pull the wool over the eyes of some of the most powerful and influential political machine in existence currently. These theorists will have you believe that is possible. That is not possible no matter how much money you have. Obama did not create the financial meltdown that put him into the lead in September.
Yeah, like this was done manipulated from some outside source, it couldn’t because this powerful political machine as seen with Atwater, digs up every scandal. Any little thing gets turned around and used to sling mud and create doubt. Hart and Edwards experienced it as well as Dukakis.
Atwater was a genius in creating spin so this powerful machine would not let this go without creating a powerful spin on it. In fact, I wonder if perhaps they set this in motion and it failed during the campaign.
How about the reason Obama actually succeeded was that people were jaded on a president and a party that sent soldiers to war over that changed reasons and never supplied armory, to a system that ignored or turned a blind eye to the warnings of a financial meltdown, and became deaf to the pleas of many that are uninsured while executives increasingly made 300% more than their lowest entry workers.
No matter what Obama’s campaign or staff does, it will be disputed and questioned. Why is it that a Black man runs for president, every single thing is questioned and slanted. His father is from Kenya, he didn’t return while dating or married, but now, it’s suspect he returned with a pregnant wife and had a baby there and then whisked them back to the U.S. while the baby was only days old.
Then, while Obama’s grandmother is dying, conspiracy theorists claim the only reason he goes back to Hawaii is to doctor his birth certificate using this as a ruse. Excuse me, there were many journalists and photographers watching his every movement and who he made contact with, how in the world could he have done this without the world knowing?
He could not even grieve the impending death of his grandmother without some people using it as a way to rob him of that human trait of love and compassion trying to make him as cold, manipulative and calculating monsters as them.
The mother had full parental custody of the child (Obama) growing up, not, the father. The father laid no claims on the child after the mother and father divorced. The state of Hawaii verified and authenticated the certificate. A statement was issued regarding its authenticity, yet theorists will deny that it’s valid.
To the one guy,
I have American Indian, I also have Irish and Afro-American ‘blood’. If your parents came over from Europe, are you really ‘full-blooded’? If your a first generation, according to this interpretation of the law, you are not ‘natural born’.
I have native American, slave and immigrant (third generation), so I am natural born.
And, lastly, it’s what goes around that comes around, slavery was imposed for economic reasons, cheap labor for the landowners to make riches. Now, we have rich executives that used cheap labor wherever they can find it to enrich their pockets. That has nothing to do with being ‘colored’, it has to do with the ability to cut down wages and increase their coffers because they can.
Many if not all the ‘White’ CEOs of failed and or struggling major companies AIG, GM, Lehman Brothers, Bear Sterns, Walmu, earned over $30 million dollars. BP oil and another oil company earned over 50-100$ million dollars.
Yeah, that’s Black power, alright, when it hits the White middleclass, the stupid blame the lower classes and minorities, while the upper class Whites generate the rumors and the friction while they continue to get richer. What comes around, goes around, sooner or later something will fall, the rich stepped over the lower classes until the products THEY created did them in.
501
I don’t know about others..but for me personally it’s not about race. I would have easily voted for Colin Powell. Or if Condoleeza Rice ever ran, she’d get my vote.
This has to do everything with Barack Obama’s citizenship at birth..the very moment he was born. To be a natural born citizen able to run for the presidency..you had to have 2 American Citizen parents at the time of your birth. He only had one. It’s in the United States Constitution. Article II Paragraph 5.
Folks, the issue is not only whether Obama is eligible, but also, did he deliberately mislead the US electorate by misrepresenting himself? The fraud implications (whether he is sworn in or not) are mind-boggling, and this is what I would expect of a Chicago politician!
I think it’s hilarious that all the Obama supporters are saying that this has to be dropped and we all need to come together for the sake of the nation, yet for the past 8 years they have seethed a morbid and near fanatical hatred for Bush and his “stolen” elections. Everything his supporters have said over the past month has been the polar opposite of what they’ve done to (yes, done to) President Bush for nearly 6 years. Why do we all need to come together and support “our” President now? What makes Obama anymore “our” President than Bush? Oh, wait, I know, because Obama actually won the election, right?
I’ll be 100% fair, I’ll show Obama the exact same level of support you Obama worshippers have shown Bush for the past 8 years…scary, huh?
