Hillary Clinton on CNN Says Any Strong Third Party Presidential Candidate is a Tool of Putin

Posted on by October 18, 2019

On October 18, Hillary Clinton said in a podcast that the Russians are grooming someone to be a third party presidential candidate, and she also said that Jill Stein (Green Party presidential nominee in 2012 and 2016) was a tool of the Russians. See this story.

Tulsi Gabbard, whom Clinton did not name, has already said that she will not be a presidential candidate in the general election (unless she gets the Democratic nomination, of course, which is considered impossible).

Comments

Hillary Clinton on CNN Says Any Strong Third Party Presidential Candidate is a Tool of Putin — 102 Comments

  2. @ Bob:

    I’m afraid it’s no joke. Whether Tulsi is the “threat” or not, it is certain that establishment Democrats are going to label any and all serious third party candidates as “Russian assets” and to everything to suppress them, from ballot access challenges, to rigorous campaign finance enforcement, to debate and media exclusion.

  4. If Hillary Clinton wanted to solve the problem she perceives, she should publicize ranked choice voting and urge everyone to help implement it in more states. We already have it for president in Maine.

  5. One more POWERMAD RED communist NUTCASE —

    one time NUTCASE occupant of the White House

    with those vast right wing conspiracies — behind every bush and tree.

    Does the SENILE MORON also include the LP as being a Russian asset ???

    She is one more brain dead STUPID MORON – unable to detect the minority rule gerrymander ROT and UNEQUAL ballot access ROT in the USA and ALL State monarch/oligarch regimes.

    —
    PR and AppV and TOTSOP

  6. Jill Stein did attend some major event in Russia featuring Comrade Putin. Jill Stein sat next to Comrade Michael Flynn, later the National Security Advisor Pro Tem to the incoming Trump administration.

    No doubt Democrats will attack any third party candidate as a Russian asset, and in most cases they will be wrong or even staing a known mistruth. But in Jill Stein’s case, her softness toward the Putin administration is eerily similar to the attitude of Comrade Trump.

  7. How many comrades has Putin killed so far — since 1999 — after the drunk moron Yeltsin gave Putin POWER ???

    What did the MORON HACK wannabee TYRANT H. Clinton do to get REAL Democracy into Russia in 1993-2000 when she was lurking in the White House attic, basement, etc. ???

  8. David Plouffe in his summary said it was Gabbard that Clinton was refering to. It sounded to me that he was chuckling a bit.

  9. Does Hillary really think all strong third-party candidates are Russian assets, or just the ones who are most likely to draw away votes from the Democratic candidate? If a Republican announced a third-party run against Trump, I suspect that Hillary would approve of that.

  10. Hillary and her entourage live in fantasy-land. Throw a bucket of water on her and she’ll melt into a puddle of slime.

  11. Hillary accuses everyone that she hates of being “a Russian agent.” Just like how Hitler accused everyone that he hated of being “a Jew.” It is the same totalitarian mindset. Thankfully she lost in 2008 and 2016.

  12. DW — Are Dorothy and Toto of Wizard of Oz still around ???

    Water DOOOOM for the typecast Wicked Witch !!!

    Freedom for the terrorized Munchkins !!!

  14. The only “tool” here is Hillary Clinton.

    Everyone keep in mind that the 2016 Libertarian Party presidential ticket of Gary Johnson and Bill Weld said that Hillary Clinton is “a wonderful public servant,” which illustrates the pathetic state of the Libertarian Party.

  17. “Gentle hands need to lead her to a quiet place.”- Michael Skaggs

    The White House?

  18. Andy. Weld was speaking for himself based on his 40 year friendship with Hillary Clinton. Weld has left the Libertarian party. Any comments he has made have nothing to do with the Libertarian party. Almost 600,000 registered Libertarian voters, (not counting States that do not register by party) and ballot access in more States then at comparable times before an election year is hardly panther. It is pretty damn good.

  22. Hillary Clinton is not alone in disliking third parties. Let us not lay the problem at her doorstep.

  24. Robert, Gary Johnson also gushed over how “wonderful” Hillary Clinton is. The fact that Bill Weld thinks that Hillary is wonderful, and that he vouches for her, does not speak well of him. This is quite relevant to the Libertarian Party, because just 3 years ago, Johnson/Weld was the party’s presidential ticket, and up until Weld left the LP several months ago, he was still being booked as a convention speaker, and being taken seriously as a contender for the LP’s 2020 presidential nomination. Also, there are still Bill Weld supporters in the LP (such as yourself), and some of the Bill Weld supporters in the LP occupy positions of influence in tbe party (such as they hold seats on committees, etc…), which is scary. There is something wrong with anyone who thinks Bill Weld is really a libertarian (I actually think a lot of the Bill Weld supporters in the LP know that he’s not a libertarian, they just lie and say that he is bexause they are subversive elements themselves).

