Mike Huckabee recently said in a speech that if the Republican Party doesn’t continue to vigorously fight same-sex marriage, he will leave the party and become an independent. See this story.
In 2008, Huckabee ran for the Republican presidential nomination and polled the third highest number of popular votes in Republican presidential primaries. He received 4,191,028 votes, just behind second-place finisher Mitt Romney, who got 4,525,616. John McCain, who got the 2008 nomination, polled 9,862,865.
Excellent! An Independent party based on a platform of bigotry and stupidity would be useful for all voters. It would make identifying asshole politicians so much easier.
TruFoe:
I read the article. No where in the article did Governor Huckabee say he would start a Independent Party.
He said he would become a Independent.
Why do you suggest that people who might share Huckabee”s views are bigoted and stupid? Is not this a nation where one has a right to their views, no matter how distasteful you or I might find them?
Or, do you hold the liberal political correct position that certain views are not allowed to be held or publicly discussed?
I think the Nazis in Germany and the Communists in Russia and China held such a view.
Bigotry is a set of beliefs. And a bigot is entitled to those beliefs. However, he’s not entitled to insinuate those beliefs into public policy if those policies result in the creation of a second, inferior class of Americans who are allowed only some of the civil rights which the then “superior” class of Americans are afforded.
You are entitled to “believe” anything you want to believe. That is consistent with a “Lllll-iberal” (and Libertarian, I believe) philosophy. The rub comes when a political force gains enough power to jam those beliefs down the throats of fellow citizens through public policy.
Mike H. is entitled to join any church or religious organization which holds the same set of beliefs that he holds. And, speaking as a “Llllll-iberal,” that religious organization is entitled to hold their members, parishioners, communicants, etc. to whatever practices they wish. So, if a church decides it is wrong for two people of the same gender to “marry,” they are perfectly within their constitutional rights to refuse to marry those individuals, or recognize the civil contract that governmental units may recognize. But ONLY within the confines of their church, parish, or religious organization. Outside of those boundaries…just keep the hell out of my government and its laws and we’ll get along just fine.
Anyway, you want sharia…? Move to some nice sectarian Middle Eastern country where religion rules civil life.
As for the independent party, that’s just my own dream. I think it would be a wonderful convenience for the rest of us if the Mike Huckabees in this country gathered together into a political party, for the reason I stated above. If they did it would be easier to identify those people who would, if given an opportunity, purge our American society of reason, science, and tolerance. And, just for the record, I would enthusiastically support the exercise of their right to trumpet their bigoted beliefs, in public, until their vocal cords stretched to the point of snapping.
TruFoe:
The problem is there are people in this country who do not share your tolerance for such people under the conditions you list. There are some people who believe people like Governor Huckabee should be thrown into prison for publicly expressing their views. These are the people whom I worry about.
It is true such people do not at this time control our government. But what happens when they do control it?
And to those who claim such will never happen in this country, let me remind them, the people of Germany initially did not think the Nazis would become the totalitarian regime where all views other than the Nazis’ were suppressed.
Good riddence to bad rubbish
Mike Huckabee’s entitled to his beliefs, and I’m entitled to tell him to suck the hairy one. Free speech is a beautiful thing.
America’s Party should reach out to him. Possibly also the Constitution Party, although his foreign policy views may not be in line with the party platform.
It is sad that one cannot disagree with Governor Huckabee without having to resort to negative comments.
When Huckabee’s views affect me personally, you’re damn right I’m going to comment negatively. I can respect differences of opinion, but not when your opinion is a personal, demeaning insult and an affront to my very dignity.
I think saying gay people are not worthy of the same rights as all other people is a negative comment.
I think using the Bible to justify blatant bigotry is a negative comment.
I think basing your allegiance to a party on your own hatred of those who are not like you is a negative comment.
Respect is earned, and Huckabee has earned none. We give officials who demean us titles like Governor or Senator, when the rightful titles they have earned are bastard and bitch.
Please give some examples of people who want Huckabee “thrown into prison for publicly expressing his beliefs.” I want names and citations.
You fear what might happen in the future. But if you provide the names I ask for, I will be pleased to produce examples of STATUTES that have ALREADY been PASSED in this country. Those statutes threatened to imprison people for engaging in what many ELECTED lawmakers BELIEVED to be “deviant” sexual behavior – behavior that they BELIEVED endangered the social fabric of this “Judeo-Christian” nation. This is what can happen, and has ALREADY happened in this democratic country, when religion is allowed into our public policy – Chritianity, Judeism, Islam…any religion.
Anxiously awaiting your response. And if you have a moment, please let us all know whether you think being gay or Lesbian ought to be a statutory crime.
Jed Ziggler:
Let’s put the same sex marriage issue aside for a moment to make a point.
What if people hated Governor Huckabee simply because he is a Christian? Would you say they have a right to hate him and defile him for simply being a Christian?
What if Atheists took over our government and said that all Christians were mentally imbalanced people, and needed to be made 2nd class citizens and sent to re-education centers, would you support such?
Hitler made the Jewish people non-citizens – not because of any sexual orientation – but because he and the Nazis considered Jews a sub-human being.
