On September 10, California’s Secretary of State cleared an initiative for circulation. It needs 623,212 signatures in the next six months. It asks voters if California should seek to become an independent country. If it gets at least 55%, then it sets up a Commission to study the issue.
I hope it is successful!
The irony is that many both in and out of California, and across the political spectrum would be happy if this happened. A rare case of biparisanship may result.
I doubt this issue will get enough signatures to qualify for the ballot.
WILL THE USA NAVY LOVE LOSING NAVY BASES IN SF, LA, SAN DIEGO —
AND HAVING RED CA BECOME A PART OF RED RUSSIA AND/OR RED CHINA ???
—
ABOLISH THE USA SENATE AND EC.
—
PR AND APPV — PENDING CONDORCET.
TOTSOP
Demo Rep: If California does gain independence I don’t think it would align with either Red China or Fascist Russia. I think California would follow in the footsteps of Tito’s Yugoslavia and be an independent Socialist country.
Where is Yugoslavia NOW ???
D-E-A-D — after mass murders in various parts – Bosnia, Kosovo, etc.
See USELESS 1993-2001 Bill Clinton – having sex, rock and roll.
2020 Balkans even more explosive UN-stable than 1914 Balkans ???
Demo Rep: It doesn’t matter where Yugoslavia is now. It is an example of a Communist country that was not aligned with either Russia or China. A Socialist California can certainly follow in the footsteps of Tito. How such a country would eventually end up is anyone’s guess.
Actually Robert l care.
The communist founder of Yugoslavia, Tito was successful after World War ll in defeating his opponent, Draža Mihailović who was pro monarchy. If that had not been the case Yugoslavia would most likely have been a monarchy like UK and Spain. Most likely the autonomous regions of Kosovo (majority Albanians) and Voyvodina (formed for the Hungarian population but who are the minority) would not have been formed as well as the republic of Macedonia (who are considered by many to be Bulgarian as they speak the same language. The Greeks also don’t like them being called Macedonians as they have their own region called as such). The Slavic nations of Slovenia, Serbia, Croatia and Bosnia could have been the sole autonomous republics. Montenegro’s population is orthodox Christians like in Serbia and they only were formed because the region used to be a monarchy. They would have lost their raison d’être if a Yugoslavian monarchy existed.
Would monarchist Yugoslavia have survived? Why not after all Spain and UK have survived whereas communist diverse nations USSR, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia did not. In the Arab world the only stable countries are the monarchies and perhaps Republican Tunisia and Algeria. In UK even if Scotland persists in going with another independence referendum the UK government may not allow it and handle it like the Spanish government did with Catalonian referendum who boycotted it.
The borders of Bosnia would also have been different. Serb orthodox areas would have remained in Serbia, Catholic parts in Hercegovina would be part of Croatia and Bosnia could have been formed for the muslims. This is of course all theory but entirely possible. Bottom line is communism failed in dealing with diverse populations.
Hero: I never said no one cared about Yugoslavia. I said that Demo Rep asking where Yugoslavia is now doesn’t matter.
Regardless of the suffering and death through the years in the territory of the Southern Slavs it is a fact that Yugoslavia existed for decades as a Communist country without aligning with either Russia or China.
What fate would befall an independent Socialist California also doesn’t matter. It is possible for California to do in the future what Yugoslavia did in the past. I am not saying it would be a good thing, just that it is possible and gave an historical example.
Thank you for your feedback. I managed to get this information from Wikipedia’s Yes California page.
« The last instance of secession in the United States was in 1861, a precursor to the formation of the Confederate States of America, when 11 states declared their independence from the Union. The US Constitution lacks provision for secession.[15] The Supreme Court ruled in Texas v. White in 1869 that no state can unilaterally leave the Union.[16] Secession would require a US Constitutional amendment approved by two-thirds majorities in the US House of Representatives and Senate,[17] then ratification by 38 state legislatures. Analysts consider California’s secession improbable. »
The bottom line is states would be reluctant to give California its independence because this would create a domino effect and would risk having other states requesting that they give them their independence
like Texas. Also though California is liberal not all liberals are socialists. They are into social democracy that is practiced n Scandinavia rather then what is practiced in Yugoslavia. Communism has always been enforced amongst the population. Even when Allende was President of Chile, the people did not necessarily want Chile to be communist and in my opinion he was as controversial as was Pinochet.
