On May 17, a New Jersey state trial court declined to remove LaMonica McIver from the Democratic primary ballot in the 10th district. She had been challenged on the basis that all of her 1,081 signatures were collected by one individual in approximately 72 hours. The challenger said it was not possible that one person could have collected that many, but there was no proof presented in court that the petitioner didn’t collect them all. See this story.
Why wouldn’t the actual circulators sign the affidavits, unless there weren’t circulators. Maybe they were round-tabled.
It’s possible, just not easy. I’ve gotten 200 unique signers in an hour before, just never for 5+ hours. And possibly because they subcontracted without campaign authorization, or the petitions got passed around. It’s not always a situation where one person is asking people to sign and getting the pages right back before giving them to someone else.
In 72 hours – very possible. I’ve done 1100 that in less time before, more than once.
Was Andy Gonzalez the petitioner?
If a candidate could make a deposit as a provisional filing fee, and submit signatures as well to get on the ballot, then, if his petition failed for whatever reason, the deposit could be treated as a filing fee to get on the ballot.
What does the circulator sign off say or require?
“Was Andy Gonzalez the petitioner?”
Possibly his accomplice Xaulie Banali …
It was error donderror.
Andy is the only one of those three who has petitioned in recent years.
Donderror runs fake charity fundraising drives and sells Trump merch, both of which are more lucrative than signature gathering.
Fraudankel has no ID to even rent a motel anymore, and developed social anxiety during the scamdemic which never went away. He has retired early and poor, no longer travels, doesn’t even talk on the phone, and has turned antipolitical. He doesn’t communicate except through text message, and believes politics should only be discussed on all fours.
That sounds like BS. I heard fraudankel sells prescription pills without a prescription now. He also has a girlfriend/scam partner with a bunch of kids and they scam various government assistance programs together, and she does online sex work and scams.
“but there was no proof presented in court that the petitioner didn’t collect them all”
But was there any proof that they did? “Innocent until proven guilty”, not “Guilty until proven innocent”. The onus of proof is on the challenger.
Innocent until proven guilty would mean the onus of proof would be on the challenger to prove one person couldn’t have collected the signatures.
You are correct.
Troll admits error? Wonders never cease.
Oh, what error are you admitting to, Roman wannabe Shukhevych?
The challenger is delusional for suggesting that it’s “not possible that one person could have collected” 1,081 signatures in 72 hours. There are 4320 minutes in 72 hours. Does the challenger think it takes a person 4+ minutes to sign something? It takes a few seconds.
@Q,
The circulator must swear that they witnessed each signature and that they believed the signer was qualified.
@PL,
The petition requires the signature, printed name, and address. Most of the time is spent locating signers, not executing signatures. It is conceivable that several people were recruiting signers and directing them to a signing table.
Only 200 valid signatures were needed. It is quite likely some were invalid – wrong district, not registered, fake name or address. But it would be hard to prove 800+ were bad. Actual evidence in the form of an affidavit from a signer that the circulator was a large male, rather than a small woman would be difficult.
This was a Hail Mary by a challenger to get the entire petition thrown out.
Since it is the apparent frontrunner being challenged, the other candidates may not be able to afford experienced election litigators.
Troll wannabe Nuna, I don’t know your name. If it’s Roman Shushwhatever, good for you.
Oh and the error you admitted was at 3:43, obviously. But being the troll that you are, maybe now you’ll claim you made none, even though you made and admitted it directly above.
Jim Riley – I think you misunderstood Q. Some signoffs, depending on the state, say that the person collecting signatures – it assumes there was only one on any given sheet – require signing in front of a notary. Some may require the person collecting to live in a certain jurisdiction, be a registered voter, or even be a registered voter of a jurisdiction. Some may require the person to leave contact information where they can be reached.
Most at a minimum require someone who is eligible to vote and, if they need a notary, has a valid state ID. Thus, no underage kids, non citizens, etc.
It’s entirely possible that someone signing off had help from people who did not fit these criteria. Or just someone who didn’t feel comfortable putting their name down as the person circulating a petition on official government paperwork.
You also seem to assume a table. Most petitioners get signatures walking around on foot and handing out clipboards, or just pieces of cardboard or foamboard or cut up yard sign with rubber bands to hold papers in place to make them more lightweight so they can carry more of them, and hand them out several at a time so several people can sign at once. Getting more people is typically done while others are in the middle of signing.
Sometimes, there is a table, or laundry board, and that also typically involves several people signing simultaneously and calling over other people while they are signing. That can also involve several people on the other side of the table ,sometimes with people switching in and out during the course of a day.