If it was only a matter of the COLB (Certificate of Live Birth} that would be one thing. But why are Obama’s: Long Form Notarized Birth Certificate(shows hospital, delivering Dr’s Name, ect),never produced,
Obama/Dunham marriage license — Not released
Soetoro/Dunham marriage license — Not released
Soetoro adoption records — Not released
Fransiskus Assisi School School application — Released
Punahou School records — Not released
Selective Service Registration — Released – (authenticity questionable)
Occidental College records — Not released
Passport (Pakistan) — Not released
Columbia College records — Not released
Columbia thesis — Not released
Harvard College records — Not released
Harvard Law Review articles — None (maybe 1, Not Signed)
Baptism certificate — None
Medical records — Not released
Illinois State Senate records — None (Locked up to prohibit public
view)
Illinois State Senate schedule — Lost (All other Illinois state
senators’ records are intact)
Law practice client list — Not released
University of Chicago scholarly articles — None
ALL “not released or unavailable”? Why? I’m willing to give the man every benefit of the doubt, but why the bleep is ALL this stuff missing?????
Sombody needs to come up with plausible reason that all this stuff is somehow unobtainable……go ahead, Google the heck out of this laundry list…..and PLEASE show us Something!!
Ok Alan, here’s your chance to show that you are a force to be reckoned with. For the whole country to be brickwalled like this isn’t right. Someone has to drag this guy up and make him stand and deliver or get lost.
http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/judiciary/hju67306.000/hju67306_0.htm#0
This is a long but must read!!!!! Important!!! They knew as far back as 2000 about obama.
OBAMA was born here: (13th august 1961 Honolulu Advertiser Edition, Hawai)
http://wikileaks.org/leak/obama-1961-birth-an…
As a white man from georgia,
who has been voting REpublican for 75 years, I have never witnessed
a situation where a candidate has to show his certificate of birth.(Presidents
Hoover, Jefferson both parents were not born in USA ). What is wrong with OBAMA situation. You may say i am too old. However, I think it is a racial issue going on here. If my party won the elections, nobody will be talking about Mccain should show his birth certificate. In any case take time
to read the constitution located in http://www.supremecourtus.gov/ . It does not give a reader the definition of ‘Natural born’. I suspect that most of above contributors have not read the constitution. Clearly any legal mind will tell you the term ‘Naturally born’ is open various interpretation. DoNofrio case says
Natural born means both parents must be born in USA. Donofrio definition of ‘USA natural born’ IS NOT SPELLED OUT IN THE CONSTIUTION. THEREFORE HIS CASE WILL BE THROWN OUT, period.
My definition of ‘Naturally born’ could be in a DNA delineage, in which case nobody will qualify, because this land of made of immigrants from different parts of planet earth (including native indians, who immigrate from some where else).
AS TO MR OBAMA, YOU CANNOT ASK A CHILD TO PROVE WHERE HE WAS BORN. YOU CAN ONLY RELY ON WHAT OTHER PEOPLE SAY. WOmen can give birth in hospitals, some do at home without any midwife witness (draw your own conclusions). In any case OBAMA birth was advertized in Honolulu new paper
on 12th August 1961, 8 days after he was born (4th August 1961). It is clear.
NO DOUBT about. OBAMA WAS BORN IS USA
(HAWAII, HONOLULU, clearly printed in that local newpaper edition in 1961).
I DID NOT VOTE FOR OBAMA, However this man, is of GREAT INTELLECT who will fix up our country problems. MY PARTY (REPULICAN) delivers a disastrous performance over the last eight years under an intellectually ineffectual GUY.
LOOK AT WHAT A MAN CAN DO, NOT AT HIS COLOUR OF SKIN. NOW MY PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY PAYING SOME BLACKLEADERS (Clarence thomas, supreme court, alan keyes and others) to create this mess. PLEASE STOP. IN MY 95 years, I have seen my people misuse, mistreat blacks, native indians,
THIS IS THE CHANCE TO BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER to work for our COUNTRY.
I WILL ALWAYS VOTE REPUBLICAN, BUT REPUBLICANS AND OTHERS MUST RESPECT THE WILL OF MAJORITY (over 7000000 people spoke clearly in favour of trying again the democrate governing philosophy.).
We are in the 21st century. MR OBAMA DOES NOT HAVE SHOW HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE. WHERE WILL YOU STOP, IT WILL NOT PROVE ANYTHING. ANY USA birth certificate, however forensically tested will ONLY TELL YOU THAT 99.9999 % correct. BUT IT IS NOT 100
We do not live in 1800’s. We are in the 21st century. IF you are a citizen
(it does matter how you get your citizenship), and if you are able to convine the american constituents that you can serve faithfully the people of USA, then you should be given a chance.
