On May 24, Maine LD 176 became law. The legislature had passed it on May 5 and Governor Paul LePage let it become law without signing it, but also not vetoing it. Here is the text of the law. Maine already didn’t permit out-of-staters do witness signatures being made on the petition, but now they can’t even ask voters to sign it. There is a very high probability this law is unconstitutional. Thanks to Thomas MacMillan for the news.
This is blatantly unconstitutional. I hope somebody challenges this in court.
I think you are misreading the statute. The statute defines solicitation as a three-step process.
(1) Presentation. There are certain required actions, including giving the potential signer the opportunity to read the summary of the initiative and its fiscal note.
(2) Asking the voter to sign the petition.
(3) Witnessing the signing by the voter.
So a solicitor would:
(1) Show the petition to the voter and give them an opportunity to read the summary and fiscal note (ie make sure that the voter is making an informed decision). The voter might say, “I read about this online, I know enough”, and you could move to Step 2, or the voter might read the summary, and you could go to Step 2, or the voter might indicate disinterest or opposition, and the circulator would let them go on their way.
(2) “Would you like to sign this petition, ma’am (sir)”, as you hand them a pen, and place the petition sheet to where they may sign it.
(3) You watch them sign.
As part of the process, the circulator would also ascertain that the person is qualified to sign the petition, and either fill in the name of the signer and their address, or direct them to do so.
I think that you are construing a sign twirler whose sign reads, “Ban Moose Hunting” as asking someone to sign a petition.
Jim Riley must have never petitioned, or at least not for a living. The first thing you do is hand someone the clipboard and pen and ask them to help you out if they haven’t signed your petition already, and if they are a registered voter in that state (or a resident, in the states where you don’t have to be registered). If they still aren’t signing, give them a 5 second or less summary of the issue. If they still aren’t signing, tell hem it just puts it on the ballot so the voters can decide. If they still aren’t signing, go on to the next person. Tell them to do whatever research they need to do and come back when they are ready to sign.
It’s just freedom of speech and freedom of association so of course it’s unconstitutional to discriminate based on where you live. That should be a no-brainer. Amazing that some states are still allowed to discriminate like that. A three-legged puppy that just crossed the border from Mexico two minutes ago should be allowed to petition. Or a lightpole or store counter or any human being alive. And petitioning is not “soliciting” so give that nonsense a rest. Petitioning is just asking people to sign petitions. Soliciting is asking for money, being a prostitute or a lawyer.
A group petitions the government.
A circulator of a petition solicits a voter to sign the petition.
School boards all the time solicit bids to build facilities to educate children, some as young as 3 or 4. You certainly aren’t seriously suggesting that the school boards are prostitutes are you? Are you?
An initiative is act of legislation by the sovereign. It is a formal process that warrants state regulation.
You wouldn’t ask someone to sign a contract which they didn’t understand, would you? Or maybe you would. You are soliciting a voter to give their support to have a law placed on the ballot at a government-funded election. The law may have consequences. The signing of the petition should be based on informed consent by the signer.
A petition to repeal the 4th Amendment should not be signed on the basis of your spiel about being homeless and living out of your car, and “like do me a favor man!, I’m really hungry, its something to do with security and economic justice”
The petitioning by your three-legged puppy is something you should post on Youtube.
“School boards all the time solicit bids to build facilities to educate children,”
Yes, this involves asking for money in return for a service promised. Soliciting is asking for money, being a prostitute or a lawyer. They aren’t prostituting, and may or may not be lawyers, but the are asking for money unlike petitioners.
Petitioning is not soliciting and should never be treated as such.
As far as getting someone to sign…it just places the issue or candidate on the ballot, it is not a vote for or against. Once the issue is on the ballot do all the research you want, and all the persuasion you want if you feel strongly enough. But you get no choice if the issue is not on the ballot unless you are a legislator or a well connected person such as a lobbyist or major donor.