  26. HRC: anyone who disagrees with me is a Russian asset!
    Andy: “The only “tool” here is Hillary Clinton.”
    *talking about people he disagrees with in the LP*
    Andy: “they are subversive elements themselves”

  27. Stock is a fake libertarian. We have established that many times. He would vote for Chafee or even John Kasich if they win the LP nomination.

    Hillary Clinton needs to just go away.

  28. Brandon, Hillary Clinton and Bill Weld are both part of the ruling establishment. Bill Weld is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, and Hillary Clinton has admitted that she takes marching orders from the Council on Foreign Relations. Weld is a long time crony of Robert Mueller, the Bush family, and Mitt Romney. Hillary Clinton has attended Bilderberg Group meetings. They are both about as establishment as you can get.

    I have no such affiliations, and I am merely suggesting that the Libertarian Party ought to run people for office who are actually libertarians, instead of running phony establishment shills like Bill Weld.

  30. “Hillary Clinton has admitted that she takes marching orders from the Council on Foreign Relations.” please post a primary source. I hate her as much as anyone but this just sounds like a conspiracy theory

  31. I am not 100% sold on Justin Amash as an LP presidential candidate for 2020, but he would be better than anyone who has been on the last three LP presidential tickets.

  32. The last time around, with only two viable choices — the reality — I would have preferred Hillary over Trump. The Electoral College had other ideas.

    I think that Hillary is overreacting, but I also think that a leftwing third-party candidacy would help reelect Trump.

  33. 2020 will be the MOST important presidential election EVER! It is imperative that TRUMP be defeated/re-elected!

    Take your pick. It’s always the same old BS every election.

  34. “I am not 100% sold on Justin Amash as an LP presidential candidate for 2020, but he would be better than anyone who has been on the last three LP presidential tickets.” – Andy

    I would have to agree with you. Bob Barr, Wayne Root, Gary Johnson, Jim Gray and Bill Weld. 60% have returned to the GOP. Johnson would have been better off had he not run again in 2016. His “street cred” as a Libertarian would have been better IMHO.

  35. 2020 The highest percent of voters [aka LOOTERS] in the USA getting NET $$$ incomes from statist control freak regimes — ie highest percent of NET tax slaves ???

    LOOTER gangs-

    1. Govt officers/employees

    2. Govt welfarers [via *transfer payments*]

    3. Govt contracters

    4. Govt creditors [getting $$$ interest from moron loans to govts – being destroyed by inflation]

    A small part of each gang *may* have some private sector income – esp 3 and 4.

    About ZERO mention of above in ALL the Donkey Prez candidates shows by the MORON question folks –
    ALL part of the EVIL rotted to the core brainwashing *system*.

    By Nov 2020 – about $$$ 40 TRILLION in all govts in USA fixed debts —
    NOT including UN-financed coming govt $$$ liabilities.

    40,000,000,000,000 —- 4 and a mere unlucky 13 zeroes.

    MEANS ZERO to MONSTERS like H. Clinton — who has been a LOOTER for decades.

  36. Sorry Andy, but I’d rather take my chances with a big-name candidate instead of a dogmatic LP candidate with no name recognition and an inability to get more then half a million votes.

    Weld is gone from the LP, so he’s old news, though he was less destructive for the party then Bob Barr.
    GJ’s candidacy did much more good then harm with the gains in ballot access and mainstream attention from his candidacy and vote totals the LP got -regardless of how gaffe prone he was.

    Hopefully Amash jumps on board quick for next year.

  38. Cody, I would like to see the LP have a presidential ticket that has some name recognition and big (or at least relatively big) money behind it, but I do NOT want to see the party sell out principles in the name of trying to get candidates like this.

    I have mixed feeling on Justin Amash. He sounds good on paper in a lot of ways, and he certainly has a better record than Bob Barr, Gary Johnson, and Bill Weld, but I have some reservations as well, and I fear that he cluld turn out like me said in the post above from 10/20/19 at 11:36 AM, not to mention the optics problem of the LP looking like the home for cast off Republicans by running a Republican retread for the 4th presidential election in a row.

    I disagree that the Johnson campaigns did more good than harm. I say the opposite, because Johnson made the LP look like unprincipled goofballs. Some of the ballot access gains were due to changes in laws that made the requirements easier, and/or candidates running for other statewides offices. Sure, Johnson picked up a few states, but that could have happened with a different candidates. Jill Stein from the Green Party was essentially a nobody, yet she received over 1.4 million votes in 2016, and she was only on the ballot in 44 states plus DC. Even if Johnson got more votes than other contenders for the nomination would have received (which I think is debatable), I do not think it was worth it because he made the LP look like unprincipled goofballs, and his campaign failed to have any lasting impact in growing LP membership or in getting more people to adopt a strong libertarian philosophy.

