Leaders of the Democratic Party continue saying they are worried that if Cornel West runs for president as the Green Party nominee, that will cause Donald Trump to win the 2024 election. Then they frequently assert that Jill Stein’s Green candidacy in 2016 caused Donald Trump to win that election. For example, this story says that a few days ago, David Axelrod said, “In 2016 the Green Party played an outsized role in tipping the election to Donald Trump.”
If reporters would do a minimal amount of research, they could point out that the 2016 exit polls show that Hillary Clinton did not lose any state due to the Jill Stein vote. All they need to do is google “Jill Stein exit polls”. Even in Michigan, which was the closest state Trump carried in 2016, the exit polls show that only 25% of the Stein voters said they would have voted for Hillary Clinton if Stein had not been running. And 14% of the Stein voters said they would have voted for Donald Trump if Stein had not been running. So in Michigan, Clinton only lost a net of 11% of the number of Stein voters, which was not enough to change the Michigan outcome.
Elite reporters and political strategists assume wrongly that most voters are ideological, as they themselves are. But political science research on voter behavior has long shown that a large share of voters are not ideological.
HOW MANY NEW AGE LIARS IN EXIT POLLS ???
Must set the narrative, facts be damned.
Yahoo, another FAKE NEWS site.
And, here’s the truth about Jill Stein’s 2015 visit to Moscow, contra the #BlueAnon smears happening right now. https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/06/jill-stein-says-nothing-happened-at-her-dinner-with-putin/
The major parties would simply not have this problem to fret about, if swing states, like Michigan, simply adopted the method used to select Presidential Electors in Maine. Then, it would be much clearer how third parties were affecting the outcome.
But, then again, maybe they DON’T want to know how third parties are affecting the outcome. That might ruin their narrative, and compel them to confront actual facts.
There is no faking the fact that the major parties are terrified of “spoilers”.
Fake news sites cover real stories. It’s the spin they put on them which makes them fake news. Babylon Bee is way less fake news than the establishment fake news mudya.
BabylonBee.com, ya patsies!
Ideological? What does that mean in this context? Don’t voters vote because of their ideas about whatever?
Non-ideological voters vote according to whether they like or dislike the party or the candidate, but their likes or dislikes aren’t based on policy proposals. Non-ideological voters just have a gut reaction that they either like, or dislike, a candidate or that candidate’s party.
I believe that a fair number of voters agree with the Democratic Party on policy, but they still hate the Democratic Party for its elitism, or its apparent lack of concern about its own dictatorial tendencies. If President Biden were wise, he would say publicly that he recognizes there is great partisan diversity in the U.S., that there are parties other than the two major parties, that he recognizes the right of all shades of opinion to compete. President Ronald Reagan, while speaking in Moscow, mentioned the existence of the Libertarian Party and the Socialist Party. President Barack Obama once mentioned the existence of the Libertarian Party. It would be refreshing if Biden were to say that he believes in voting rights for persons of all political persuasions.
IN WHAT BILLION YEARS WILL THE TOP TYRANT HACKS MENTION IN PUBLIC REAL ELECTION REFORMS –
PR
APPV
CONDORCET
OR EVEN RCV ???
—
SAME FOR THE TYRANT HACK LAWYERS IN BALLOT ACCESS CASES.
Mother Jones? Are you fucking kidding me? That’s as fake and commie as you can get.
Part of AZ problem is what he considers “real election reforms” and the circular “logic” as to why.
Richard Winger, so people vote for the Green Party because they like Jill Stein or Howie Hawkins, even though they’re not even liberal? I’ve never met anyone who votes for small ideological third parties like that, and I’ve met a lot of people, including people who don’t care a lot about the ins and outs of politics. But those people vote major party, write in mickey mouse, or don’t vote at all.
No surprise Richard Winger is pushing Biden yet again.
@RW,
If the president were wise, his name would not be Joe Biden.
https://www.infowars.com/posts/watch-creepy-biden-terrifies-little-girl-by-acting-like-hes-eating-her/
Winger’s boy Biden.
Even if you agree with those exit polls – I’d like to know more about who did them, their possible biases and methodology – there could be intentional bias like AZ alluded to, or unintended bias based on who is willing to talk to exit pollsters and who is not.
Even if those exit polls are completely accurate, which seems unlikely, Axelrod is correct in his overall point. He didn’t claim Stein swung the election all by herself, only that small numbers of Green voters can have a decisive or outsize contributory role, even if the swing is only 11%.
SocraticGadfly – Nobody gets that close to Putin without a purpose. Stein may be completely unaware of what that purpose was. But, Putin wanted that photo taken.
Stein was on the Russian’s radar. At least one of the ads they ran in 2016 pushed voting for her. See: https://i.imgur.com/jkFJKYO.png
She may have been a patsy, or she may have lied. Either explanation could be plausible. Maybe even both?
Better idea: reform presidential elections. If we use the data from 2020, there were 10 presidential tickets that got over 0.1% of the vote.
My idea: have multi round elections.
First round: voters would vote for 4 candidates, with the top 4 candidates with the best record qualifying for the semifinal round.
Semifinal round: voters would vote for 2 candidates, with the top 2 candidates quslifying for the final round.
Final round: voters vote for 1 candidate
An actual better idea would be to not have presidential elections. National level government has no legitimate function except national defense
. The only legitimate role of a president is commander in chief. He should be a general or admiral picked by other generals and admirals, along the model of election of a pope or patriarch. It makes no sense to have civilian voting on commander in chief .
Local elections should have one round and one standing count by party every one year.
Max is on the right track here.
John, Real News Media, Ignatius 1919, Fred, Pat, Bob, Tim, Earl, and Skip also make sense above.