Berg v Obama Decision Only Deals with Standing, Says Nothing About the Facts Concerning Obama Citizenship

Posted on by October 27, 2008

On Friday, October 24, a U.S. District Court in Philadelphia released its opinion in Berg v Obama, civ 08-4083. Plaintiff Philip Berg had filed the lawsuit in August 2008, alleging that Barack Obama is not a natural-born citizen. The decision is here. It is 34 pages, but only deals with whether Berg has standing. The decision says he does not have standing. BAN regrets the Friday posting saying that the decision had made a finding about the factual dispute.

Comments

Berg v Obama Decision Only Deals with Standing, Says Nothing About the Facts Concerning Obama Citizenship — 108 Comments

  2. Richard:
    I took a quick read of the decision. I have not studied law, but I can follow most of it. Based on what was said there, do you see how anyone could have standing to file such a complaint, or could you imagine a situation in which Obama’s eligibility to be President could be challenged? (Note, I don’t think it should be, I’m just wondering about the law).
    -Lemur

  5. FLOOD GRETA’s AND HANNITY’S EMAIL.

    THEY MUST INTERVIEW PHILIP BERG NOW!!!!

    THIS STORY MUST BE BROKEN TO THE MAIN STREAM MEDIA!!!!

    IT IS TIME FOR ALL GOOD AMERICANS TO COME TOGETHER TO PROTECT OUR CONSTITUTION!!!!

    EMAIL AWAY MY FRIENDS!!!!!

    SEND 100,000 EMAILS!!!

    http://WWW.OBAMACRIMES.COM

  7. The simple fact that is that standing is de facto *&* de jure required for a case to even begin to have “merit.” No standing, no merit, period. Berg’s case was dismissed because it had no merit due to his having no legal standing to sue.

    In addition you’ll notice the judge specifically made a point about Berg having suffered no actual injury, which specifically goes to “merit” of the case. No injury, no merit. Just that simple.

    My bet is that the USSC will refuse even to hear the case at all, just as they did with the GOP lawsuit in OH. (A conservative court, & unanimously, if you recall.) When that happens, this & associated cases will be done. The pleadings are totally absurd just on the face of them. The politics of desperation; only the blindest ideologue would believe otherwise.

  8. In Robinson v Bowen, a U.S. District Court Judge in San Francisco said this year that even if a presidential candidate does not meet the constitutional qualifications, he or she should still be on the ballot. Congress makes a determination of whether someone meets the constitutional qualifications in January after the election, when it counts electoral votes. Congress is free to reject electoral votes if they were cast for someone who isn’t qualified. Congress exercised that power in 1873, when it refused to count the electoral votes cast for Horace Greeley.

  9. Republican supporters still wasting their time on a non-subject. How well do you think this one is playing with ‘Independents’ – I have a feeling I can guess… There were idiots contesting McCain’s right to stand but at least they worked out when their fox had been shot!

  10. people are also challenging the related seating of presidential electors in state courts — before the electoral college meets and Congress does its statutary duty.

  13. Re: “Do you see how anyone could have standing to file such a complaint….?”

    Yes. I think McCain could file it. But he would have to present evidence to win. A brief review of the dismissal shows that the “evidence” Berg filed was just crazy — just articles.

    And he claims that Obama has to prove that he is a citizen, where if the case were decided on its merits, it would only be decided on any evidence that Obama were NOT a natural born citizen.

    Does anyone have any evidence that Obama is not a natural born citizen? I’ve read at some blogs that someone claims to have an audio tape from someone who claims to be his paternal grandmother in Kenya who claims to have been there at his birth. But how can you prove from an audio tape that that old lady is really his grandmother?

    Anythinge else, other than some people think that the Hawaii certificat of live birth may have been forged? And no official of the Hawaii government has commented on that. If that document were a forgery, they would be launching an investigation.

    Not much evidence.

  14. Frankly, this seems a bit like GOP partisan spin and less a concern about the Constitution or having free and fair elections.

    Everything that I have ever seen or read has stated that he was born in Honolulu, Hawaii.

    Up until this point I do not recall any Democrat or Republican or Independent publicly suggesting that he was not born in the United States.

    I might give the accusation a bit more credibility if it was not being raised, near the end of the election and being pushed only by ultra-conservative, if not a bit racist, advocates.

    Personally, as I proposed in my Political Liberty Amendment, I think that this provision of the Constitution should be changed, but should be followed until such time.

  15. lol, this suit was brough forth by a long time Democrat, no Republican spin:

    Berg is a former Deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania; former candidate for Governor and U.S. Senate in Democratic Primaries; former Chair of the Democratic Party in Montgomery County; former member of Democratic State Committee; an attorney with offices in Montgomery County, PA and an active practice in Philadelphia, PA,

  16. Focusing on the Indonesian citizenship from his childhood, if he cannot produce documentation showing a renouncement of his Indonesian citizenship and oath of allegience to the United States, then this is actually a matter for INS. He is actually an illegal allien subject to deportation without verifiable citizenship documentation. I would also think that his current US passport would have been obtained fraudulently if his US citizenship has not been re-established. It would apprear that he skipped the oath and just simply used the COLB from Hawaii to get the passport without informing anyone that he is actually an Indonesion citizen.

    Should we all be sending requests to INS requesting investigation and deportation?

  17. First of all, let me say that there is no merit to Mr Berg’s charges unless he’s got MUCH better proof than wikipedia and supposition.