  39. How many contacts has HC had with known / unknown RED communist folks [Russians, Chinese, etc.] – public / private [spies / agents / moles] since she was age 12 — esp. in her college years with BC ???

  41. Gary Johnson’s campaigns are what turned me into a big-L Libertarian after being a small-l libertarian for years. There are many more like me, including Larry Sharpe.

  42. I have no favorite right now. I want an actual libertarian. I ruled out the ex-Republicans, plus Kokesh since he ended up praising Weld.

    Brandon Lyon just admitted Gary Johnson made him less libertarian. That tells you how worthless his campaign was.

  43. Larry Sharpe said he first learned about libertarianism by reading a book by Robert Ringer. Yes, he first looked into the Libertarian Party after hearing Gary Johnson in 2012, but he already knew about libertarianism prior to that.

    I did not support Johnson in 2012, but I will say that his 2012 campaign was better than his 2016 campaign. I think there were 2 reasons Johnson 2012 sounded better than Johnson 2016, 1) Bill Weld (who Johnson wanted as his running mate) influenced Johnson to be even less libertarian than he already was (and Johnson was never really much of a libertarian to begin with/also, this does not absolve his 2012 running mate of Jim Gray, as Gray is only a softball moderate at best, and Gray actually stumped for Bill Weld), and 2) Johnson knew he was not going to run for President again after 2016, so he could let his “mask” slip off more and be more of his true less libertarian self in 2016 as compared to 2012, when he still needed to keep the act up more so he could have a second go around in 2016. If Johnson had pulled some of the stuff he did in 2016 in 2012, there probably would not have been a Johnson 2016, and he barely won the nomination in 2020.

  44. I do not think that Adam Kokesh really likes Bill Weld. I think Adam gave Weld a copy of his book, and Weld claimed that he was going to read it. Kokesh clearly has major differences with Bill Weld.

  45. For those confused,
    Big-L Libertarian = more libertarian
    little-l libertarian = votes in general election but puts no effort into helping elect Libertarians or build the party structure.
    Given certain people’s conspiracy theory laden arguments I’m glad some people are small-l and not infecting the party with their Alex Jones level of thinking

  46. Libertarians vs left / right control freak STATISTS [esp. the top elite STATISTS] and the muddled middle.

  47. I meant that Johnson barely won the nomination in 2016. It went two ballots, and he ended up with 55% of the vote, and this was after spending 10 times as much as all of the other candidates for the LP’s 2016 presidential nom8nation combined. He obviously is not running for the nomination in 2020.

  48. Big “L” Libertarian does not automatically make one more libertarian, or a more effective liberty activist, than a small “l” libertarian. Being a big “L” Libertarian just means that one officialy joined the Libertarian Party. One could officially join the Libertarian Party and be weak on principles, or not even really a libertarian at all, and there are plenty of big “L” Libertarians who are not effective activists at all.

  49. The problem with the Libertarian Party is that they have big shoes into which their own party members can hardly fit. The “big shoes” are the ballot access that they have in more states than any other third party. Consequently, rogue candidates from major parties now consider the LP a takeover target. This is not necessarily a bad thing, IMO, if it has positive consequential benefits. I consider the 10 states that Gary Jonson flipped in the 2016 election a consequential benefit. It’s fueling the movement for election reform in many places.

  50. The Libertarian party is not the “activist” wing of the libertarian movement, it is the political wing. Too often people confuse the two and think that all a political candidate needs to do is advocate a pure libertarian message, but it is much deeper than that. They need to connect with non-libertarian voters, get media coverage, develop party infrastructure, mobilize volunteers, and finally fundraise. This is why Johnson got more votes than Badnarik and Browne and why he was the better candidate.

  51. Activism can most certainly be political in nature, and if done right, running a political campaign can be among the best forms of activism. Ron Paul for President 2008 and 2012 did more to spread the message of liberty, and to create/inspire more libertarians, than anything else, and Ron Paul did this while running in the Republican Party.

  52. All Ron Paul did in 2008 and 2012 was perpetuate the myth that the Republican party is more for liberty than the Democrat party is. This DAMAGED the libertarian movement because it steered countless people toward a party that is anti-liberty. He wouldn’t even endorse Johnson in 2012.

