Rhode Island requires 1,000 signatures for an independent presidential candidate, and candidates may choose a partisan label beyond just “independent”. Howie Hawkins will petition in Rhode Island using the label “Independent Left” instead of “Green”. The officers of the state Green Party are opposed to having the Green Party run a presidential nominee this year. The Rhode Island Green Party is not ballot-qualified and unqualified parties have no ability in Rhode Island to protect their name. Hawkins could have petitioned using the “Green” label but chose not to.
Seems like it would have been the right circumstance to use the Socialist label.
Fred C, I agree. I am surprised that his campaign is not.
Maybe they thought independent left is easier to get signed and/or would get him more votes?
Why don’t the state party officers want a presidential candidate?
Probably because they hate Trump and want Biden to win. They fear a Green will hurt that chance, even though Rhode Island is usually far left.
Jim is right. Good question.
Something is wrong here.
Are the state party officials corrupt? Sabotaging the Green nominee/ticket?
If so, how many are corrupt? To what extent? By whom?
I’ve stated for many years that I suspect the Green AND Libertarian parties are heavily infiltrated with spies and saboteurs and operatives.
Howie bucking the corrupt party officials tells me he is more probably a dupe rather than an operative.
Again, if the party officials are corrupt and/or unreliable, we must rely on the delegates.
Delegates, we rely on you to not allow the Green party convention to be hijacked by spies and saboteurs.
Again, I do not believe any interference in the electoral process is necessary for the Dems and reps to win because of the power and everywhere quality of Duverger’s Law.
But the powers that be leave tells when and where and how they interfere, like a criminal leaving traces at a crime scene.
And interfering in the election is a crime.
“Independent Left” will probably get more votes than “Socialist”.
How come NOT — ULTRA COMMUNIST or at least RED-GREEN ???
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PR
NONPARTISAN APPV- execs/judics
TOTSOP
I think “Independent Left” sounds like a free pulp newsletter you might find in an arts district coffeeshop. Has anyone ever used “Left” or “Right” as part of their ballot label in this country before?
Meanwhile more people are self-identifying as socialists, Howie went out of his way to brand himself early on as an SP-USA/Green crossover candidate, and it’s easier shorthand for attracting safe state Sanders supporters who are still reluctant about Biden. At very least it would have been a nice bone to throw at the SP as thanks for their nomination.
They are probably in a better position to judge what will be easier to get the general public to sign and vote for than you are. If they are wrong, they’re the ones who will pay the price. My instinct though is that independent left would be easier to get signed as well as to draw votes for. It’s easily understood and relatively non-threatening while communicating a general policy direction.
As for why Rhode Island Greens don’t want to run for president maybe it’s because it’s a race they can’t win and believe deflects attention, money, time and resources from their local candidates who may have at least somewhat of a shot. They are not the only third party or only state which believes smaller local races are the place to concentrate and not a national race where it takes literally billions of dollars to even be competitive. Many greens also believe in really focusing and acting locally in general. They may or may not be right but it’s a valid theory.
We’re all experts here Woody 🙂
It’s certainly possible that it’s a better label, I’m just skeptical for my reasons above. And if I was an SP member I’d be genuinely annoyed (maybe even irked).
If he ends up within the ballpark of Stein’s last two runs I’ll gladly hand it to him. It looks like the last time there was an SP presidential nominee on in RI was 2000, when McReynolds took 52 votes vs Nader’s 25K+. The WWP, PSL, and Anderson’s Justice Party have been on & off since, never cracking 1K combined, but always with a Green in the race as well.
I’m not an expert, so maybe I’m out of my depth. But whether they are right or wrong they are the ones who will pay the price or reap the rewards. It’s not my party or ideology so I don’t care too much either way.
Should SP members be irked? Maybe. Maybe not. If a different label helps the candidate they nominated get more votes – and they nominated him knowing he would run with different labels in different states, and not with their label in most states – maybe they see more upside in being part of his campaign than downside, whatever the labels. They could have chosen to nominate someone who would run with them and only them. They made a different choice.