    The judge’s decision was absolutely correct and totally unsurprising. Taxpayers can’t sue because they don’t want their tax $s used for something they don’t like. The courts would do nothing but litigate such suits. For example a Guantanamo prisoner can sue over his treatment, but you can’t sue because you don’t want torture done in your name. The remedy is in the electoral process.

    I don’t think McCain can sue. Aside from having to prove that Obama was ineligible he’d have to prove that he would have beaten him otherwise.

    As I said earlier, even if there were merit, no judge is going to overturn the votes cast by the people.

    I hope though that the right-wing folks spend the next 4 years on this. That will ensure their utter anhiliation next time.

  18. choprzrul:

    Indonesian citizenship has nothing to do with this. You only lose US citizenship by renouncing it in front of a US consular officer. Since Obama was 10 years old at the time you would have to argue that he made a knowing renunciation and that a consular officer accepted it. If that happened, where is the proof?

    Here are the facts from th US State Department

    http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

    Endlessly repeating the same lies doesn’t make them true.

  19. Why is everyone glossing over the assertion that he has produced what may be a fraudulent birth certificate? Why is that not brought before the courts?

  20. Foreign male wartime ENEMIES, pirates / terrorists and slave owners dump their 9 month full term pregnant sex slaves (American and Foreign) who give birth the second they are in the U.S.A. area.

    Are the kids magically *natural born* citizens of the U.S.A. ???

    Same story with Foreign voluntary temporary visitors — i.e. Obama’s father in 1961 allegedly in Hawaii ???

    Same story with Foreign ILLEGAL folks in the U.S.A. — aka Illegal Aliens ???

    See 14th Amdt, Sec. 1.

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. ****

    See 20th Amdt, Sec. 3.

    If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, [[[ or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify]]], then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein [[[neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified]]], declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.

    Wake up the Supremes — now in session.

  21. Mr. Reality:

    I am assuming that I don’t need to point out that trying to apply the law as it stands today does not work when evaluating the situation as it stood in the period circa 1965-1972. At that time, a minor’s status mirrored the status of the guardian parent (his mother at the time). This isn’t about whether Barak ever changed his citizenship, it is about whether his mother changed her citizenship, and thereby his changed along with hers.

    Please explain the well documented Indonesian school enrollment. Indonesia at the time would not allow ANYONE who was not an Indonesian citizen AND a Muslim to enroll in their schools. Furthermore, Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship. Therefore, any logical person can arrive at the determination that Barak was indeed an Indonesian citizen at the time.

    Now that we have the background cleared up, perhaps MR Reality can offer some thought provoking insight on how Mr. Obama is not an illegal allien.

  22. Norm,

    The reason the birth certificate has not been brought before the courts is because there is no credible evidence that suggests that the birth certificate is a forgery.

  23. choprzul:

    Everything I said is supported by a link to an authoritative web site. Not a single one of your assertions is so documented. Furthermore, where is the proof that Ms Dunham renounced her citizenship? She worked for USAID while in Indonesia, which suggests she was a US citizen. Also keep in mind that all laws are subject to court interpretation, so you should site specific court cases that showed a court ever upheld stripping a child of citizenship.

  24. Stine:

    There is also no credible evidence (such as a certified copy of the original certificate generated at the hospital) that suggests that the COLB is real.

    You also need to understand that what was posted on Baraks website is NOT a birth certificate. It is a Certification of Live Birth. If you are born in a taxi cab on the way to the hospital, or perhaps in Kenya; a COLB request will generate this type of document. What is being requested for verification is a state certified copy of the original document that was generated by a hosipital in the US.

  25. choprzrul:

    By the way your assertion about needing to be a Muslim to attend school in Indonesia is blatantly false. The island of Bali, part of Indonesia, is largely Hindu and they go to school. East Timor, which is now independent, was part of Indonesia at the time and is almost 100% Catholic and they had schools there as well.

  26. Still there is one compelling fact to this Obama issue.

    In 1981, Obama traveled to Pakistan.

    The only problem with this is that US citizens were forbidden from going into Pakistan 1981.

    So how did Obama get in?

    Answer – He used an Indonesian Passport.

    That is because he was Indonesian and was able to get one because he was an Indonesian citizen.

    It remains to be seen how Obama could have visited Pakistan when it was forbidden to US Citizens.

    What was Obama doing in Pakistan if he was supposely a US citizen and was forbidden to go to the country.

    This is one of many issues that need to sorted out by the court to determine what Obama’s true citizenship really is.

  27. James: US citizens are forbidden to go to Cuba and have been for 40 years. Yet thousands have gone using US passports. You could do it tomorrow; just go to Canada and fly to Cuba. The Cubans are happy to let you in and will even put the entry stamp on a detachable page. You tear it out in Canada before re-entering the US.

  28. Indonesia does allow for Dual citizenship. Obama could not have gotten and Indonesia passport unless he was truly an Indonesian citizen.

  29. James: Did you hear me? Where is the evidence Obama has or ever had an Indonesian passport? Where?

    And what is your expertise on Indonesian citizenship law?