  53. Johnson got more votes than Badnarik and Browne because of the more favorable circumstances he ran under, NOT because he was a better candidate, because he was not. Go back and watch the old videos from Browne and Badnarik, and read theur writings, and compare it to that of Gary Johnson. If one does this, I don’t see howanyone could claim Johnson was better. Johnson got more votes because;

    1) There was more disgust with the major party candidates when he ran;

    2) There were no higher profile/better funded minor party or independent candidates in the race, as in nobody like Ross Perot or Ralph Nader or Pat Buchanan to suck away attention and votes;

    3) Name recognition for the word libertarian, and for the Libertarian Party, had great increased by the time Gary Johnson came around, thanks in largest part to the Ron Paul campaigns in 2008 and 2012;

    4) The growth of the internet as a tool for reaching people, as in there were a heck of a lot morw people online in 2012 and 2016 when Johnson ran, as compared to when Browne and Badnarik ran.

    I have been involved in the Libertarian Party since 1996, and I can tell you that while it is true that less people knew who Harry Browne and Michael Badnarik were than Gary Johnson, the level of enthusiasm from the people who did know who they were was higher than the level of enthusiasm was for Johnson, and Browne and Badnaik did a much better job of getting people to adopt a hardcore libertarian ideology. The LP also had more dues paying members back then, and more people elected to public office.

    Sure, Johnson/Weld 2016 got the most votes for an LP ticket ever, but this was mostly due to the record level of disgust with the major party candidates, and with there having been no higher profile minor party or independent candidate in the race (no Perot or Nader or Buchanan or anyone like them). The closest minor party or independent competitor for Johnson/Weld was the Green Party’s Jill Stein, and she was only on the ballot in 44 states plus DC, yet Jill Stein revived over 1.4 million votes, which was the 2nd highest vote total for a Green Party presidential ticket ever, with only the higher profile Ralph Nader having received more for as a Green in 2000 (note that Nader ran as an independent in 2004 and 2008). The Constitution Party’s Darryl Castle only made the ballot in 24 states, which was the worst ballot access for a Constitution Party presidential ticket ever (the CP used to get on the ballot in the upper 30’s or lower 40’s number of states), yet Castle got over 203,000 votes, which is a record for the CP. Evan McMullin jumped in the race late, and only qualified for the ballot in 10 states, yet he received over 716,000 votes.

    So given these facts, what Johnson/Weld did in 2016 was really not that impressive. They basically picked up a lot of protest votes from people who did not like Clinton or Trump, and they were the only ticket on the ballot in all 50 states plus DC (and the majority of ballot access is handled by the LNC or the state parties, and the LP went into both 2012 and 2016 already having ballot access). Johnson/Weld were big failures when it came to spreading a libertarian message, and growing the Libertarian Party, and they actually damaged the libertarian brand by making the LP look like unprincipled goofballs.

    If you want to talk mobilizing volunteers, Ron Paul 2008 and 2012 blew Johnson/Weld 2016 away.

  54. Should read, “the L£ went into 2012 and 2016 already having ballot access in most states.”

  58. me, I do not think that there is any definitive way to prove whether or not small “l” libertarians are more libertarian on average than big “L” Libertarians, or vice versa.

  59. In my experience many small-l libertarians fall into 1 of 3 camps:
    1) voters who vote libertarian but aren’t that well versed in the philosophy
    2) Activists who advocate ardently for a majority of the platform but ignore or actively protest against other parts (for example, people that think the border needs to be closed until all of the welfare state is abolished which will never happen)
    3) People who fervently believe in all of their rights but when it comes to something that doesn’t affect them they’re all of sudden saying “Well, this is a nation of laws” – many alt-right people fall into this category

  60. I think Andy said it correctly. There is really NO way to know just how “libertarian” upper case or lower case “L’ (or “l”) folks really are. For one thing there is little agreement on just what libertarianism is. Some people say a libertarian purist must be pro-choice but others make a good case for the pro-life argument. Who’s to say? I sure don’t know. My litmus test is this… does the person want to make government smaller; end the wars; balance the budget; respect the Constitution and return to real free enterprise? Whether that is a libertarian or a constitutional conservative or whatever that person has my attention.

  61. Brandon, your experience must be pretty limited, because in my experience there about as many “types” of small “l” libertarians and there are big “L” Libertarians. Some small “l” libertarians used to be big “L” Libertarians, but they became disgruntled with the LP, So they let their membership expire. Some of these former big “L” Libertarians became non-voters, and some went the try to influence the Republican Party route.

  62. Brandon Lyons said: “All Ron Paul did in 2008 and 2012 was perpetuate the myth that the Republican party is more for liberty than the Democrat party is. This DAMAGED the libertarian movement because it steered countless people toward a party that is anti-liberty. He wouldn’t even endorse Johnson in 2012.”