Hey guys,
Can you help me out?
I am trying to figure out what is going on with the Kevin Zeese thread.
On my computer, it reads no activity (crickets).
Stopped at 73 comments.
Can you verify this?
BTW, my take on California secession is, interesting but not acceptable.
The Socialist Republic of California?
What would be next, The Republic of Texas?
The Free State of New Hampshire and The Progressive State of Vermont. Then one invades the other like mortal enemies Nazi Germany and USSR?
New Mexico Secession joins Mexico?
The Rugged Individual State of Alaska?
The Mormon Republic of Utah?
Come on.
Hi Robert,
I went to that page. What about it? I assume that If people want to add their messages they are welcome to do so. I personally never heard of Zeese but saw that he was a big guy. He may have even been obese. It’s a known fact that big people have higher risk of experiencing health problems. By the way l heard that the Simpsons created a character that may have been based on you. Congratulations if that is true!
1775-1776 13 STATES SECEDE FROM BRITISH EMPIRE — 1776 DOI, LAST PARA.
1777 Vermont SECEDES from New York State — later becomes State 14 in 1791.
USA CONST – ART VII – 9 STATES SECEDE FROM 1777 ARTS CONFED — CREATE USA REGIME IN 1787-1789
RI AND NC BECOME *FOREIGN* REGIMES FOR A WHILE.
Lincoln-Grant APPOINTED SCOTUS Hacks follow the tyrant PARTY line in the subversion of the Const. –
PAPER MONEY [GREENBACKS] — UPHELD BY SCOTUS HACKS
WV – 1863 TOTAL BOGUS SECESSION FROM VA – VIA BOGUS UNION ARMY MACHINATIONS — UPHELD BY SCOTUS HACKS.
1866-1870 EX-CONFED STATES DENIED USA SENATORS/REPS UNTIL MOST FORCED TO RATIFY 13-14-15 AMDTS.
BOTTOM LINE — GOVTS OF ***EXPEDIENCY*** AND FORCE.
ZERO NEW IN 6,000 PLUS YEARS.
Hero: I do not expect California or any other state or group of states to declare independence. My personal opinion is that the United States should be broken up into six or seven independent countries. But that isn’t going to happen. Forget the courts, the possibility of Secession was decided by the sword in 1865. Legal arguments are worthless since the Feds have the military advantage. When the Supreme Court ruled that the Cherokees did not have to be forcibly sent to Oklahoma against their will, President Jackson said something along the lines of, How many troops does the Chief Justice? When it is a choice between a court order or a gun, the gun wins every time.
My comments above were not because I agree with the idea of California independence, but solely as a response to Demo Rep saying that a Socialist country would need to align itself with either Russia or China. Demo Rep is wrong about that and Yugoslavia is the best example.
How many troops does the chief justice “have”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worcester_v._Georgia
Jackson – one of many LAWLESS party hack PREZ TYRANTS.
PART OF THE GENOCIDE OF AMERICAN INDIANS 1607-1890.
VERY FEW INDIAN SURVIVORS MADE NATURALIZED USA CITIZENS IN 1924 AND 1940 USA LAWS.
SOME AMERICAN INDIAN TRIBAL / CORPORATE STUFF IN SOME TREATIES/ STATES — PENDING MORE USA CONGRESS MACHINATIONS — EG RECENT SCOTUS OKLA OP.
The recent Supreme Court ruling on which courts have jurisdiction on matters involving tribal members is one small step in the right direction. Hopefully the tribes would eventually have full sovereignty over their lives and land.
I read the initiative as establishing the Commission if the initiative is passed in November 2022. The commission would study the issues involved with independence. The plebiscate would occur in November 2024.