I seem to recall they have been floundering in ballot access recently. As I recall they did especially poorly last time, did they not? Maybe if they had the volunteers or money to get him on with their label that’s what he would run with but whoever did have the money and or volunteers dictated a different decision. I don’t know, that’s a guess.
52 votes in 2000 and no candidate in 20 years is not a good sign they could have done it this year and so pissed or not it doesn’t matter. Maybe they had little choice and thus their endorsement is not worth much of anything.
Whether he ends up in Stein ballpark, above or below, it’s a different year with a different dynamic so hard to compare. My guess is that third parties in general will do worse this year. Of course I could be completely wrong. But in any case it won’t tell us if he would have been better or worse off with the SP label.
If Hawkins wanted to be really cute, he could’ve used the term “Democratic Socialist”
I think the Green Party is entering a period where it will be severely diminished as a national entity. I think the party will continue to field candidates in targeted elections, including Presidential elections. But we’re likely to see gradual diminishing returns, and diminished participation. Many activists on the Left are moving on to other causes. There will, of course, always be a segment of activists who will continue to work on environmental issues using tactics other than electoral activities.
@Jim Jones, from the semi-inside, nationally the party faces tussles over whether or not to be eco-socialist, especially how much to emphasize the socialist angle.
@Phil, you’re exactly right on the state party’s stance and I totally reject it. A. I’m not an “AccommoGreen” myself. B. Clinton beat Trump in Rhode Island by more than 15 percentage points, and it’s unnecessary. C. Presidential candidates can also draw attention to lower level races … of which RI has none. NOR did it in 2018. Nor 2016. Nor 2014. Maybe it’s time for the RI GP, or the bits of it that exist, to look itself in the mirror.
They should use the “Aquamarine” label in the Ocean State.
See the ***socialist*** in the old USSR and nazi regimes of death and slavery —
and EVIL deception.
The Rhode Island GP is concerned about Joe Biden not being elected President. Bunch of liberals if you ask me. https://twitter.com/RIGreens/status/1266073229640314881
If Howie isn’t interested in challenging the Democrats in a 100% safe Democratic state does this mean he’s not really going to be campaigning much at all? Is this going to be a paper candidate run, similar to his 2018 NY governor run where he barely traveled or campaigned. He never even made it into my county and I’m less than 2 hours from where he lives
@Brandon: I think Hawkins will campaign wherever he can. He was involved in the 2004 independent Ralph Nader campaign. That campaign was intent on making its presence felt everywhere. This was in opposition to the 2004 Green Party ticket, which really wanted Kerry to win. I think Hawkins has always wanted to campaign wherever possible. He’s also been involved in some very close races in the Syracuse area. He’s not a safe states candidate. Most people just don’t want to support third parties these days. And in states like New York the laws a encouraging that sentiment.
Hawkins wants to challenge democrats. Rhode island greens apparently want a non electoral strategy. Which is fine, but then why do they want the green party name just so other people can’t have it? Is it still that same crank gerritt?
I don’t believe the environment is becoming less of an issue. If anything more. And have not noticed the green party confining itself to that issue
. Now I am not an insider to know if they are getting better or worse organized, but if they are fracturing and diminishing it’s not because of lowering popularity of their views but due to internal issues. I am not an ecosocialist or any kind of socialist or anything close but it’s a viewpoint that has plenty of support among left leaning people I know. I think it deserves to be represented by a party that is not afraid to challenge democrats just as others should not be afraid to challenge republicans. While no party represents me and ultimately a zero party system of nonpartisan candidates for all offices would be best, as long as we have parties let’s have more, not fewer.