Hawaii officials must be in on the scam as well as Governor Linda Lingle of Hawaii, a Repulican and McCain supporter is in on the Obama scan. Oh what web the idiots weave! Tell me how many more court cases need to thrown out for the dummies to end their inane conspiracy theory.
Please send more money to Berg, Martin, Donofrio as they need to take a European vacation so need more suckers to scam!
If he has nothing to hide why not show his so called vault copy of his birth certificate? The blacks that voted for him would not care if he was a martian, as long as the welfare and crack checks sere still delivered. I think he too much to hide and if it causes a revolution then so be it. It might trim down the welfare rolls.
“If he has nothing to hide why not show his so called vault copy of his birth certificate?”
are you numb, he can’t do this, try getting your vault copy, idiot!
did you know that Governor Linda Lingle of Hawaii is a Republican and supported McCain, is she in on the scam? So Honolulu papers use time machines to print announcements in 1961. Gej Jones, Gen Shinseki, Rice, Powell, McCain and even Bush who swore transition help is in on the scam and so is the Supreme Court that’s been dismissing these cases, maybe you should rethink your idiotic position!
To 501venus,
The problem with this whole issue is not that Obama is Black, which is not entirely true either. His is half white and half black. The issue is not racism either. As I see it the issue is a Constitutional question, which must be clearly answered.
If Obama had clearly answered the question of his citizenship then none of these lawsuits would have been filed. That is the whole crux of the problem isn’t it. Here are the issues (Hopefully in a way they you can understand)
1. Barack Obama has never actually proven his citizenship. A Certificate of Live Birth is not a birth certificate.
2. Even if Obama was born in Hawaii his mother relinquished his natural born status when she married an Indonesian Citizen and moved to Jakarta.
3. In order for Obama to attend school in Jakarta he had to have been an Indonesian Citizen. (Dual citizenship was not allowed in Indonesia at the time)
4. When he returned to the US he must have reapplied for citizenship. There is no record in the US State Department of this happening. If there is, it hasn’t been released.
5. It does not appear that he did that because he traveled to Pakistan during a period when US Citizens were restricted from traveling to Pakistan.
6. Also he will not release vital records from the colleges and universities he attended, which would identify further his citizenship.
7. Finally, (the most important was saved for last) We the People demand to know the truth. It is not that difficult to provide a single piece of paper to verify this. His constant refusal to do so is a clear indication that he is hiding something. Think about it. If you were asked by a prospective employer to provide a birth certificate, which you give a COLB, and they ask you to provide the actual birth certificate, would you require the employer to sue you for that simple document? Maybe you would if you really wanted the job and didn’t actually have one. They you might postpone the truth as long as possible.
Maybe I am only fooling myself to thing that a liberal such as yourself would be interested in facts and truth, I mean for the past two years you all (Liberals) gave Obama a free pass on any issue that came up.
The only thing remarkable about all these lawsuits is how they have all gone down in flames.
There is no issue here. Move on.
The Supreme Court will never hear any case involving his citizenship.
If he is found not to be a natural born and denied the presidency than massive riots will occur in our cities.The court will always find a legal excuse not to hear any such case.
The real problem is the Supreme Court.
I propose the following scenario.
Someone from vital statistics leaks information
that Obama has no birth certificate on record and is either charged with a felony or fired.Cae then goes to the Supreme Court.The court then denies the case because the firing was based on policy and
not on the actual document.
The sad part would be that the case would deny someone from defending the constitution.
Unfortunately, I believe they will probably toss it out by shooting the messenger probably on some procedural or wording grounds. “brian” unlike nearly all other lawsuits this one has legal standing so that’s all they can do.
They can’t possibly consider the claims of the lawsuit because if they did Obama would be sunk. Questions would start being asked. Evidence (or a lack of evidence — no evidence) would start being presented.
The fake “Certificate of Live Birth” alone begs for questions. This can never be mentioned.
BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA is intentionally trying to perpetrate the biggest fraud in American history. He knows it & we know it. He will be caught, it is only a matter of time. If he takes the oath on Jan. 20, 08……it will not be valid. Obama will be known as a Usurper. May God have mercy on his soul, for committing such horrible crimes against The Constitution & humanity.