I read the role of the commission as similar to that performed by the Electoral Commission prior to the Brexit Referendum – to provide objective information to voters in the plebiscate.
The court ruled on the issue of illegal aliens. Not “non-citizens”. The Census has interpreted “in” as usually resident.
Can an alien on a tourist visa, who has overstayed his permission to visit, and evaded deportation be considered resident?
@RS,
How would an undocumented alien document that they have lived in a city, state, etc. For one year? For that matter, how would you document your residence?
The WHOLE citizen/resident stuff is one super-mess –
1775-1789 original/naturalized State citizens / legal permanent foreign residents (esp via treaties/laws).
1789-now original / naturalized USA citizens / legal permanent foreign residents (esp via treaties/laws).
ALLEGIANCE chains – see DOI, last para.
Most birth records NOT showing nation-state status of fathers.
Jim Riley: An undocumented alien can use pay stubs, utility bills, or rent receipts to prove they had been a resident for a year.
Hero,
Looks to me like paulie found a new identity for comments on BAN.
Sure Zeese was/is a big guy. Looks overweight even. Heart attack looks plausible.
But so are you.
Spooks are not going to murder somebody obviously unless they want to. Like JFK.
It is easy to figure out a plausible scenario to murder somebody.
Jim Riley: I think there should be no immigration laws at all. No one can be illegal if the immigration laws are repealed. Citizen or non citizen is not a distinction that I make. If a person is here, where they were born and when they arrived makes no difference to me.
Robert Milnes: I am home right now. Give me a call 405 962 9728. My fellow Okies Chris Powell and Frank Robinson, who comment here from time to time, have seen me in the flesh several times. They can vouche for my identity. But I would reall like to speak with on the phone. It 135 PM Central Time. I will be home all afternoon and evening. Gimme a call.
“really” like not real
Damn it one number off on my phone number. The correct number is 405 962 9528. Fat fingers and a small phone keyboard are my arch enemy.
The definitive legal case on the question of secession is Texas v White. While it states an absolutist position against unilateral secession. it does leave the door open a crack for negotiated secession:
“The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration, or revocation, except through revolution, or through consent of the States.”
So, presumably, a state may negotiate secession with the “consent of the [other] states”, presumably through Congress.
Milnes, l am not Robert K. Stock. I am also open to giving my mobile number to those who request it. You can see who l am, have on hand my real name chat on FaceTime or WhatsApp etc.
WZ –
1777 Art Confed
Articles of Confederation and [[[ perpetual Union ]]] between the states of New Hampshire, Massachusetts-bay Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia.
—
Multiple FATAL Defects — BLOWN AWAY by 1787 USA Const Art. VII – 9 States.
NC and RI last parts of 1777 AC regime – then one more D-E-A-D regime in political history.
I would love to see California leave the union. Let their commie nation fail on its own. Maybe Mexico will annex it.
The Articles of Confederation were America’s first mutual defense treaty. The Constitution was America’s first free trade agreement.
Robert K. Stock with the “Andy tell” above. Hmmm
Andy tell my ass. For as long as I have been here I have made spelling errors and I most likely will continue to do so. My phone number is 405 962 9528 call me. I would like to speak to you.
https://vig.cdn.sos.ca.gov/2020/general/pdf/complete-vig.pdf
CA Nov 2020 Off. Voter Info Guide —
check the 12 props — pp 7-77
Which 1 or more will collapse the CA RED commie economy — if approved ???
Will bankrupt Devil City bail out RED commie CA ???
@RS,
How can one get a pay stub without a valid SSN? A pay stub doesn’t demonstrate residency. I used to get paid by an Oklahoma company while residing in Colorado. Utility bills and rent receipts don’t demonstrate residency.
@WZ,
The reasoning of Texas v White is specious.
Jim Riley: It is not up to me to work out how to establish residency. I will leave that for others. If all immigration laws are repealed as I would like, it will no longer a problem.
Winners in Wars [ inter-national / civil ] declare results — esp. including turf controls
— for 6,000 years.
How many folks in mobile homes — land, water, air — moving around daily, weekly, etc. ???