@Brandon: Howie’s already rejected Chomsky, Ehrenreich et al calling for a safe states strategy.
https://socraticgadfly.blogspot.com/2020/02/howie-hawkins-tells-chomskyites-to-stfu.html
Oh, and why is it always Dems whining about Greens? I never hear the same amount of commotion from Republicans about Libertarians.
That’s probably because libertarians are more evenly balanced, drawing just as many or more votes away from democrats by being to their left on military, foreign policy, corporate welfare, police/ justice/ drug war, prison industrial, national security and domestic espionage and cultural or social issues such as lgbt rights, abortion, immigration, and so on, as they do from republicans based on gun rights, taxes, regulation, deficits, debt, health care and other economic issues.
Thomas, you could be right — as far as Dems’ perceptions, to put that important qualifier on things. I know Dems were worried about Amash and Amash was worried about Dems.
That said, as “watermelon Green” (environmentally Green outside, Socialist of some sort inside), I personally DON’T see Libertarians that way. On the third hand, the reason national Dems DO see them that way is that they’ve eaten too much at the neoliberal hog trough.
It’w why I’m not a Dem, any voting chance I get, and why I’m not an “AccommoGreen,” the Green equiv of “ConservaDem.”
Total Votes / Total Members = RATIO to elect each Member in a PR legislative body.
>>> possible TM parties REALLY represented >>> more left vs right yelling than ever
— like nonstop chaos entertainment as in many cartoons and action movies.
Reality = divide ALL larger regimes — see which smaller extremist regimes collapse.
I thought this post was about the label chosen by a presidential candidate for his petition. How does that relate to ratio in a legislative body?
Mike, from your comment on one other post and here, you’re new.
Don’t feed DemoRep.
@RDLF fan – Thanks for the link. I expected that attitude from many normal Green voters this year, but if even some state party leaders are subscribing to it, this could be a worse year for Greens than I believed.
@Thomas – The Libertarian Party is *relatively* more balanced than the Greens. But the LP takes about 2/3rds from Republicans and 1/3rd from Democrats. There are specific instances where polling indicated that an LP candidate was taking more from the Democrat – the Virginia Gubernatorial race from, I think, 2013, comes to mind – but, in general, the LP pulls somewhat harder from Republicans.
And yes, Republicans have tried to keep the LP off the ballot in several states.
And lots of polls which have showed takes equally, or even more from Democrats in other races. SO there you go.
In general probably right around 50/50
Mike,
Feed Socratic Gadfly crap, comments, s..t.
All the same to him.
Gadfly,
I’m still waiting for your explanation for banning me from your crap website.
At least Warren Solomon Redlich, owner, offered a rationale. A filthy lying rationale but at least one to William Saturn for banning me from IPR.
Sorry ALL trolls/morons [an overlapping group) —
the candidate label machination stuff is directly connected to the lack of REAL representation of third parties in legislative bodies due to rigged SMD / minority rule gerrymanders.
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PR and APPV – pending Condorcet
TOTSOP
@Amy “Amazon” Mason – No, it is not around 50-50 and there are not lots of polls showing that the LP takes more from the Democrats. There are some, but not lots. It’s more like 66-33.
You are incorrect.
Libertarians take:
30% GOP
30% Dems
40% Wouldn’t have voted
That sounds about right. .
I’ve watched the GPMN get infiltrated by “demogreens” since 2002. This year the GPMN state coordinating committee has undermined the organizing efforts of the H’20 supporters. One of them has even publicly endorse Kanye West which is against the GPMN bylaws. It has been very ugly and it’s bad enough we have Biden supporters parroting the same lies and vote shaming as they have since 2000. Alaska Green pulled a switch and bait where the petitioners of the Green Party got the required signatures and switched the candidate names to Ventura and McKinney. Montana suit just lost in the Supreme Court. But, the H’20 has currently 356 potential electoral votes and only 270 are needed to win.
Pretty much all of the minor parties are infiltrated and sabotaged.
I agree with Rhode Island Green Party, It’s too important to defeat Trump to let a third party candidate run!