If you really feel strongly about doing research before you would even allow the voters to do the research and decide on an issue fine, go ahead and do it. I won’t stand around and explain or answer questions all day, otherwise I really would be hungry and sleeping in a car (with no gas to get that car anywhere or fix it when it breaks down) and the issue would never make the ballot.
Generally speaking if you are not signing within 5-10 seconds of being stopped, you probably won’t sign, and even if you do, you’ll keep me from talking to several other people that would have signed in the meantime. But if you are the exception who wants to stand there and read, and not interfere with other people signing by all means go ahead and do that; I have an extra copy for you, and if it has to be unfolded for you to read the full text, knock yourself out.
If you want to go home and look it up online or go vist the library, knock yourself out. No one is stopping you. Hopefully we’ll see you again after you have done your research. However, 9 times ot of 10 people who say they will go research it are just giving a bogus excuse and will never research anything about it.
You’re confused. Door-do-door salesmen, school boards, petition circulators, and streetwalkers solicit. Lawyers petition, and at least in some instances it is illegal for them to solicit.
If signatures were not of value to the sponsors of an initiative, they would not pay circulators to solicit ordinary folk on the street to sign the petition.
The fact that you make an assessment of your target, mark, or John (Hancock or Doe), before or while soliciting their signature does not mean that you are not soliciting. Streetwalkers, door-to-door salesmen, and school boards also make similar assessments.
Is the person likely to qualify? You probably consider age, and don’t approach someone who is 13. If a person appears unlikely to buy something, or has the door slammed in their face, the door-to-door salesman goes onto the next house. Streetwalkers will assess whether a potential customer is a undercover cop.
If I am opposed to the proposition, I would be unwise to help “just get it on the ballot”. I do understand that it may not be good business for a paid circulator that I wouldn’t blindly sign something. Someone selling candy bars on the street, doesn’t stress the chocolate or the cost, but that it will help them go to camp.
Anyway, we’re getting side tracked from the what the Maine legislation does. Its main purpose is to require the sponsor of an initiative to provide the names of petition circulators.
Since “circulators” is not really defined, it fleshed it out to mean that you present the petition to signers, ask them to sign, and witness the signing. It uses the verb solicit to describe those actions.
No, you are confused.
“Door-do-door salesmen, school boards,” Ask people for money, either in exchange for something or in exchange for the satisfaction of giving money. A signature isn’t money, and asking someone for a signature is not soliciting any more than asking someone what time it is or how they like the weather.
“Lawyers petition, and at least in some instances it is illegal for them to solicit.” Lawyers may petition the court, but they solicit clients. Thats what those ads for lawyers are about, or hanging out a shingle.
“If signatures were not of value to the sponsors of an initiative, they would not pay circulators to solicit ordinary folk on the street to sign the petition.” Red herring, irrelevant. Petitioners may solicit initiative sponsors for work, but they don’t solicit the general public, because they don’t ask people for money. If they are asking the public for money as well as signatures, then they are soliciting, but it is not because they are petitioning.
“soliciting their signature” Nope, a signature is not money, it is not solicited, and assessing the potential signer does not make it soliciting.
“If I am opposed to the proposition, I would be unwise to help “just get it on the ballot”.” You can’t vote against it if it’s not on the ballot, and unless you already 100% for sure know that you oppose it and absolutely, positively won’t change your mind no matter what, you won’t even get to decide if its not on the ballot. Since there is a limited time to gather a very large amount of signatures and limited opportunities when you may get a chance to sign, it is unwise to preclude yoursef and everyone else from having the opportunity to actualy study the issue at your leisure, when you have months to do it, as opposed to the much shorter time frame that you get to talk to a petitioner.
If everyone or even a large number of people insisted on studying the issue right then and there, which is not the best setting to do it anyway, nothing would get on the ballot and the whole point would be moot, and noone would bother to collect signatures because it would not pay for even a very minimal living or provide a volunteer with a sense of satisfaction that actualy getting something on the ballot gives.