He now refuses to produce the origional CLB which was scanned for the three websites. How can a document posted to public websites now be considered private?
Barack Obama should have been honest with Americans. He has just opened the door for every person in society to question his authority.
On December 15, 2008, the Electoral College convened and officially elected Obama as the 44th president of the U.S.
Electoral College votes:
Obama: 365
McCain: 173
When he takes the oath, it will be the first official crime as President and most likely will get away with it. Then you have to ask yourself, what other breaches of the Constitution will be next. How many more laws will be broken by Obama and the Supremes? Actually none as the laws will invalidated for the sake of CHANGE.
All you head-in-the-sand B.O. voters: If everyone else must prove citizenship, why not Barry?
The problem with finding his birth certificate is that it doesn’t exist in the U.S. Kenyan ambassador admits Obama’s birthplace in Kenya is a national attraction. His paternal grandmother has said she was present in Mombasa for his birth.
Too many questions and only shadows, lies, deception and deflection. This man is an empty suit.
The images and photos alleged to be copies of Obama’s Certification of Live Birth (COLB) are all bogus, and both Obama and Factcheck are guilty of posting a false identification document on the Internet.
Even in the COLB were real, which it’s not, an image is not proof of anything, and the COLB cannot be used to determine natural-born status.
Here we are on December 28th, and Obama has been “elected” by the electors.
I have read nearly every post here, and it seems very apparent that the liberals think this is no big deal, the conservatives want to see proof, and many are ready to bash or otherwise insult those who do not agree with them. Many of those bashers apparently have not done ANY research whatsoever.
The reality of this situation is this: If Obama is determined ineligible for the presidency, it does not mean that McCain gets the job. On the same token, it does not indicate that Biden will get the job either.
This leaves us with a constitutional crisis. If Obama is not eligible, and takes office in January, his decisions as “president” will not be valid. Secondly, there does not appear to be any provisions in our constitution that specify the chain of events that would follow this type of situation.
I believe that if Obama is determined NOT eligible, the only reasonable solution would be a re-election with qualified candidates. This would ensure each Americans right to choose the QUALIFIED candidate that they would like as commander in chief.
Obama could lay all this BS to rest by providing documents to prove his eligibility. The lack of presentation only leads to the perception of guilt. Many Americans feel that he is hiding something.
The citizens of this country should willingly stand behind the president of this nation and work together for a common good. If the president is perceived as a criminal, how can anyone be expected to stand behind them?
It seems to me that the courts, as well as the Obama staff, are dragging their feet in this matter. If Obama is inaugurated in January, I believe it will be the end of any legal proceedings, and our trusted government will find a way to make the whole “problem” disappear. After all, I think that’s what our government does best.
In response to the people who were asking why these lawsuits had not been presented before, the answer is, they were. They were not blogged as heavily as they are now, and the mainstream media has chosen not to discuss it, of course.
Others have stated that a determination of ineligibility would result in riots, which could be possible. But, do you really believe that others will not “hit the streets” if this matter is NOT resolved? Any decision that is made is obviously not going to make everyone happy.
Personally, anyone who riots is a complete idiot. If the rioters destroy private property, then they are attacking their friends and neighbors, mainly people who are not directly linked to the issue they are angry about. If they destroy public property, then they are only destroying what their hard earned tax dollars have payed for. Pretty stupid either way.
Others have blogged that McCain was not eligible, but the proof that was asked from him was supplied immediately, and verified. Since has has not won the election, it is pretty much a non-issue at this point anyway.
Your child could be born in Greenland, but you could place an announcement in the papers in Cincinnati, OH. It doesn’t mean your child was born there, it only means that the birth was announced there.
Also, for those who have claimed that a COLB is good enough to get a drivers license, a passport, or whatever, the reality is that you don’t have to be a “natural born citizen” to have your passport, drivers license, or etc., so the COLB is fine for that. The issue with the presidency goes much farther.
The person that implied that you can’t get a vault copy of a birth certificate, how does that explain why I have one? It was no problem.
If Obama is truly eligible for the position, I will gladly stand behind him and call him my president, and honor the majority wished of the American public, but if he is not eligible, or fails to prove otherwise, how can I be expected to acknowledge, trust, respect, or obey any part of him or his policy?