There are people in this country who may not think Christians are sub-human beings, but their hatred of them for other reasons is just as great.
So again, whose side would you take then? The Christians who have honestly held beliefs, or those who defile the Christians for holding such beliefs?
Bigotry can take both sides of any issue.
Again…citations, please.
Conservative Christians have demonstrably used legislation, in this country, to relegate homosexuals to second class citizenry and threaten imprisonment for being who they are, how they were born, and what they do as a consequence – in the privacy of their own homes in a supposedly free, democratic county.
You give us what might be in this country, and with no justification BTW, while there is incontestable proof of what actually HAS been in this country when religion has been allowed to become a part of our governmental policies.
Incidentally, please stop comparing liberals and atheists and non-Chrstians with Hitler and Nazis, would you? It’s patently offensive, unjustifiable, stupid, to boot. If you ever take even a brief break from feeling persecuted for being a Christian, do a little research on the pink triangle, and how it was used by the Nazis in concentration camps. You’ll learn that it apparently wasn’t sufficient for them to throw a Jew into a concentration camp for being Jewish, if that Jew happened also to be a “queer.” No, he or she was also forced to wear a pink triangle to revile them even further and label them as even “lower” than the lowly Jews.
Your paranoid rantings on imagined Christian persecution in America is pathetic. But maybe you can provide some empirical proof after all. So I ask again…give us some actual examples of people calling for Huckabee’s imprisonment because of his Christian beliefs?
AI, one can be Christian and support same-sex marriage. In no way is this or has this ever been a religious issue. And it’s funny you bring up Hitler, considering the number of gay people he killed in the holocaust.
Alabama –
Still waiting on those citations. Give us some names of those Americans who want to jail Christians for their beliefs.
Is there a cell of neo-Romans in this country we don’t know about?
1) Homosexuals were very strong supporters of Hitler and were a key element in the ” Brown Shirts ” which aided his rise to power. After he achieved power he eliminated them ( their leader was Ernst Rhohm ) as a potential threat which could betray him. The Homosexual/Sodomy Movement of that time was one of many contributing factors to the success of Hitler.
2) There is a continuing ( and now expanding ) movement to criminalize so-called ” hate speech,” i.e.; any opposition to perverts or what I refer to as the Homosexual/Sodomy Movement. Citing chapter and verse of such attacks means nothing to the perverts themselves as they will always deny their aims and lie regarding both their actions and, especially, their objectives. I have documented such objectives at CandleCrusade.org
3) No REAL Christian can support homosexuality or pervert marriage in any possible way except to pray for the recovery of the afflicted from their soul pathology.
4) There is no such thing as ” gay ” which is a marketing/Social Engineering term for homosexuality.
5) Homosexuality has nothing to do with DNA; i.e.; being born as a pervert. Rather homosexuality is a choice which arises from trauma within the family unit. It is an emotional and, especially, spiritual pathology.
6) What singular persons do in the privacy of their homes is one thing. When they work to form public policy to teach their pathology to children that is a completely different thing and something which must be challenged and stopped.
7) All government policy is based in some form on religion. The Homosexual/Sodomy Movement is working to replace the Christian foundations of our nation which their own religion of Satanism/Humanism/Atheism. They are as religious and more so in all of their actions as any of their Christian opponents.
8) Governor Huckabee is a brave American for working to defend the foundations of our culture, society, and nation. He is working to defend the children of the nation who are under attack by the Homosexual/Sodomy Movement.
Don –
If homosexuality is a choice, so is heterosexuality.
My questions for you are these –
How often each day do you confront your own personal choice to be a heterosexual?
Is the choice a difficult one for you?
Incidentally – Thank you for proving the points I have been trying to make with Alabama Independent. I strongly encourage you and Mike Huckabee and AI to form an independent party of bigoted jackasses. American voters will all benefit by being able to easily identify each of you, braying together in the same corral
TF – 1) Heterosexuality is natural, normal, and healthy. No choice is needed or occurs when you are not sick. 2) What of your own bigotry against normality? Why are you so hateful toward normal and healthy people? If you are fortunate enough to receive Grace from the Creator you can repent and be healed of your pathology.
So, then. let’s see. Healthy existence is natural and requires no choice but sickness is unhealthy and is a matter of choice.
I’ll try to remember that the next time I “choose” to catch the flu.
Thank you again, Don, for demonstrating so clearly why religion needs to be kept out of our governments. It is possible, of course, for normal, healthy religious people to act as public officials, informed by their religious views, in a way that represents ALL citizens. But then there are abnormal, unhealthy religious people like you who would wield their elected power to subjugate the rest of us to their perverse religious views.
I don’t hate sick, abnormal people like you, Don, I leave you to hate. But I do fear being governed by you and your bigoted ilk.
Now if you’ll excuse me I have to spend the rest of the day perfecting my gay conversion ray gun. Watch out – I’m coming to get YOU, baby.
(Alabama – are you reading what Don is preaching? How does it make you feel to be in the same pew as he? Proud?)
TruFoe:
I had earlier decided not to engage with your attacks on my beliefs. I was not going to get into an exchange of insults over an issue which appears now to be the “Law of the Land.”