So, there’s all sorts of ways signature collection can happen that the signature gatherer sign off per page does not anticipate or provide for.
Troll Nuna’s ignorance exposed…
https://ballot-access.org/2024/05/16/illinois-republican-party-lawsuit-against-restricting-ballot-access-in-the-middle-of-the-campaign-season-is-set-for-may-17-friday/#comments
And here…
https://ballot-access.org/2024/05/08/cnn-fairly-lengthy-story-on-kennedy-ballot-access-progress/#comments
Video proof troll Nuna can’t pronounce Lugansk
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UsOXVJcPFLQ
Qed,
Part of troll nunya’s shtick is pretending that anyone who calls him or her out as a troll is all the same person, my friend Roman, who happened to be the first one here to call out Nunya for being a troll. Roma’s actual birth name is Roman, which is a common name in Russia. It has nothing to do with the Banderite whose first name also happened to be Roman, a piece of wishful thinking the Numya troll has been corrected about before, along with the silly notion that we are all the same person just because we are calling him or her out as a troll.
Banderite, in case you are wondering, is a Ukrainian fascist, which is certainly the side the Numya troll supports while pretending to support Russia in a grotesquely exaggerated way. Pronouncing “Luhansk” like the banderites was a dead giveaway, along with various hilarious follow ups. Let me know if you want to see those and I’ll dig up those threads and link them if you do.
ONE MORE EXAMPLE/REASON FOR ONE VOTER FORMS
Nah. Those make fraud easier, not harder.
@Qed,
I actually looked at the New Jersey petition form. You apparently did not (“in some states”).
In New Jersey, the circulator must be 18+, a US Citizen, and “not otherwise disqualified from voting under the State Constitution or election laws of New Jersey”. So you don’t have to be registered to vote, and you don’t have to live in the congressional district. You can’t be disqualified from being registered (e.g. a felon whose right to vote has not been restored). It is not clear whether a circulator must be a New Jersey resident or not. There has been litigation over this issue in some states. In all states, one is not qualified to vote if they are not resident in the state. Whether not being resident in New Jersey is a “disqualification” would be subject to a legal interpretation.
I used the word “swear” deliberately. The circulator would swear before a notary (or someone capable of administering oaths, which might be a judge, etc.)
In this particular case, the official circulator was the mother of the candidate, who is also the front runner. The candidate challenging the McIver petition, Brittany Claybrooks, is having her own petition challenged, allegedly with the backing of the NJ Democratic State Committee. Claybrooks is a regional campaign director for Andy Kim, whom you might remember was challenging the “county line” rule where candidates with official endorsement of the county party got preferred ballot position on primary ballots, while other candidates were sent to ballot Siberia.
65 of Claybrooks’ 352 signatures were stricken. In one instance there were several signatures from a single residence were apparently signed in identical handwriting. I don’t know if they were among the 65 stricken.
Claybrooks’ attorney in challenging the McIver petition claimed that 900+ of the 1052 signatures could not be verified as living in the district, did not write down their address, or were not registered to vote. He apparently could not prove (to a legal standard) that this was true, so apparently had tried to go after the entire petition as being fraudulent.
The evidence presented so far by the challengers to the McIver petition was that they had used multiple circulators over several days and had only managed to collect 352/810 signatures. At an evidentiary hearing, “we couldn’t do it, so they couldn’t possibly done it” is not evidence.
There had been a hearing on Thursday. And then on an e-mail chain on Thursday night, an aide to McIver had boasted that he had collected signatures, and that the other candidates were mad that McIver had gone into the senior projects and collected signatures (this might be illegal, but a Newark council president might have access). The aide, who had been at the Thursday hearing said that they were a waste of time and money. After his e-mail comments were published in a newspaper, the administrative judge re-opened the hearing. The aide who claimed that he had gathered signatures was not available.
The state of NJ interprets it as must be a registered voter when it comes to enforcement, regardless of whether it would hold up in court. At least, as of the last time I dealt with them, which was a few years back. Even if it’s someone merely eligible, that can exclude a lot of people, especially if they have to prove it, or swear to it. Those happen to be some of the best people at getting signatures, and most in need of the gig.
@Qed,
Imagine you are going to get into the Guinness Book of World Records for number of signatures collected in a short while. You know that you will have to swear that you “saw” the signings and believed the signers were qualified to sign. Further you want the name and address to be legible, so it is better to have the signers sitting down at a surface like a table or desk, and not standing up at an ironing board or while holding a clipboard. If you are going to do this for several hours, you would want to be sitting down. It makes sense to have assistants screening potential signers and sending them over to sign. You can “see” multiple signers and believe the signers are qualified (Under our imagined Guinness BOWR standards, the signers have to actually be qualified, not merely “believed” to be qualified, which is the legal standard in New Jersey).