Thus — the Census D-A-Y question – legal residence on such DAY.
USA Const
1-2-2 No Person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the Age of twenty five Years, and been seven Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be [[ an Inhabitant of that State ]] in which he shall be chosen.
1-3-3 No Person shall be a Senator who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty Years, and been nine Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, [[ be an Inhabitant of that State ]] for which he shall be chosen.
2-1-5 No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years [[ a Resident within the United States ]].
14-1 part All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they [[ reside ]].
RESIDENT = INHABITANT = RESIDE ??? DUH.
California was an independent nation. We had William
Ide as President and had diplomatic recognitions from
the Third Kamehameha the King of Hawai’i.
I like that idea on one condition. Take Washington and Oregon with them.
@Jim Riley:
Given that the Constitution is silent on the subject of secession, Texas v White is the only definitive pronouncement on the subject.
J T Bowles
The American Independent Party of California Supports the State of Jefferson. That would only mean Counties in Oregon and California. No Appleknockers in the State of Jefferson.
If you recall the past Commonwealth of Virginia recognized Nova Albion (New England) of the 16th Century formed by Drake on the West Coast of North America. That was raised as an issue by Benjamin Harrison.
IF the RED commie States on both coasts secede, then who in the central USA will force the RED commies to stay ???
A ghost of Abe Lincoln ???
Possible mini-problemo with Great Lakes access to Atlantic Ocean ???
Jim Riley,
It was on 17 December 1883 that the United States Supreme Court came down with the 9-0 decision in
EX PARTE CROW DOG which caused the the meeting in
Room 41 of the US Capitol headed by Senator Benjamin
Harrison over the idea of adding Greenland into Alaska in the future.
That time has come. President Chester Arthur on
17 May 1884 signed the Harrison Alaska Organic Act in to law. Section 1 of that act will allow POTUS by Executive Order with the consent of the Government of the State of Alaska to include Greenland into Alaska on a New Hampshire plan as used by the State of New Hampshire in 1835. No additional authority from Congress is needed. No vote is required from the natives of Greenland, because a landing party from the USS POLARIS on 13 September 1871 took formal possession
of Greenland in the name of POTUS Grant and his SECNAV. Charles Francis Hall was at the head of that landing party.
2021 will be the Sesquicentennial of Greenland becoming an insular possession of the United States.
That is far better than the Republicans plan of making Greenland the 51st State.
@DR,
Article I, Section 2, Para 1.
You are confusing who may be elected with who elects them. Senators have nothing to do with apportionment.
Michigan has 14 US representatives who are elected by those qualified to be electors for the Michigan House. See Article II section 1, and 2, plus implementing stastutes, plus 26th Amendment, and interpretation of 14th Amendment, right to move among states.
Congress requires that representatives be chosen by groups of electors from 14 geographical districts. Clearly each of those 14 districts should have equal numbers of electors, not equal number of persons.
How can anyone who is here on a temporary basis be domiciled here?
@WZ,
How can something that is based on specious reasoning, be definitive?
Can you explain the reasoning of Texas v White? Don’t jump to the conclusion, explain how the SCOTUS came to their conclusion.
JR —
Demo Rep on September 11, 2020 at 10:25 pm
is about resident stuff for Census — NOT elections.
——-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White
Texas hack machinations re USA govt bonds.
State — fictional artificial public person — property owner, employer, contractor, etc.
MS –
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland
Good luck on ANY USA connection/claim.
Dem Rep
The Wikipedia web site you linked give no reference to the taking of formal possession by the landing party of the USS POLARIS at 11:00 am local time on 13 September 1871 at Thank-God Harbor on Greenland or that the WINDSOR of Nantucket Island in 1776 rejected by the Danish-Norway monopoly pretension on trading with Greenlander natives.
Why did you cite that useless web link?
@ Jim Riley:
You are completely missing the point. It’s the only available precedent. Can you produce another?
Robert K. Stock,
Sorry. I can’t call. Then you/someone/anyone/everyone has my number.
I have enough problems.