    I agree that it is mostly a myth that Republicans are for more liberty than Democrats, as in while this may be true in some cases, there a plenty of other cases where Republicans were just as bad, and sometimes even worse, than Democrats. Having said this, to say that all that Ron Paul’s presidential runs accomplished was further perpetrating the myth that Republicans are the party of liberty as compared to Democrats, is not true at all. Ron Paul’s campaigns for President in the Republican Party did more to spread the message of liberty, and to create new libertarians, and to inspire old libertarian to get active again, than anything else. The Ron Paul r3VOLution had a huge impact, and I still run into people who talk about it, and who say they got inspired by Dr. Paul.

    Funny to see this from a Bill Weld fan, especially since Bill Weld is running for President in the Republican primaries right now. Do you see his campaign getting anywhere near the amount of support and passion that Ron Paul received from liberty lovers? Reality is that most libertarians do not give a rat’s behind about Bill Weld’s campaign. The vast majority of libertarians think that Bill Weld is a disgrace and a joke. Since you actually think that Bill Weld is a libertarian, or at least you claim to think that he’s really a libertarian, wouldn’t this mean that Bill Weld is now further perpetuating the myth that Republicans are more pro-liberty than Democrats?

    Ron Paul actually did sort of endorse Gary Johnson in 2012. He made some positive statements about him at the time, and I heard that he voted for him in the 2012 election. He did not endorse, or even sort of endorse, Johnson in 2016, and he did not vote for him either. I’d say this was for two reasons, 1) it was even more apparent in 2016 than it was in 2012 that Johnson is not really a libertarian, and 2) Johnson wanted, and received, Bill Weld as his running mate. There was no way in hell that Ron Paul was going to endorse, or even say anything good about, a ticket with Bill Weld on it. I heard that Ron Paul cast a write in vote for his son for President in 2016.

  68. Andy “I have been involved in the Libertarian Party since 1996, and I can tell you that while it is true that less people knew who Harry Browne and Michael Badnarik were than Gary Johnson, the level of enthusiasm from the people who did know who they were was higher than the level of enthusiasm was for Johnson, and Browne and Badnaik did a much better job of getting people to adopt a hardcore libertarian ideology. The LP also had more dues paying members back then..”

    Harry Browne got 100,000 fewer votes in 2000 than in 1996 with weaker 3rd party opposition (Nader and Buchanan rather than Perot.) Hell, Harry Browne wasn’t even getting the votes of registered Libertarians in many states. Seriously look it up. Alaska 2000 had 6,871 registered voters, Browne got 2,636 votes. Arizona 2000 had 12,576 registered voters, Browne got 5,775 votes. California had 94,937 registered voters, Browne got 45,520 votes.

    Browne had an enthusiastic following… But that following didn’t even reach the entirety of people who chose to affiliate with the Libertarian Party.

    The LP had more dues paying members back then because the Unified Membership Plan was counting state party donors as national party donors.

    Andy “Sure, Johnson/Weld 2016 got the most votes for an LP ticket ever, but this was mostly due to the record level of disgust with the major party candidates… the Green Party’s Jill Stein, and she was only on the ballot in 44 states plus DC, yet Jill Stein revived over 1.4 million votes, which was the 2nd highest vote total for a Green Party presidential ticket ever, with only the higher profile Ralph Nader having received more for as a Green in 2000 … The Constitution Party’s Darryl Castle only made the ballot in 24 states, which was the worst ballot access for a Constitution Party presidential ticket ever (the CP used to get on the ballot in the upper 30’s or lower 40’s number of states), yet Castle got over 203,000 votes, which is a record for the CP. Evan McMullin jumped in the race late, and only qualified for the ballot in 10 states, yet he received over 716,000 votes.

    Gary Johnson beat Evan McMullin in 9 of the 11 states where they were both on the ballot. Gary Johnson beat Jill Stein in every state where they were both on the ballot. Jill Stein beat Darrell Castle in every state where they were both on the ballot. That is not a randomly distributed protest vote.

  69. Brandon Lyon “Ron Paul … wouldn’t even endorse Johnson in 2012.”

    It’s hard to get around the fact that Ron Paul was willing to endorse Cynthia McKinney and Bob Barr in 2008 (although ultimately declined to endorse Barr after Barr failed to attend his conference), but Paul was unwilling to endorse Johnson in 2012 even after Johnson said that he wanted Ron Paul as part of his cabinet. And Johnson had endorsed Paul in 2008.

    Paul was willing to endorse Bob Barr 2008, but not Gary Johnson 2012? That takes some of the shine off.

  70. Harry Browne also ran in a race that was very close between George W. Bush and Al Gore, and lots of people succumbed to the “wasted vote” syndrome. The race between Bush and Gore was so close, that it took a court case weeks after the election to decide it.