Now it is possible that Mr. (or Mrs.) Qed might try for the record with numerous clipboards running around like a plate spinner to keep all clipboards in action, but I doubt others would do so.
The petition form in New Jersey has 16 pages, 10 pages of which are signature forms, 10 signatures per page, 100 total. There is one circulator attestation per 16-page packet. It is possible that Joe collected 37 signatures, and then Jill took over. She might have sworn that she saw all the signings. This would be false, and quite possibly perjury since she knew she had not seen all the signings. Whether a judge would accept all the signatures observed by Jill, and exclude the 37 by Joe, might depend on whether the judge and candidate are of the same party or not.
Several pages of the form, to be completed by the candidate, only have to be completed once.
LOL. I only did it all over the country for a living for over 20 years. You probably don’t need to teach me to petition (particularly since I’m done with it and moved on) or explain industry standards and how most petition pros do their jobs. I don’t know that any Guinness records are kept in the industry, but I could hold my own back when I did it for a living.
Incidentally, Qed is correct. That’s how most signatures are collected most of the time. Getting ideally legible signatures has to be balanced against not getting caught (most places don’t allow petitioning), getting around to finding the potential signers and getting them to stop, whether setting up a table is allowed even if petitioning is, what restrictions are placed as a condition of setting up a table, lugging a table and especially multiple chairs around, etc, etc.
Yeah, I’m not setting any records. Or getting too much into conversations with know it all’s.
That’s just over 15 signatures an hour or a signature every 4 minutes if she never slept. Assuming she worked 12 hours a day, that’s 30 signatures an hour or a signature every 2 minutes. It’s difficult, but possible. I would like to know how she did it, though.
I should mention, in case it wasn’t obvious for previous comment, I’ve done lots of petitioning. I’m not sure how much petitioning Jim Riley has done. You get used to being on your feet 12, 16, 24, or even more hours at a time. My personal longest time was just a hair over exactly 100 hours without breaks or tables once.
30 an hour is very possible, as FP and I mentioned. FP mentioned getting 200 in an hour. I’ve done 150 in an hour before. I’ve had 8+ hour days when I averaged close to 100 an hour – colleges, festivals, transit hubs, etc. On district petitions you have to choose between most of those being invalid or going a lot slower.
As mentioned earlier I’ve done those numbers before, although not on district petitions. But a lot of petitioning doesn’t fit neatly into the model where one person has the petition booklets the whole time, or even for any block of signatures. It may technically be perjury to sign off on those, but there’s no practical alternative
SIGS GOTTEN IN FRONT OF 24 HOUR FOOD STORE ???
*Yawn*. Thanks for linking to your previous trolling, “Perun” worshipper, but it won’t be necessary. Your comments exposing your complete ignorance about Luhansk where you pretend to have fought and Transnistria where you pretend to have family from, were already archived for use in your tribunal the moment you posted them. It will be gratifying to watch you sent to hell to reunite with your father Satan Bandera.
And if you look at 3:43, there is clearly no admission of error, since there was no error to admit. There is only a confirmation towards Pete that he is indeed saying the same thing as I had said: that the onus is on the challenger, not on McIver.
I don’t pretend any such thing, troll. Roman is, yet again, not me, and his mom is from a different part of Moldova/Moldavia, not Transnistria. Maybe he has some other family there, but not that I know of. Just like your disinformation about what you said directly above, your ignorance and trolling is exposed at the links, if anyone reading cares.
You might be off the hook because quite possibly nobody does. Unlike you (presumably) and Roman, I do not believe in your Satan, and if there is a Banderite here, it’s you. The YouTube link probably wouldn’t mean anything to you LOL.
There’s cities where you can find busy locations any time of day or night – NYC, DC, Vegas, etc.
GZ – that’s way more attention than the troll deserves. Links speak for themselves 🙂
HOW MANY DRUGS REQUIRED TO STAY AWAKE AFTER ABOUT 30 HOURS AWAKE ???
SEE OLDE METH USED BY NAZIS IN WW II TO KEEP FIGHTING FOR DAYS.
YouTube video is too difficult for troll. Try this.
https://gorod-lugansk.com/
Regarding the screaming bot’s incorrectly phrased question. While it’s better ignored altogether, it may not be the only one jumping to similar conclusions. These tend to come from not understanding how osychoactive drugs actually work.