This issue must be resolved by having the birth certificate in the Hawaii vault inspected and authenticated. Most of us have multiple copies of our birth certificates that we have to present to obtain a driver license, register for school, etc. What makes Obama different than us???? The US Supreme Court has to resolve this issue with action in demending that this birth certificate be authentic and that it shows legal citizenship to become president, and not avoidance.
I am a Democrat. I VOTED FOR Obama. HOWEVER, that does not mean I dont want the TRUTH. All the rabid Obama supporters who apparently cant stomach the idea of their Golden Boy being dethroned are showing me far more than any “Neocon” or “conspiracy theorist” could by their foaming at the mouth over attempts to get at the TRUTH.
This is NOT about a personality, it is about the integrity of the Constitution, the backbone of our country. As far as Im concerned, Obama could have (and SHOULD have) responded to this LONG AGO. And NO, I dont believe the document posted by him is genuine. Neither do I subscribe to factcheck.org or snopes.com’s assertions to its authenticity. There is enough of a doubt regarding this man’s citizenship (and his mother’s) that as a Democrat, and as an AMERICAN, I want it thoroughly investigated and settled. By REAL people, not some online forum.
I found this:
http://www.investigatingobama.blogspot.com/
Well I am a registered Democrate living in NJ however I never vote the party line. I am NOT a lemming and I was plenty appalled about the Obama cult craze from the beginning. I was never enthused about him because of his muslim heritage and his non-experience. I read both his books and in them he claimed not once but many times how he was raised as a muslim, switched back to his muslim name when her returned from Indonesia after his mother divorced yet another foreign man she had lived with. His mother, although a white woman, was a loose goose when it came to being a bleeding heart liberal – she wore her liberalism on her vagina as did her mother, a woman whom Obama describes as “a racist”. Nice work, Barry for a guy who was raised by that racist and more – like your old pastor Rev Wright the racist.
What I’m saying here is that the US constitution is above race and above liars. Obama was appointed by unseen people and a country of misinformed people who “fell in love with Obama throught the internet” which his campaign used with all of it’s magic marketing tools abound. So my opinion no matter how racist it may sound to you stands – if Obama is a stinking liar and he is NOT A US CITIZEN then he must be turned away. But does that mean we are stuck with PRESIDENT BIDEN or PRESIDENT MCCAIN? If it is McCain who is the new winner – imagine his dismay or better yet his heart attack upon hearing the news – where would that leave us? Oh yeah – PALIN – President Palin – LOL – oh yeah – viva la revolution!
If Obama is really the “candidate of change” all he needs to do is to show his long form of his
birth certificate, showing the Doctors name, hospital, etc where he was born. Maybe being the “candidate of change” means he does not have to do as all the other presidents before him have done and that is to validate that he is in fact a US Citizen, natural born. He also should
provide the public with his college transcripts which also would show what he claimed as
his citizenship when he registered for college. I don’t know why he does not end the discussion on his qualifications of citizenship, whether natural born or not. Seems strange that in order to get different benefits, jobs, etc, WE all have to provide VALID verification of our status as citizen, yet Obama getting the highest job in the US, let alone the world, does not have to verify his status.
Am I looking at this in the wrong way????
Obama’s mother was a US citizen but was 18, the father was not. The child can be a US citizen regardless where he’s born if both parents are citizens, but when one parent is a citizen, the parent must be over 16 and a citizen for 5 of the last 10 years…because she was 18 when she had him, SHE WASN’T!!!!DO THE MATH. She was only a citizen for 2 years before she had him at 18…He needs more proof and so did the DNC. Why would Obama spend over $500,000 in attorney fees when all he had to do was produce a $15 Document…that Hawaii birth certificate is not a live birth…it list not essentials like hospital, doctor, etc…Obama was not even qualified to be a senator…this shows that the lack of integrity is not only on Wallstreet but in our DNC!! (And the RNC is too scared to point out the obvious, they have NO BACKBONE!)
msg to Catherine@ post#269: I am anything but a Lemming, Obviously, or I wouldnt be insisting on TRUTH here. Im smart enough NOT to buy into the alarmist “HE’S A MUSLIM crapola that the right wing wackos (which you sound like by the way) tried to use against him to NO EFFECT. PUH LEEZ. Your slurs against Obama’s mother, your derogatory comments about “liberals” and the entire tone of your post just SHRIEKS Right-wing sour grapes.
Halloween is long over lady, take off your costume and quit passing yourself off as a “Democrate” (<– oh brother!) when even a blind man in a blackout could see you’re anything but.