  71. Also, running in a race that included Ralph Nader and Pat Buchanan, was far tougher than the competition Johnson had, amd in addition to this, the Constitution Party had ballot access in more states in 2000 than it had in 2012 and in 2016, which meant even more competition for Browne as compared to when Johnson ran.

  72. Ron Paul did NOT endorse Bob Barr in 2008. I do not think that Ron Paul ever really trusted or liked Barr. Ron proposed a press conference where he invited all of the minor party and independent candidates who were on enough ballots to theoretically win the election, and he suggested that they unite around ending the warmongering, ending the surveillance state, and auditing/ending the Federal Reserve System, and that the public should consider these candidates over John McCain and Barack Obama. Those candidates were Chuck Baldwin of the Constitution Party, Cynthia McKinney of the Green Party, independent Ralph Nader, and Bob Barr of the Libertarian Party. Bob Barr had to be an egomaniac, and he refused to attend a press conference with those aforementioned candidates, and he said he wanted Ron Paul to just endorse him, to which Dr. Paul responded by endorsing Chuck Baldwin instead, which was a good choice, since he was the most libertarian candidate in the race (certainly not fake “libertarian” Bob Barr). Baldwin had previously endorsed and campaigned for Ron Paul earlier that year.

    Incidentally, Cynthia McKinney spoke at Anarchapulco 2018 and 2019, and was part of a panel held at the Libertarian National Convention in 2018, and she’s calling herself an anarchist libertarian now, so if Ron Paul had specifically endorsed her, it may not have been a bad thing.

    Like I said above, Ron Paul sort of endorsed Gary Johnson in 2012. While he did not outright say, “I endorse Gary Johnson for President,” he did make some positive comments about him, and I heard that he voted for him. He did NOT endorse or make positive comments about or vote for him in 2016 though, for reasons I mentioned above.

  73. No kidding that Gary Johnson beat Stein and McMullin and Castle. I would have been surprised if he did not, because his campaign spent a lot more money than they did, and he had a lot more name recognition than they had. I would have been surprised if he did not beat them.

    My point was that votes were up IN GENERAL for minor party and independent candidates in 2020, so Stein, McMullin, and Castle did surpringly well in the election with more limited money and limited ballot access. This just adds to the protest vote argument.

  74. I just looked this up. Evan McMullin got 21.5% of the vote in his home state of Utah. He destroyed Gary Johnson there. Did Johnson even get 1% in Utah? Johnson did not get close to 21.5% of the vote anywhere, even in hus home state of New Mexico (I seem to recall him getting like 3% of the vote there). Even when Johnson ran for US Senate in New Mexico, in a race against only a Democrat and a weak Republican, who was so weak he was practically being ignored by the Republican Party, Johnson finished behind the weak Republican, with 15% of the vote, in a state where he was a two time Governor.

    Just imagine if McMullin had gotten in the race earlier and had been on the ballot in all 50 states plus DC. He may well have destroyed Johnson in vote totals. Keep in mind he was only on the ballot in 10 states, and did not even start running until the summer of 2016, and that he had essentially zero name recognition.

  77. Gary Johnson got 3.50% of the vote in Utah in 2016. In New Mexico he got 9.34% for president in 2016. For US Senate in New Mexico in 2018, his 15.38% was easily the best showing for an independent or third party candidate for that office in New Mexico in the entire history of the state.

    Evan McMullin could have got on the ballot in a lot more states if he had been willing to bring any lawsuits. His case against Wyoming and Florida would have been especially strong, but he refused to even think about any ballot access lawsuits. He could have made some good precedents if he had been willing.

  78. McMullin could have also gotten on the ballot in a lot more states, and gotten a lot more votes, had he gotten in the race earlier.

  79. Johnson getting 9.34% of the vote in New Mexico was pretty good, but consideting he’s a former two-time Governor of that state, and considering that Evan McMullin was a nobody, even in Utah, McMullin’s 21.5% of the vote was a more impressive accomplishment, from a pure vote getting standpoint.

  80. The idea that Badnarik or Browne could have done better than Johnson if they had run in 2012 and 2016 is laughable. Just look at the amount of media coverage and fundraising they were able to get. There is no way they would have even come close to Johnson’s vote total, no matter who the other candidates were.

  81. Evan McMullin wasn’t a “nobody.” He was Chief Policy Director of the House Republican Conference starting in 2013. Also he had a distinguished career in the CIA. And, helpfully for him in Utah, he was and is LDS.