On the other hand if you do get it on the ballot you have plenty of time to think it over and study it and then it actually makes sense to do so.
Do you also oppose candidates and parties that you don’t support being allowed to be on the ballot? If you were a legislator, would you filibuster every bill you wouldn’t vote yes on to try to prevent it from even coming up for a vote?
” Its main purpose is to require the sponsor of an initiative to provide the names of petition circulators.”
That should never be required, since there could be multiple circulators say if the petition is passed around from one person to another or left in a waiting room or store counter etc. But even if it were, there is no grounds for discrimination on the basis of where someone lives, any more than with any kind of speech. Asking someone to sign is just speech; it would be like outlawing protesters from crossing state lines or outlawing political ads to use any copanies that cross state lines. Not acceptablem and insane.
Also if someone does not have an address that does not mean they lose their free speech rights either.
If they travel full time they still have the right to speak, petition, protest, gather signatures, lobby politicians, etc.
“. It uses the verb solicit to describe those actions.” That contradicts numerous prior court decisions; petitioning is not soliciting and may not be treated as soliciting.
Synonyms for solicit:
ask for, request, seek, apply for, put in for, call for, press for, beg, plead for.
It is true that in some cases the person who is soliciting is asking the person being solicited to buy goods or services. But see Texas Election Code 43.007 for another use of solicit, that does not involve a monetary exchange, and might even be illegal if it did.
Hanging out a shingle or advertizing services is not soliciting. Contacting someone directly and asking if you may represent them is solicitation. In Texas, soliciting a crime victim or a person involved in an auto accident, when the information was obtained from a law enforcement agency is illegal.
A petition in California reads (in part):
“We, the undersigned, registered, qualified voters of California, residents of Modoc County, hereby propose amendments to the Constitution of California,
relating to the eradication of evil and petition the Secretary of State to submit the same to the voters of
California for their adoption or rejection at the next succeeding general election or at any special statewide election held prior to that general election or as otherwise
provided by law.”
Unless you sign that petition, you are not among the undersigned who are petitioning. And unless you are a registered voter of Modoc County you may not sign that petition, even if you are soliciting voters to sign that petition.
When you are circulating a petition, you are not petitioning the persons whose signature you are soliciting. You might use the term colloquially, “I was laying down my jive rap, petitioning the John Hancocks”, or a voter might say, “I was eating my lunch when this dude accosted and began to petition me, with some stuff about wanting to gut the Bill or Rights. These are not accurate.
If I am opposed to a change in the status quo, I don’t have to vote in order to maintain the status quo. If there were a petition to delete the last ten words of the 1st Amendment, would you sign it, would you circulate it? It just puts it on the ballot.
In Texas, it is much more common for a bill to fail to pass, due to missing deadlines or procedural matters, than being defeated on an up or down vote. Filibustering every bill is quite ineffective, and would garner a reputation as an obstructionist. If you filibustered against every bill you opposed, you would be assigned to the most obscure committee, and be given the most remote office. When you got up to speak, you would hear the the whistling of the the tune to Mr.Ed, and the speaker would recognized you with “Well Listen to This!”.
The sponsor of an initiative petition must register with the state. As part of that organization (under the new law) they must disclose their paid circulators.
If a single petition sheet were circulated by multiple persons, they could not (truthfully) swear that they had witnessed each signature. That is most likely what a circulator would be prosecuted for – lying under oath. It is not an unwarranted burden on the sponsors to document who they hired.
Maine already forbade the use of out-of-state circulators soliciting petition signatures. That was not changed by the new law. Whether that restriction is constitutional or not, is a totally different issue, and it was not changed by clarifying what circulators do when they solicit voters for signatures.
Read Pruneyard Shopping Center v. Robins, and then search in the decision for “solicit”. It does not say the petition circulators were not soliciting. It says that there solicitations did not significantly dilute the property rights of the owners of the shopping center.