Does anyone know the current status of the Alan Keyes lawsuit?
Congress represents the people. The people spoke and they support Obama. The people want Obama to be the president.
On November 4, 2008, Obama won the election by a landslide.
The electors of the Electoral College are sworn to uphold the U.S. Constitution and that is exactly what they did.
On December 15, 2008, the Electoral College convened and officially elected Obama as the 44th president of the U.S.
Electoral College votes:
Obama: 365
McCain: 173
Congress answers to the people and the people support Obama.
In this country, we believe that everyone is innocent until proven guilty. If you guys cherish this country’s laws and values so much, you should assume Obama is innocent until you prove him guilty.
Some people are saying this is the biggest fraud in U.S. history and that Obama’s inauguration will be illegal. Saying that is assuming Obama is guilty. But it has not been proven that Obama is not a natural born citizen. Therefore, by saying things like that, you guys are hypocrites.
You need to treat Obama as innocent until proven guilty.
Stop spreading lies. Obama showed his birth certificate to all government officials involved.
Obama’s birth certificate was posted online and it is real. The allegations that the birth certificate is a forgery have been disproven.
For proof, copy and paste this link to the address bar: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as “supporting documents” to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.
The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health confirmed Oct. 31 that Obama was born in Honolulu.
The Associated Press quoted Chiyome Fukino as saying that both she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama’s original birth certificate.
Fukino said she has “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.”
On January 8, 20009, the joint session of Congress officially counted and certified the Electoral College votes.
Obama: 365
McCain: 173
Everyone gave Obama and Biden a standing ovation.
No objections were made.
Cheney adjourned the joint session of Congress.
Obama is now officially the President-Elect of the United States.
It is your patriotic duty to support him.
If it is our “patriotic duty” to support an illegitimate Manchurian candidate, then why was it not the “patriotic duty” of people to support Bush even before he was inaugurated for both terms?
Why do we all have to support Obama when the very same people who are calling for this never supported Bush?
It is our patriotic duty to support our country and constitution, something I fear Obama will not do from the many comments he made prior to and during his candidacy.
Alan Keyes actually tried to stop Obama. What a loser. He is a disgrace. That loser lost all chances to be president.
Obama is the president of the United States. There is nothing you loser racists on this site can do about it.
Since when is FactCheck.org an official department of the US Government? Let’s not forget that the credibility of FactCheck.org in anything related to Obama is suspect since FactCheck.org is owned by the Annenberg foundation and Obama, along with his terrorist buddy Ayers, was a board member for them in Chicago.
Even if Obama was born in Hawaii he was adopted by his step-father and registered in school in Indonesia. His registration from that school shows him as Name:Barry Soetoro, Citizenship:Indonesian, Religion:Islam. That’s a fact. It’s also a fact that the US does not recognize dual-citizenship with countries that do not recognize dual-citizenship with us. Indonesia is one of those countries that does not so in order for him to have been given Indonesian citizenship he would have lost his US citizenship. When he eventually returned to the US he could have gone through the process to get his US Citizenship back but he would have been considered a naturalized citizen. There is no record of his having done this. There is also the question of Obama’s 1981 trip to Pakistan during a period that travel there was banned for US citizens. However he could have entered with no problems with his Indonesian passport, which he had, since he was and is an Indonesian citizen. He claims to have been born in one hospital, his sister says another, and his Grandma who recalls being in the room at his birth in Kenya. Obama has pulled off the biggest fraud in history.
Dear Alan:
Given your recent comments, shown on MSNBC’s “Countdown,” are you still upset over rushing to Illinois to be a carpetbag candidate yet was thrashed by Obama? You still question his citizenship, what part of “Certification of Live Birth” in Hawaii do you not understand? It is a birth certificate and showed he was born in Hawaii!
everybody, please see “strunk v us department of homeland security amended”-(FOIA) it says that obamas FORGEIN birth certificate on file at US embassy KENYA..according to obama he was born in hawaii. why does dept. of homeland security say that his FORGEIN birth certificate on file at US embassy KENYA?– obama LIED to america, and posted a hawaii birth certificate online– obama is a fraud, lier, crook,and no telling what else..obama and pelosi should be held on the charges of TREASON..there is a illegal president in office, and everything he does will be illegal and void by law.. we DO NOT have a 44 pres in office, just a FOREIGN con man..
I don’t care whether or not Obama is impeached. I just want him and his family OUT OF THE US!!