  30. The problem with entering Pakistan at the time was that it was under the rule of some dictor general. Americans were VERY unwelcome at that time. Our own CIA had significant difficulty operating in that theater at the time. Only significant arms dealing for defense of the Pakistani’s and distribution to the Afghans fighting the Russians secured our operatives with permission to be there. Pakistan was certainly not a tourist destination in the early 80’s for anyone with an American passport. But yet you contend that a young Barak just hopped on a plane and did a 3 week spring break type of thing in Pakistan. Is that the Reality that you are living in? Even now, could you see any situation where a 20 year old US citizen would jump on a plane to tour Pakistan? Why don’t you head over there and take a 3 week vacation? You know, walk around, take in the ambience of an exotic middle eastern country, get to know the locals, and so on. No big deal, its been 27 years now since Barak was there, it is surely safe since a 20 year old Barak could do it.

  31. It also believed that Obama’s true orgins are probably contained in his colleges papers. That is why he has had them sealed. His college papers probably would reveal that he was born in Kenya or may been foreigner. (That’s how he could have gotten financial aid)

  32. One Thing is certain. The lawyer Philip Berg is 99.9% sure that Obama is NOT Natural Born and if he could ever get standing there is good chance he could prove it to the court. The fact that Obama has taken steps to seal anything that might indicate his orgins is HIGHLY suspect. Obama is hiding something. It is likely he is hiding the fact that he is NOT a natural born citizen.

  33. James,

    It is really simple: he was and still is actually a citizen of Indonesia. He used the COLB from Hawaii to obtain a US passport without revealing his actual citizenship status with Indonesia. Now he and his minions are using those documents to redirect focus away from Reality.

  34. James: You are ridiculous. Berg is 99.9% sure that the US Government conducted the 9-11 attacks. He has been sanctioned by judges regarding his ridiculous lawsuits over that.

    Funny how you guys spout nonsense as though it were fact and never produce evidence to support it.

    I’m really enjoying this. Keep it up through all 8 years of the Obama administration!

  35. I agree! Like I said, any documents that give an insight on Obama’s true orgins have been sealed.

    He is hiding something.

    If Obama wins, we will actually be putting a person in the White House who a NOT a natural Born Citizen.

    This will be the first step our country will take in corrupting our Constitution and it will be further corrupted under Obama.

  38. Your turn to show evidence that his Indonesian citizenship has been changed back to US citizenship.

  40. The reality is that Mr. Reality has no way to show that Mr. Obama’s citizenship has been changed back to the US.

  41. You’re joking right? I linked to the official US State Department web site and you are linking to a blog.

    Link me to official government sites that show US citizenship law and Indonesian citizen laws. Link me to US court decisions depriving any US citizen of their birthright.

    I won’t hold my breath.

  42. Per smrstrauss: “A brief review of the dismissal shows that the ‘evidence’ Berg filed was just crazy — just articles. And he claims that Obama has to prove that he is a citizen, where if the case were decided on its merits, it would only be decided on any evidence that Obama were NOT a natural born citizen.”

    Precisely. One would think that anyone (such as Berg’s supporters & water-carriers) who claims to love America would be a little more up on its laws before broadcasting their gross ignorance in public for all to see. People are howling about “the merits, the merits, the MERITS!!” when in fact they appear to know less than nothing about the “merits” of either the case *or* the law. Anyone with one eye & half a brain (& an honest approach, of course, which definitely seems to be conspicuous by its absence) should be able to see how flawed Berg’s “case” is.

    My dear ol’ granddaddy, rest his soul, always liked to say “To be righteous one must first be right.” A little hard for folks like Berg (*&* his rank amateur cheerleaders) to carry off righteousness when they can’t even meet its first & foremost requirement. -snicker-

  44. Per James: “This will be the first step our country will take in corrupting our Constitution”

    Sorry, old son — that honor’s already been awarded, & Dubya retired the trophy as soon as it was unveiled.

    (BTW, before anyone opens their fingers to try to shout me down, know that I was campaigning Republican before the vast majority of today’s whiners were even even born. If you want to see what a *real* Republican thought of today’s wanna-be’s, I refer you to Barry Goldwater, who was more of a true Republican in his sleep than any 5 of today’s neoncons are on their most awake days.)

  45. Keeping in mind that the law circa 1965 held that a minor child’s status mirrored that of the guardian parent, please refenence the below information:

    The Department of State is responsible for determining the citizenship status of a person located outside the United States or in connection with the application for a U.S. passport while in the United States.

    POTENTIALLY EXPATRIATING ACTS

    Section 349 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1481), as amended, states that U.S. citizens are subject to loss of citizenship if they perform certain specified acts voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship. Briefly stated, these acts include:
    obtaining naturalization in a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (1) INA);
    taking an oath, affirmation or other formal declaration to a foreign state or its political subdivisions (Sec. 349 (a) (2) INA);
    entering or serving in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities against the U.S. or serving as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer in the armed forces of a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (3) INA);
    accepting employment with a foreign government if (a) one has the nationality of that foreign state or (b) an oath or declaration of allegiance is required in accepting the position (Sec. 349 (a) (4) INA);
    formally renouncing U.S. citizenship before a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer outside the United States (sec. 349 (a) (5) INA);
    formally renouncing U.S. citizenship within the U.S. (but only under strict, narrow statutory conditions) (Sec. 349 (a) (6) INA);
    conviction for an act of treason (Sec. 349 (a) (7) INA).

    Obtained from travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html

    It is quite obvious to the non-blind that a young Barak’s status changed via his mother’s change of status. It is also quite obvious that without supporting documentation stating otherwise, that he is now an illegal allien.