So, Tom Knapp’s mom died.
Kevin Zeese died.
My dad died.
So Tom has been gaslighted.
Margaret Flowers has been gaslighted.
I have been gaslighted.
Jo Jorgensen’s mom died.
Jo has been gaslighted.
Andy has written a very moving condolences comment here at BAN about Kevin Zeese dying.
Using Darcy Richardson’s name.
Mark Seidenberg,
According to Don Grundmann, you have destroyed the CP. At least for 2020.
Lots of money involved.
Politics is very dirty, people.
What is going on, really?
Are the powers that be really THAT evil?
Let’s find and rescue these people, shall we?
Robert Milnes
You stated “Mark Seidenberg, according to Don Grundmann, has destroyed the CP (at least in 2020)”.
What is you source of this disinformation of Dr. Don
Grundmann?
I approved three candidates running for POTUS against
Dr. Don Grundmann in CP in 2020 ballot access in California access to the AIP primary. Dr. Don Grundmann had no access to that primary and it was on September 2, 2008 was the last day he held an office in the American Independent Party.
That would be Tom’s mom (and brother),
Jo’s mom, my dad,
Kevin Zeese.
Now, Darcy Richardson. Kidnapped? Or never existed at all.
WSS William S. Saturn? I say he existed as a young internet genius lurker.
Then around 2013 something happened. Kidnapped? I think so.
So then his identity taken over. By paulie at least.
My ex girlfriend, Nancy McCusker Benson, kidnapped.
Fake illness cancer. Fake funeral, burial.
DIG HER UP!
Mark Seidenberg,
My source is a comment by Grundmann recently in either IPR or here at BAN.
But since we have people writing comments using other people’s name, who knows who wrote it.
LOL! Welcome to dirty politics 101.
What goes around comes around.
Personally I think you are an Israeli operative and I believe Grundmann.
But nobody listens to me. Who cares anyway?
If Andy can write such a moving condolences comment here at BAN,
then why not a fake identity Darcy Richardson writing moving comments over the years in IPR?
I admit I was fooled if so.
Tom Knapp, can you admit you were fooled?
Would you like to find out if your mom and brother are really dead?
Or kidnapped and being held in a high security facility, possibly in Israel?
Did you try to cut their face off to see if it was them in the casket or a high quality mannequin?
Robert Milnes,
Why do you “think I am an Israeli operative”, I am American and Canadian and not Israeli. I was born in Los Angeles. I am also Canadian because my mother was born in Montreal and I was born after 1 January 1947.
If there is all this fake stuff going on, then the Jeffry Epstein “suicide” would be no problem.
Kind of like the Jack Ruby cancer. Get out of jail free card!
Ruby probably really really is dead by now.
After living a life in Israel with a fake ID and a pension of some sort.
Mark,
don’t bother to try to change my mind. I’m crazy. Everybody says so for years in IPR.
Are you trying to change the mind of a crazy person?
Are you MAD?
If you don’t believe me, just ask paulie. He’ll tell you I’m crazy.
Straight up!
Was it Tom’s brother or father that died recently?
His mother VERY recently.
Sorry, I’m getting a little confused with all the dead people and fake stuff going on!
Robert Milnes,
I am not mad [at you]! I have no idea who Paulie is? Why do you except Paulie views of you with no proof?
paulie AKA Paul Frankel AKA cyberpig xaulie banali is an internet troll who trolls this site under various names and controls IPR.
For years he has harassed Robert Milnes and has made his life miserable.
Geez Mark,
Where were you educated?
My humor is wasted on you.
But that explains your politics!
Does anyone know if Flowers has legal authority over Zeese body?
Are there any volunteers to help me find out what happened to Zeese? And to rescue anyone who has been kidnapped?
I propose the formation of green and blue brigades. Tom Knapp, are you down?
Robert Milnes.
As to your question on where I was educated. The answer is in several location, mostly in California and Louisiana. Additionally in Hawai’i, Alabama, New Jersey,
Virginia, District of Columbia, Maryland, England, and Israel.