They work by triggering naturally occurring brain chemicals which already get triggered in any human’s brain naturally by a variety of factors – panic, fight or flight, excitement, etc. People can work themselves into states of frenzy which seem just like someone on large amount of drugs without drugs, because they cooked their own inside their brain and did not need an outside supplier.
Similarly, most people would be astounded, in many ways, at what they can do if they learn to trigger the release of certain brain chemicals at certain levels, which can actually be learned. In the right mind frame, you (that’s you reading) can probably lift an average passenger vehicle’s front or back end up with your bare hands and hold it in the air for a while, for example, without a long prelude of physical strength training. However, very few people know how to put themselves in that mind frame if and when they want to.
The mind can be trained to do things most people think are impossible, just like the body. Or, it can accidentally stumble on a state in which the body can do things it normally can’t, but without knowing how to replicate it. That’s not to say this happened here – there are much more likely explanations, for example having a bunch of assistants, or being in good with a bunch of pastors and activities directors at senior centers and nursing homes, for instance. But there’s no proof exactly what did or didn’t happen from just the numbers alone.
The attorney representing one of candidates challenging the McIver petition has asked the Secretary of State to reject McIver’s candidacy.
https://newjerseyglobe.com/judiciary/judge-accused-of-mishandling-challenge-to-mciver-petitions/
The hearings last week were not before a trial court, but rather were challenges to the petition heard by an administrative judge. The filing deadline was May 10, so the petition challenges were being heard in the next week (last week).
The Secretary of State will now certify the candidates for the July 16 special primary, based on the rulings of the administrative judges. It is possible that this will then be challenged in the civil courts.
@ Alabama Rigger
Pankel Fraudankel is reportedly playing 52 pick up all day in county jail for his 52nd birthday today.
Meanwhile, independentpoliticalreport.com is having a bittersweet 16, having long since been double teamed by George from Philly and his pet tranny.
Eugene Mazo, a third candidate in the race has survived a petition challenge.
https://newjerseyglobe.com/congress/gene-mazo-survives-petition-challenge-in-nj-10-special-election/
It appears that the challenges to the three candidates were heard by three different administrative judges. Two of three cases had extensive challenges. Mazo’s candidacy barely survived when 43 of his 243 signatures were struck leaving him with the bare minimum of 200. Mazo’s petition was challenged by the co-director of the New Jersey Democratic State Committee.
Brittany Claybrooks who was challenging the LaMonica McIver petition had her petition challenged. The attorney for the challenge to the Claybrooks and Mazo petitions was Raj Parikh, so I suspect that the State party was behind the challenge to Claybrooks.
Claybrooks is associated with Andy Kim who is running for the US Senate seat currently held by Bob Menendez. Menendez is not running for re-election as he focuses on his trial for bribery. Kim successfully challenged the county line rule, where candidates favored by the official party apparatus were given preferable placement on the ballot. Kim had entered the Senate race the day after Menendez was indicted, without notifying the state or county Democratic parties. Tammy Murphy, wife of Governor Phil Murphy, had entered the race and would have been given the preferred ballot position. Murphy withdrew after Kim was successful.
LaMonica McIver is the party candidate in the special primary election, so there may be asymmetry in how the petition challenges were handled.
Eugene Mazo is noted for his past challenges to New Jersey candidate slogan laws, which have been blogged on BAN. For example.
https://ballot-access.org/2020/07/02/federal-lawsuit-filed-over-new-jersey-limits-to-political-slogans-on-primary-ballots/
In the upcoming primary, Mazo sought to use the slogans
“Vladimir Putin Is A Murderous Warmonger”, “Xi Jinping Will Destroy Taiwan”, and “The James Bond of Newark”
The Board of Elections did not let him use these slogans, reasoning that Putin and Xi had not permitted him to use their names. He will instead run under the slogans, “Essex County Democratic Commission, Inc.”, “Hudson County Democratic Corporation”, and “Normal Democratic Organization of Union Count”, since none of these organizations exist in reality.
What a buffoon. President Putin stopped a biowarfare attack on the whole world far worse than the covid dry run with the special operation.
The Secretary of State ordered the Administrative Law Judge to review her earlier decision that the text messages with a claim that one person had not circulated all the petitions.
https://newjerseyglobe.com/congress/way-moves-nj-10-certification-date/
But a second e-mail exchange was submitted, where McIver’s aide who had earlier boasted of collecting signatures said that he “lied and misspoke”
https://newjerseyglobe.com/congress/mciver-aide-says-he-lied-about-getting-petition-signatures/
The administrative law judge ruled that none of the e-mail can be trusted.
Sounds like the administrative judge has a predetermined outcome and is working backwards.