However, Don Grundmann has put me to shame in not standing up sooner for those of us who attempt to look at this issue in a civil and Christ-like way. Thanks, Don, for helping to bring me to the conviction of my weakness.
But to TruFoe, I only want to say this. I do not need to give you names or citations of those who would love to see Christians like Governor Huckabee thrown into prison. But I will cite what Jesus said in Matthew 24:9: “Then they shall deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of my name.”
Now TruFoe, I like to think Jesus, who made this prophecy some 2,000 years ago, has a little more foreknowledge than either you or I. If Jesus knew Christians would be killed for their beliefs, then it stands to reason some of those same “Christian-haters” would love to see Christians placed into prison.
And to answer your question to if I believe being gay or Lesbian ought to be a statutory crime, I know it is going to disappoint you by my saying NO!
TruFoe, I have gay and lesbians as family members and former students. I do not hate any of them. I love those who are family members, and I remain having a good repore with many of my former students. I know this surprises you. They know where I stand and they respect such, and I respect their right to live their lifestyle, even if I think (and I have a right to think even if you don’t think so) their lifestyle is contrary to my understanding of the teachings of the Scriptures.
As I wrote earlier, Same Sex Marriage now appears to be the Law of the Land with the most recent Supreme Court decisions of the past week or two. So why can’t we all move on and respect each other’s right to believe as we do.
I have my belief. You have your belief. God will be the ultimate One who decides which of us is correct.
Meanwhile, let’s attempt to keep our exchanges on B.A.N. to ballot access news and the problems all 3rd parties and Independents are having in getting a fair opportunity to a position on the ballot through the nation.
AI –
As I have said in this thread, and in others before, and for over fifty years now, I don’t take issue with people’s right to believe anything, until they use the force of government to force others to live their lives, in a democratic nation, in accordance with the beliefs of someone else.
I did not invoke memories of Nazi Germany to fan the fear of groups of people who hold different beliefs than I. You did that, I’m afraid. And while we have, as a country, threatened people with imprisonment because of their sexual orientation, and have clearly denied them equal status as American citizens, I have not yet encountered anyone who has stated such a desire to toss Mike Huckabee in the clinker. I need something more than a quote from the Bible to get terribly concerned about any such possibility. Show me real evidence, however, and I will stand by YOUR side to resist such an effort.
Now, I am very surprised, and even more delighted, with the pace at which we now seem to be moving toward an acceptance of fellow citizens with differing sexual orientation as equals, deserving of all the rights we all should enjoy in this country. Huzzah! Once we all move on beyond this, as you suggest, we’ll eventually look back and wonder what all the fuss was about in the first place. Much as we do (most of us anyway, I hope) about the right of women to vote, for instance.
But using suffrage as an example, let’s remember that people also held strong, personal beliefs on both sides of that subject, too. When beliefs find their way into the public, political arena. it’s just not enough to say “This will be so because I believe it should be so, or my scriptures ay it’s so, and I’ve got a 51% majority to back me up” All of those debates have a place in this blog, IMO, once they are in that arena of politics.
Peace, baby.
“I need something more than a quote from the Bible to get terribly concerned about any such possibility.”
If the teachings of Jesus aren’t accepted by you, then what about recorded history? Did not the Roman leaders not only imprison Christians, but throw them to the lions? Or is this just someone’s paranoid imagination or a fairy tale?
I taught history. We historians, whether anyone else believes it or not, know “those who do not learn from their history are doomed to repeat it”
OK, I concede the point.
I’m more worried about Pharaoh, however.
“I’m more worried about Pharaoh, however.”
Who or what do you identify as Pharaoh? Of course, I am familiar with the one written of in the Old Testament. Is this a euphemism for our current political system? If so, you and I may have found something we both agree upon.
AI – I have heard of at least one case in both Canada and England where a pastor speaking out against the sodomites was arrested during their sermon and taken from the church due to complaints from the ” Human Rights Commission;” i.e.; the local Homosexual/Sodomy Movement mafia; that they were promoting ” hate speech. It is only a matter of time until such actions occur in our nation as the advance of speech suppression by the perverts/sodomites in our country is shown by a current WND article where Houston officials are demanding advance copies of sermons by pastors so as to suppress any opposition to the Homosexual/Sodomy Movement agenda. Only, at least to this moment, the Constitution Party will oppose such crushing of free speech. All other parties, ( Greens, Libertarians, Democrats ) except for the Christian faction of the Republicans, will be in total support of the Houston ( and any and all other ) officials as their primary enemy is Christianity, the last opposition to the attack of the Homosexual/Sodomy Movement upon humanity.
The demand by the officials of Houston (I understand such demand is lead by its mayor)is an affront to the First Amendment – regardless of the position one may take on the Same Sex Marriage issue.
What next – demanding of advance copies of pastors’ sermons when they preach that one may only come to God by Jesus Christ, and if they do not accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior they have rejected the only means of Salvation?
If we don’t stand for the First Amendment – regardless of where we stand on other issues – then freedom as we once knew it in this country is dead.