    Once again, I beg you Mr. Reality to show me evidence where Barak has re-established US citizenship.

  46. Bill: Amen. And Goldwater’s grandchildren endorsed guess who?
    Hint: Not their home-state senator.

  47. Per choperz: “The reality is that Mr. Reality has no way to show that Mr. Obama’s citizenship has been changed back to the US.”

    Nor do you that it was changed *from* US to begin with. Oh, wait, you do have proof? I’m sorry, what was that again? Oh, because Berg said so? Some “evidence” that is. }:)

    BTW, you *are* aware that in this country the burden of proof is on the *prosecution*, are you not? No evidence, no proof. No proof, no guilt. Case dismissed, next case. Thanks for playing.

  48. From the State Department web site:

    F. RENUNCIATION FOR MINOR CHILDREN

    Parents cannot renounce U.S. citizenship on behalf of their minor children. Before an oath of renunciation will be administered under Section 349(a)(5) of the INA, a person under the age of eighteen must convince a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer that he/she fully understands the nature and consequences of the oath of renunciation, is not subject to duress or undue influence, and is voluntarily seeking to renounce his/her U.S. citizenship.

    He never re-established US Citizenship because he never lost it. Soft of like you can’t re-marry if you never got divorced.

  49. Per MrR: “Bill: Amen. And Goldwater’s grandchildren endorsed guess who? Hint: Not their home-state senator.”

    Precisely. It may grind today’s “Republicans” knickers into several very severe knots, but facts are facts. I’ll wager these folks never even *heard* of Berg before this. He’s a nutball from wayyyyy back.

  50. Mr. Reality,

    New school assignment: use the nifty tool known as Google and do a search for “associated press photo barak indonesian school enrollment” Image results will be on the top of the list for your review. Clearly shows Indonesian school enrollment.

    Your turn, show me the re-establishment of citizenship evidence.

  52. choprzul: Read post #46. Only a declaration before a US consular officer counts. Indonesian school enrollment is meaningless even if it were authentic.

    You have no conception of legal concepts like “burden of proof” and ‘rules of evidence”.

    For the final time Obama did not re-establish citizenship because HE NEVER LOST IT!

  53. “…State children of Indonesia include: (viii) children who are born outside of legal marriage from foreign State citizen mother who are acknowledged by father who is Indonesian State citizen as his children and that acknowledgment is made prior to children reaching 18 years of age or prior to marriage; Republic of Indonesia Constitution, 1945.” Furthermore, under Indonesian law, if a resident Indonesian citizen married a foreigner-in this case, Lolo Soetoro marrying Sta nley Ann Obama-she was required to renounce her US citizenship.

  54. I for one plan to laugh my keister off when the USSC blows Berg off without even a hearing, same as they did for the OH GOP last week. It must have galled Wubya something horrid when not even Robert, Thomas, Alito, nor Scalia would allow so blatant an attempt at *real* voter fraud (as opposed to supposed voter *registration* fraud, which is what they were alleging) to be given the credence of having the case heard.

    Face it, kiddies — Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, & Wile E. Coyote have never voted. And with the demands of photo ID at the polls, they’d be kicked out even if they tried (unless, of course, *they* could show a birth certificate & could prove their middle initials were correct! laugh). You got the stringent ID checks you wanted; a little late to try to ignore the requirements you had put in place just so you can whine about bogus voting. -snicker-

  56. Per choperz: “…State children of Indonesia include: (viii) children who are born outside of legal marriage from foreign State citizen mother who are acknowledged by father who is Indonesian….”

    Uh, you do know that quoting statute does not constitute evidence of what you claim, correct? You’re mega-big on requiring a higher standard of others than you’re willing to adhere to yourself. Got proof? OK, show it. And I’m talking about the same level of proof that you yourself are requiring. }}:)

    “Sauce for the goose,” or else BITOYA

  57. “Obama is Kenyan. His countrymen say it all.”

    Nope, doesn’t mean jack. He is, in point of fact, a US Senator. Can’t be a US Senator if you’re a foreign citizewn, & a Senator he in fact is, thus QED. Nice try, but not even close to a banana, sorry.

  58. (Bill Nichols Says:….October 27th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
    …… ..Face it, kiddies — Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, & Wile E. Coyote)
    This is a kind of language when fanatics of obamagod are being threatened to face the fact-finding truth and they have nothing logical to say. The kind of people who would unquestinably drink the Kool-Aid (Jim-Jones flavor) or maybe those who want to chase and join the comet.

  59. Barry Soetero adopted son of Lol Sotero. Barry got a half-sister to prove it at the primary convention. He became an Indonsian and grew up in Muslim family. Barry lied to Illinois Bar. OBAMA as Kenyan born http://www.usafricaonline.com/barackbama08usafrica.gif
    In 1981, his mother came back to Hawaii and filed a divorce. From State of Hawaii Court :
    http://hoohiki1.courts.state.hi.us/jud/Hoohiki/main.htm?spawn=1
    and enter case ID#—>1DV00-0-117619
    Officially, Barry’s mother Ann Dunham Soetero never had use Obama as
    her last name. That would had made her a bigamous partner of Obama
    Sr.

  60. “Lolo Soetoro marrying Sta nley Ann Obama-she was required to renounce her US citizenship.”

    Provide a US State Department document proving she renounced her US citizenship. In any event, that has no effect on Senator Obama’s citizenship as per US law (see US State Department document in post #48).