  82. Brandon, this is speculation on your behalf. Even if you are right about amount of money raised, publicity, fundraising, and number of votes, you a missing the most important point, and this is that Browne and Badnarik ran on much stronger libertarian platforms. The platform of Johnson/Weld was so weak from a libertarian perspective, that I am not sure tgat it even deserves to be called a libertarian platform. You act as though the purpose of the Libertarian Party is to get votes for the sake of getting votes. This is not so. The purpose of the Libertarian party is to promote, and advance the Libertarian platform/ideology. If the purpose of the Libertarian Party is to get votes for the sake of getting votes, then would you support nominating Bernie Sanders as the LP’s presidential candidate in 2020? Bernie could easily get a lot more votes than Gary Johnson or Bill Weld. Sure, Bernie is not really a libertarian, but he’s got a few issues in common with libertarians, and since you think getting votes is all that matters, Bernie should be a better candidate to you since he’d get more votes than Gary Johnson or Bill Weld could get.

  83. Richard, in the eyes of the general public, Evan McMullin was a nobody. Few people had heard of him before he jumped in the presidential race. Fancy credentials aside, he lacked name recognition among most of the population. Heck, I bet more people knew who Jill Stein and Darryl Castle were prior to Evan McMullin jumping in the race.

  84. Browne or Badnarik would have done MUCH BETTER than Gary Johnson when it came to spreading the message of liberty, and not making a fool of oneself on national television.

  86. McMullin was also a write-in in some states and did better than the average write in. Had he entered earlier, he likely would have finished third.

  87. Bernie Sanders got a lot of write in votes for President in the 2016 general election, and he was not even running.

  88. me – Why would you assume that McMullin would have finished third? Johnson beat McMullin in 9 of the 11 states where they were both on the ballot. The only two states in which McMullin received more votes were in the two most heavily Mormon states in the country.

  89. McMullin jumped in the race late and had little time to campaign. Had he jumped in much earlier, and received a lot of donations from “Never Trump” neo-con Republicans, he could have gotten a lot more votes. Even as it was, it was an impressive vote total for a guy who had practically zero name recognition, and who jumped in the race late, and who only qualified for the ballot in 10 states.

  90. The reason Johnson had better name recognition and raised more money than McMullin, Stein, and Castle was that he was a better candidate. I have already shown to you in the past that Johnson increased his vote percentage relative to 2012 by more than did the Greens or Constitution Party. Whether or not Johnson was sufficiently libertarian for your tastes is a separate question. But it is pretty undeniable that he was a better candidate.

    Wikipedia says McMullin was on in 11 states. Is wikipedia wrong or are you trying to downplay it for some reason?

  91. Going by your “logic,” Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump raised more money, and got more votes, than all of the other candidates combined, is because they were “better” candidates.

  93. LOL! So Jim defacto admits that he does not give a damn about ideology, integrity, or anything else other than how much money a person raises, and how many votes they get. If this is all that matters, it defeats the purpose of having a Libertarian Party. You might as well go with the Democrats or the Republicans.

  94. No, stupid. I don’t agree with you that Johnson was insufficiently libertarian or that he failed at attracting new people to the party. But regardless, it is impossible to deny that Johnson performed better than Stein and Castle by every metric.

    Every metric. There is zero data to support your position.

    You’re clinging to a delusional belief that Johnson underperformed because to do otherwise means your PaleoLibertarian political strategy is in jeopardy within the Libertarian Party.

  95. We need to attract more center-Libertarians to counteract the paleo-libertarian, paleo-conservative and to a far lesser extent the socialist-libertarian factions currently in the LP. Johnson was crucial in getting those votes and attracting those people to become engaged with the party.

  96. I first joined the LP in 1974. Back then the idea of left-libertarians or center-libertarians or right-libertarians was total BS. Libertarians were neither left nor right and yet both left and right. That is what made us different and distinct. Today it appears that is all changing just like the Constitution is no longer relevant and socialism just needs a little tweaking to be perfected. Thank goodness I don’t have that much longer to go. I don’t like what I see.

  97. Yes, Johnson got more votes than Stein and Castle and McMullin. I NEVER thought he’d get less votes than they did. None of them even made the ballot in all 50 states plus DC, and Stein was the only one that even came close. None of them were big names.

    My point is that there was a record level of disgust with the major party candidates in 2016, so votes were up IN GENERAL for minor party and independent candidates. The Libertarian Party could have put just about anyone on the ballot in 2016, and they would have gotten one million plus votes.

    Johnson/Weld were miserable FAILURES when it came to the more important criteria of spreading a libertarian message and growing the Libertarian Party and movement. LP membership did go up by around 5,000, from like 15,000 or so to 20,000 or so in 2016, but by the next year it CRASHED back down to around 15,000. Last time I checked LP membership was around the end or last year or early this year, and it was at 15,100. That is pretty pathetic, considering that was around what LP membership was at around 1994-95 or 96, especially considering that US population has increased since then.