Obviously born and bread to impersonate an American, whatever, whoever is behind this man and his intentions are very dark … no pun intended. Their plans are well thought out and reach far into the future. Scares the hell out of me!!
As a retired Immigration Officer I can tell you that if this guy was not born in Hawaii as he claims,he is actually an “illegal alien”, as he did not comply with the laws at the time to derive citizenship from his mother. Those sealed records in Hawaii and his college records need to be forced open so that the American people know the truth. This coverup is a disgrace and is bordering on treason.
God Bless you Mr. Keyes, I wanted you for President over George W. Bush years ago. I hope you win this lawsuit for the sake of America and all the innocent souls that are dying under this government of Baby Killers. Today it is the babies tomorrow it is the elderly, and next?
Please read Bill C. 3/5/09 it looks like is credentials as a retired Immigation Officer could help prove your lawsuit.
for those of you who say that it does not matter whether or not obama was actually born in the US, try reading up on your constitution. according to our constitution, the very document that this country was founded on, says that a person must meet the requirements to even run for president. it does not matter whether this person is black, white, yellow or even purple, what DOES matter is whether or not they qualify according to our constitution. if he does not meet those requirements, then it is the right of the people to dismiss him from office. when sept. 11th happened, people were outraged that terrorist would do that to the US. people came together and wanted the US to stand up for itself and kick some terrorist butt. but then yet when it comes to our commander in chief, the one that is suppose to help protect this country, people are so ready to hand over that position to just about anyone. why is that? what happened to standing up for our constitution and what is written in it? if he was born here, then he should not have a problem proving it. it is very obvious that he is hiding something. is that the kind of commander in chief we want running this country? someone who is willing to lie to the American people? if people stand by and let this happen, then whats next? what other rights in our constitution are you willing to give up because of this man? if the people do not stand up for our constitution now, we are telling our government that we do not care about what this country was found on. for the ones saying that obama was born here and his mother was a citizen, DO YOUR HOMEWORK FIRST BEFORE RESPONDING. his mother was not an American citizen, IF she was out of the country due to her age. If she was here in the US when she gave birth, then it should be very easy for obama to prove that by producing the REAL document. it has already been proving that the document that showed up on his website, was a fake. he is showing this country that he is hiding something and is proving that day after day by hiring attorneys to keep his records private. instead of running and hiding, he should get his tail out from between his legs, man up and prove who he is. PLAIN AND SIMPLE!
I do not understand why this was overlooked and not pursued before he was elected. His grandmother said he was born in Kenya. Why shouldn’t we as Americans be able to see for ourselves. I know the Governor of Hawaii said she sealed the birth certificate and let’s remember she is a democrat. I am outraged that this man gets away with so much and also people like his Secretary of Treasury can violate the law and get away with it. If I had owed that kind of money, I would be in jail now, not in a powerful position in the government.
Please let’s get this settled and let the American people know for sure and see it for ourselves. We have a right.
Thanks,
Claire Stancik
Well… If this holds water, Biden doesn’t exactly make me feel comfortable as president of the U.S. either. We are screwed either way. Doubtful there is much to this story. If so, it would have been a huge deal during the campaign process as someone would have figured this out much earlier. I think they are playing on people’s emotions.
so what’s the STATUS here please?…what happens next????
Congratulations to the Honorable Alan Keyes and Reverend Drake for standing up for the US Constitution. The sheer vilification and poisonous smears by the Democrats and liberals demonstrates their fear and hypocritical lack of tolerance for any opposing views.
My prayers are with you.
Sincerely,
Jackie Yantis
In spite of all of the controversy, Mr. Keyes was just exhausting most if not all of the normal procedures for any candidate who has any reasonable doubt towards an opponent. It is not emotional as much as it is protocol. Mr. Keyes and his running mate would have made a more acceptable President if they had the support of the so called “Moral Majority” in this nation.
This man makes great sense and he should have been elected to office instead of the idiots that are up there now. I want to thank Mr. Keyes for standing up and not being afraid to say exactly what Mr. Obama is to this country! Mr. Keyes run again for President – I will vote for you!
If it were proven that obama is not eligible to hold the office, Biden would not be next in line nor pelosi either. Since obama could not legally name a VP snce he was not qualified to do so. The only option would be to call a special election and then try obama for treason.
Great Article. Thanks for the info. Does anyone know where I can find a Judicial Subpoena form?
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