    Kenya and/or Indonesia may consider Mr Obama citizens of their country. That’s up to their laws. That has no effect on his US citizenship. Millions of Americans (almost anyone with a foreign-born parent or even grandparent) may potentially be citizens of other countries. They are still US citizens.

  62. Per verburn: “This is a kind of language when fanatics of obamagod are being threatened to face the fact-finding truth”

    Oh, yeah, sure, you caught me, I admit it. I campaigned for the Goldwater/Miller ticket in ’64. (You may not remember them; I’m guessing they were probably before your time. ) I’m against gun control & for the death penalty. That makes me a die-hard bleeding-heart “fanatic of obamagod.” Oh, yeah, I almost forgot — I’m Czar of all the Russias too. “Yeah, right….” Kids these days, I swear.

    Sorry, little one, but you wayyy overplayed your hand trying that one against the old man. -chuckle-

  63. “did everyone here sign this and pass it on in emails to others?”

    Not if they had any brains & didn’t want to show their Congresscritter what bloody fools they were. }}:)

    Riddle me this — if this is such a Legitmate Major Constitutional Issue, why then has not one single solitary major voice come out about it?

    Yeah, I didn’t *think* there’d be an answer for that. *I* can give you one, although I warn you in advance — be aware that it doesn’t support the conspiracy theory du jour. }}:)

    They haven’t because they know it’s not true. Let’s think about this for a semi-nanosecond & apply our brains, shall we? (Those of us who actually keep them turned on all the time, of course. )

    Exactly how likely is it that of allllll the Very Bright People in Congress (& many with an axe to grind against Obama), not even one is bright enough to think this out over the last 5-6 years, yet some backwater ambulance-chaser who happens to be an extremely disgruntled knows more than ALL of them?

    That’s right — “Not Very.”

  64. Per MrR: “Provide a US State Department document proving she renounced her US citizenship.”

    I do hope you’re not holding your breath waiting. I’d hate for the little guy to be responsible for your keeling over from hypoxia.

  65. Per moi: “an extremely disgruntled knows”

    My bad — arthritis fingers ctrl-x’d a couple of words. BAD fingers, no coffee. 😛 Instead of the above, put in place the following: “….an extremely disgruntled Clintonista knows…”

  66. Bill: Don’t worry. I never hold my breath waiting for idiots to provide documentary evidence. The whole idea of supporting arguments with facts is completely beyond them.

  68. Per MrR: “…never hold my breath waiting for idiots to provide documentary evidence. The whole idea of supporting arguments with facts is completely beyond them.”

    Nah, don’t give him so much credit — he’s not an idiot, just a troll. When you live under a bridge & take even a *small* peek out into the sunlight just every now & then, your brain still turns to stone, y’know.

  69. “Stop the Obama Constitutional Crisis”

    Amazing. Such a short day, & yet so many gullibles…..

  70. I am more in favor of deporting a certain radical from south of the border: John McCain. Read up on his Panama Canalese heritage.

  71. it looks like Bill Nichols doesn’t like for people to fight for what they believe in, he makes fun of people for protecting the constitution and signing the petititon. How very Obama of you. Why don’t you let the courts decide if Obama is born here.
    After all we’ve uncovered a BIGGER problem of the courts saying NO ONE , NONE OF US have “STANDING” to challenge this which is wrong, ridiculous and dangerous.

    Have Obama put this to rest: release college records, produce a birth certificate , show us a U.S. passport not the Indonesian one he traveled with.

    I am with the others everyone should creat a fire storm and force an answer please meial to everyone this link:
    http://www.rallycongress.com/constitutional-qualification/1244/stop-obama-constitutional-crisis/

    45,150 signed at 6:53 pm

  73. Per DD: “it looks like Bill Nichols doesn’t like for people to fight for what they believe in, he makes fun of people for protecting the constitution and signing the petititon. How very Obama of you. Why don’t you let the courts decide if Obama is born here.”

    Actually, I’m perfectly willing to. Y’all, OTOH, quite obviously are not. You heard, BTW, that a *state* court in WA threw out an *identical* suit today, correct? “Well, FANCY that!” What a co-inky-dink. Seems like they don’t agree with you either. I guess the judge there* knew less about the law than rank amateurs with no legal background at all, too, right? }}:)

    As for protecting the Constitution, I did it for Uncle Sugar for over 30 years, boot; “Semper fi, mac.” The only things I ever asked of the mindless cannon fodder who were all glory & no brains, were to (a) not get kin the way of the *real* patriots, & (b) polish their brass in the rear area so they wouldn’t get the rest of us (i.e., those who who knew what we were doing) killed.

    My question’s still — what’re y’all gonna do when even your buddies Roberts, Alito, Thomas, & Scalia won’t back you up — gonna accuase *them* of being anti-American too? }}:)

  74. My goodness. A couple of you just keep writing notes over and over, like you need to convince yourself of your silly explanations.

    The question underlying all this is basic: why the heck would Barack Obama NOT want to release the long form birth certificate (the one that actually show the name of the hospital)?

    Don’t ya’ll think it is obvious some republican congressman from a very safe district (or planning to retire anyway) will stand up and challenge Obama’s electors? Then we’ll have a disgusting constitutional mess.

    What is possibly on that birth certificate that is worth putting this country through another Bush v. Gore?

    Want to make a buck? Start printing up Pres. Biden t-shirts.