    Johnson/Weld also made the LP look like unprincipled goofballs on national television. I have talked to many, many people among the general public about the Johnson/Weld ticket, and most of the feedback is not good. Even most of those who said they voted for Johnson/Weld said the main reason they did was because they did not like Clinton or Trump. There was very little real enthusiasm for the Johnson/Weld ticket. Even a lot of people who donated to them only did so because they were trying to affect the outcome between Clinton and Trump. Nobody really cares what Johnson or Weld has to say about anything now. Look at Bill Weld’s campaign in the Republican primaries against Trump. it is a joke. There is no liberty movement behind Bill Weld like there was for Ron Paul. Weld is being propped up by Deep State operatives, neo-cons and CFR members. There is no Bill Weld r3VOLution like there was for Ron Paul. That’s because Bill Weld was NEVER a libertarian, he’s a ruling establishment shill who came into the Libertarian Party to sabotage it. The last three Libertarian Party presidential tickets were controlled opposition.

    Let’s see if the Libertarian Party can come up with a real ticket for 2020. I am sure the hijsckers, opportunistic con-artists, and Deep State infiltrators in the LP are already salivating over the prospect of Lincoln Chafee or some other phonies who are connected to the ruling establishment coming in and taking the nomination. Will enough real libertarians bother to show up at the convention to stop them this time? Stay tuned.

  98. Yeah, Johnson did such a great job attracting new people to the party that LP membership CRASHED down to the 14,000-15,000 or so range within a year of the campaign. LOL! Johnson did such a great job that around 5,000 people quit the party. LOL! Dues paying membership is around what it was back around 1994 or ’95 or so. LOL!

    And where are all of those Bill Weld libertarians? I have NEVER met one person who said they became a libertarian because of Bill Weld. Gee, I wonder why…

  99. Great point, Casual Observer. Back when I got involved with the LP in 1996 as a result of the Harry Browne for President campaign, I never saw people trying to break libertarians up into different boxes, left, right, or center. This seems to be a more recent trend.

  100. Really, Andy? You never saw anyone trying to break libertarians into different boxes in 1996? PaleoLibertarianism was invented in 1990.

    There were always different varieties of libertarian. Most libertarians when the party was founded were Objectivists, with around a quarter ancaps. Maybe neither of those can be considered left or right, but they were certainly different boxes. PaleoLibertarian is unquestionably a move to the right. GeoLibertarianism is left. I don’t know when that first made an appearance, but I assume prior to 1996.

  101. Ron Paul ran in 2008 and 2012 when there was no incumbent Republican President. Why would you think that was at all comparable to running against Trump in 2020?

  102. It doesn’t matter if Stein and Castle were on the ballot in all 50 states or not. Johnson beat both of them in every single state where they were on the ballot. And he also beat them in improvement over 2012, as I’ve shown before:

    Wikipedia lists how many voters each candidate appeared on the ballot for. Jill Stein got 1.07% of the vote while appearing in front of 89% of voters in 2016. In 2012 she got 0.36% of the vote while appearing on the ballot in front of 83.1% of voters.

    So that can be standardized.

    2016: 1.07% / 89% = 1.20%
    2012: 0.36% / 83.1% = 0.43%

    And then we can measure her improvement.

    1.20% / 0.43% = 176% better

    The same calculation for the Constitution Party:

    2016: 0.15% / 39% = 0.38%
    2012: 0.09% / 49.9% = 0.18%

    0.38% / 0.18% = 113% better

    And the Libertarian Party:

    2016: 3.28% / 100% = 3.28%
    2012: 0.99% / 95.1% = 1.04%

    3.28% / 1.04% = 215% better

    And I have also showed you what happens if you try donor counting from December 31st of the year before the Presidential election started to December 31st of the year after the Presidential election. (ie December 31st 2015 to December 31st 2017)

    Total donors in December 2015 – 11,700. December 2017 – 15,000. That’s +3,300

    Total donors in December 2011 – 14,300. December 2013 – 14,600. That’s +300

    Total donors in December 2007 – 15,100. December 2009 – 14,700. That’s -400

    Total donors in December 2003 – 21,000. December 2005 – 17,400. That’s -3,600

    Active members in December 1999 – 33,000. December 2001 – 27,700. That’s -5,300

    If you’re going to measure the possible influence of a Presidential candidate a year out, you have to measure from before the campaign began, not from the peak. Measuring from before the campaign to a year after the campaign shows you the growth.

    Barr was a poor candidate. I have offered an explanation for the declines following Browne and Badnarik. You can either accept my explanation that both the rise and fall of LNC donors was due to the start and end of the Unified Membership Plan and Project Archimedes, or you can accept that Browne and Badnarik were such awful candidates that the LNC suffered horrific donor losses because of them. I’m going with the UMP + PA explanation. But that also means that Johnson left the LNC with 3,300 additional donors a year after his campaign was done.

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