  75. All right, I’ll play along.

    To whom would Obama go about releasing this “long form birth certificate” assuming that Hawaii has them (I’ve heard they don’t in many cases from that era)?

    If he posts it on his web site, you will all say it’s a forgery.

    The judge has no interest in it-he’s dismissed the case and doesn’t ever want to see it in his court again-and he’s not a document expert.

    Perhaps a document expert? Well who picks him, pays for his services and checks his work.

    Congress? They would decide this case strictly on political grounds. The Dems control and will have a bigger majority in Jan. If a Republican challenges, they will vote it down. There is no appealing their decision. No constitutional crisis.

    The fact is everybody has a recourse in this case. You don’t like Obama? Then don’t vote for him. End of story.

  76. Per JJ:”The question underlying all this is basic: why the heck would Barack Obama NOT want to release the long form birth certificate (the one that actually show the name of the hospital)?”

    Actually, the *real* question underlying all this is even *more* basic than that. I.e., Why the heck would someone *not* want people to be ale to vote for someone who looks like he’s going to win the election?

    Face it — like it or don’t trhe Facts Is: All this flurry of activity *only* started when it began to look as though Obama might actually win. Occam’s Razor tells us there’s one explanation that’s more logical than any other — hatred. Not necessarily race hatred, just hatred, most logically because Berg’s own preferred candidate didn’t get nominated.

    Any truly honest person would be asking *that* question long before they would the other. The only reason not to would equally obviously be that there’s a biased axe to grind. And that’s an unvarnished assessment. Why? Because it comes from a long-time elephant rider who prefers honesty to ideology. Berg has a known rep as a disgruntled Clintonista who’s still mad & willing to go to any lengths to win; that would be natural the first thought in any honest assessment.

    “Don’t ya’ll think it is obvious some republican congressman from a very safe district (or planning to retire anyway) will stand up and challenge Obama’s electors?”

    Nope, not obvious at all. In fact, the exact opposite. Again, Occam’s Razor — there would be no crisis, since the inevitable legal challenges to the *challenge* wouldn’t play out until after the new Congress takes office. By law the position would then go not to McCain, but to Biden or the 3rd in the line of succession, the Speaker of the incoming House. And based on current predictions, *that* would be a Democrat too, which would make it a *complete* lose-lose for anyone fool enough to try the tactic. (Never mess with the old man on history or politics — they’re his specialties. )

    MrR is dead-on when he says that if you don’t want Obama to win, then vote against him. If he loses, that ought to be even more satisfying than an extremely risky procedural gamble. But if he wins, it’d make you mad as hell.

    Sounds like a lot of folks are *very* afraid to take that chance.

  77. The Electoral College is one of the EVIL 3 minority rule gerrymander systems in the U.S.A. regime.

    I.E. ALL Prezs since 1832 have been de facto elected by about 28-32 percent of the popular votes in the States/DC to get a bare majority of the 12th Amdt gerrymander Prez electors.

    2008 will be more of the same.

    Some folks in 1932 voted for HITLER to be President of Germany in 1932. He lost.

    In Jan. 1933 Hitler was APPOINTED to be Prime Minister of Germany by the senile Prez Hindenburg (who had beat Hitler in 1932).

    The rest is history — the TYRANNY in Germany in 1933-1945 until the regime was destroyed (after causing about 60 million dead in the world during World War II).

    Be really careful about voting for major executive officers — especially if they have NO allegiance / loyalty to the Constitution in a regime.

    Exactly what is the nation-state allegiance / loyalty of Obama ???

  78. Per Demo Rep: “ALL Prezs since 1832 have been de facto elected by about 28-32 percent of the popular votes in the States/DC to get a bare majority of the 12th Amdt gerrymander Prez electors.”

    Actually, that’s not so. In addition to the 2000 election, there’s also the Hayes/Tilden election 48% for Hayes vs. 51 for Tilden), as well as “Landslide Johnson,” who won with over 61% of the popular vote in ’64. FDR won with nearly that much over Alf Landon in ’36, & Nixon with a similar amount over McGovern in ’72.

    (Hindenberg, of course, only reluctantly made Hitler Chancellor of a coalition government of the NSDAP and DNVP to restore political order after the no-confidence vote & von Papen/Schleicher debacle. He felt von Papen could control Hitler, which of course did not turn out to be the case.)

  80. Hey, verbum, that’s nothing! Here’s the scenario that really scares you nut-jobs:

    Barack Obama takes office in January.
    He passes an economic stimulus package based on infrastructure and clean energy.
    He reforms health care, ensuring that most of those who are now uninsured get coverage.
    He works with global leaders to put in place a new structure for the finincial system that works for the next generation.
    He begins handing the responsibilities in Iraq to the Iraqis and brings almost all US troops out by mid-2010.
    He improves stability in Afghanistan and convinces the NATO partners to contribute more to the effort.
    The economy bottoms in mid-2009 and begins a slow but steady recovery.

    And the big one that scares you guys:

    He is re-elected in 2012 with a huge landslide.

    Good luck to you!

  81. There is no way that I am going to vote for either one of these candidates. That being said, McCain did a full release of his documentation when it was questioned. The whole story went away immediately. Obama has chosen to stonewall the American public and hid a large portion of his past. Now we have this situation where these conspiracy theories run rampant. It really doesn’t matter if any of it is true or not. What matters is if a story is told enough times, it becomes accepted as truth. If Obama becomes president and is tested, like Biden says he will be, everyone will look back at these citizenship/allegiance issues and point to them no matter how Obama handles the situation. The entire world will wonder exactly where his heart lies. True or not, the perception will be that the commander in chief might not be whole heartily pro American. This puts our nation in a position of weakness on the world’s stage. I know that my candidate will trail the two mainstream players in the polls. I accept this. I also can look at the current situation realistically and critically and see that Obama is going to be elected. My only wish for this nation is that he leads from a position of integrity and strength. I just don’t see how he can muster that when he is hiding the content of his past. It worries me that any perceived weakness on our part will embolden and strengthen any potential enemies.

    I see this issue from a very simple light. The presidency is fundamentally just another government job at the federal level, and a temporary one at that. Anyone on this forum making comments one way or another would have to have a very thorough background check prior to gaining government employment. Further, to gain the nation’s highest security clearance, we would have to provide full disclosure of all documentation for complete review and research. In the case of the president, those documents become de facto public records as part of being the president. Face it, when you are elected to the highest office in the world, your life becomes very transparent. Failure to be transparent is like trowing gasoline on a fire. It gets out of control very quickly, as it has in this case. Is it really too much to ask of our president to be forthcoming and transparent with his employers (you and I as citizens)? I, as an employer, expect nothing less of those I hire. As matter of fact, failure to disclose something on an application is grounds for immediate dismissal. Do the same rules not apply to our elected officials? Do they not have to play by the same rules as the rest of us? They are applying for an elected government job. How can I, as their potential employer, make an informed hiring decision without full disclosure on the application?

    Our country is in 2 wars, in the middle of what might be our most severe finanacial crisis, and politicians from both sides of the isle have exhibited extrememly poor ethics and morals for the last decade. The last thing our country needs right now is more controversy. Please Mr. Obama, for the sake of our nation, give we the people access to the complete picture so that we can make an informed decision. My mother always told me that not telling the whole truth is the same as not telling the truth at all. Hiding the documents from your past is the same as not providing the whole truth. Please, just be honest with me, be honest with the nation, and give us a squeeky clean presidency that we can all be proud of. The best way to do this is to start with a clean, untarnished slate with full disclosure. You may not have to encounter Joe Biden’s test at 6 months if the world sees the US as united behind our president. As long as these controversies are allowed to swirl about, I see no way that Americans will be able to unite behind you. Remove the suspicians by providing full disclosure. No man is looked up as being honest if it is perceived that he has something to hide.

    Enough of the mudslinging between those of us on these forums. Surely we can engage in political discussions and remain civil and polite. I really do not understand how anyone can defend a presidential candidate’s hiding his past, but that is your decision and I respect your decision. If you personally don’t require a full accounting of a person who is to be president, that is your personal decision. Please don’t degrade, demean, and start with name calling and question my intelligence because I would like to see complete transpanency.

  82. Per choperz: “There is no way that I am going to vote for either one of these candidates.

    ROFLMAO IOW, then, since you have no actual *interest* in *either* of them, the only *real* reason you had for whining about Obama’s credentials is just that you wanted to cause trouble. Now *how* could anyone have missed that…. Boy, you talk about a piece of work.

    “see that Obama is going to be elected. My only wish for this nation is that he leads from a position of integrity and strength.”

    BS — we’ve seen your actions, & now you try to weasel. Sorry, kid, no one here is that stupid. I had you sussed out from the start & figured I’d see just how much your chain could be rattled. You didn’t disappoint, either, BTW; you bought right into your own game & never even saw it being used on you. You were being played like a $2 fiddle & didn’t have Clue 1. }};) For what it’s worth, though, there *is* a major difference between us —

    I actually believed in & *meant* what I said. Like said, *I’m* honest.

    “Please don’t degrade, demean, and start with name calling and question my intelligence because I would like to see complete transpanency.”

    Again, total BS. Nice try at dodging, but completely effete & ineffectual. I’ve watched you here & in other venues — your actions are 115% at odds with what you just claimed. Nothing’s changed, of course — you’re still being just as dishonest as you were before, it’s just that now you’re trying to channel it in a different direction. Honesty your mama taught you? To coin a phrase, “Your mama, my butt.” }:) Had you yourself been honest, the thread wouldn’t have had half the vitriol it’s shown.

    But of course you knew that. What you didn’t know was that your own game was being turned on you. As another saying goes, “There’s nothing easier than to cheat a cheater.”

  83. Mr. Nichols,

    So I take your posting #82 to mean that you are in favor of less than full transparency? There are exactly 2 sides to this arguement: transparency or hide the documents.

    I completely respect your comfort level with Mr. Obama’s lack of transparency. I just don’t understand why you feel it necessary to attack those with a different opinion with vitriol and venom. I am actually quite surprised that anyone would defend a position of nondisclosure so vigorously, but that is your cross to bear.

    I wish you and Mr. Reality only the best in all of your endeavors.

  85. choprzrul: When you apply for a job, government or private, you have to disclose necessary information to the appropriate parties in a manner that maintains your privacy. I put my SSN on job applications, but if a prospective employer displayed that on his web site, he’d have a lawsuit on his hands. Mr Berg is a certified nut-job (reference his 9/11 conspiracy theories for which judges have sanctioned him). If he came asking me for anything, I tell him to put it where the sun don’t shine. Besides, many of the documents Berg is asking for, like a Naturalization Certficate simply don’t exist as I’ve explained above. Mr. Obama has satisfied several branches of the US Government and the State of Illinois as to his citizenship. This birth certificate has been posted on his web site. By the way, I just checked my daughter’s long-form birth certificate from Maryland and it has no more information than is on Obama’s Hawaiian birth certificate. And, you failed to address my points from last night as to WHO, EXACTLY, these documents (many of which don’t exist) should be disclosed.

    The crux of your argument is that you somehow believe Obama is disloyal to the US, where he spent 46 years and is secretly loyal to Indonesia where he spent 2 years or Kenya where visited for a few months. But testimony from 42 people present at his birth in Hawaii wouldn’t assuage your fears on that. And if he were born in Kenya and brought to the US 4 days later, that wouldn’t affect his loyalty or lack thereof. I really think you should look at Colin Powell’s interview on Meet the Press; he spoke to your concerns more eloquently than I could.

  86. Dennis-Obama is 48 years old. The doctor is likely dead. And he may have delivered thousands of babies over his career, so if he were alive why would he remember that one? I like Obama, but I don’t believe that trumpets blared and the skies parted when he was born.

  87. Thank you for your retort Mr. Reality. I am not asking for Mr. Obama’s SSN, driver’s license number, or credit card numbers. The birth documents currently sealed in Hawaii can be mailed to each state’s Secretary of State for qualification verification. I would personally put up the $600.00 (50 states x $12.00 per certified copy) just for this to be settled once and for all. There is enough diversity amongst the 50 SOS’s to ensure complete fairness in evaluation of authenticity of said documents. This would also clear up the other ongoing lawsuits currently reported to be ongoing in 8 or 9 other states. To further settle any and all questions, disclosure of college records would be necessary. The 50 SOS’s would simply sign a non-disclosure agreement so that personal information is never divulged to the public, but yet the SOS’s would be able to validate eligibility to we the people.

    These simple and inexpensive steps will put this to rest once and for all. It will also put Mr. Obama in a very good light with 1 week to go before the election. As I have stated before, I really don’t understand why anyone would support a position of non-disclosure? I expect openess from all of my elected officials, no matter what side of the isle they walk on.

  88. I don’t think you get it. Obama has long ago filed all of the papers to get on the ballot. Every single one of the Secretaries of State have accepted his documents. They are kind of busy right now, you know, and I doubt they have any interest in this. If you don’t like the SOS in your state, vote against him at the next election.

    And what is the fascination with his college records? Are you doubting that he graduated from Columbia and Harvard Law? I’ve seen testimony from numerous professors and fellow students about his time there and at Occidental. All of it was very positive. Many of them were present at graduation and are quite sure he earned his degrees.

    If you want to know my concerns about the candidates, it is frankly with McCain. No, not where he was born (I could care less), but whether he is in the early stages of Alzheimer’s. His behavior throughout this campaign has been very erratic and the other day on Meet the Press, he ran through the 5 former Secretaries of State who have endorsed him twice and forgot George Schultz both times. Subtle clues, no doubt, but I have personal experience with Alzheimer’s and am very concerned. Those issue were glossed over when Reagan ran for a second term and we learned the truth later.

  89. Per choperz: “So I take your posting #82 to mean that you are in favor of less than full transparency? There are exactly 2 sides to this arguement: transparency or hide the documents.

    “I completely respect your comfort level with Mr. Obama’s lack of transparency. I just don’t understand why you feel it necessary to attack those with a different opinion with vitriol and venom. I am actually quite surprised that anyone would defend a position of nondisclosure so vigorously, but that is your cross to bear. ”

    Nope, sorry, bubba, wrong you take, but you do get credit for the effort, at any rate. 🙂 Not surprising, though, since you’ve dodged every question put to you & have shown your only intent is to focus on an extremely small half-truth & repeat the “big lie” technique to sell it. Sorry, ace, but this is the big leagues; you’re not quite good enough to run with the big dawgs just yet. 🙂 Trying to put words into other people’s mouths & build straw-man warriors doesn’t cut it when you’re up against folks with more knowledge & experience. And sorry, but the old man doesn’t have any crosses handy; got a couple of 1×6’s, nails/hammer, & an instruction sheet if you want to build one, though. 🙂

    “I just don’t understand why you feel it necessary to attack those with a different opinion with vitriol and venom.”

    Like you’ve spent the last 3 days doing, I assume, correct? I do have to say I admire the chutzpah at still trying after you’d hoist yourself on your own petard, but it’s still valueless, I’m afraid. Your own vitriol’s a matter of record, sad to have to say.

    BTW, aggravating as I’m sure it is to you, none of this is of any particular personal consequence to me. I happened here by accident via another blog, watched a bit & saw you going into your act, & said to myself, “I think I’m going to have some fun with this kid. He won’t even notice his own tactics are being turned on their head& coming back at him.” And like I said, disappoint, you did not.

  90. Per MrR “And what is the fascination with his college records? ”

    Who knows, maybe he’s just a voyeur troll. Never *seen* one of those, but I don’t doubt they might exist. Dead right about McCain, though — minutiae regarding paperwork don’t add up to squat when measured against the huge flubs McCain has made on a literally daily basis.

    Any honest person would have questions about matters of actual substance, but then that’s not the kind of thing the peanut gallery is interested in here, is it? No matter to me — I never expect grad-school level work from folks willfully unwilling to take the long view.

  91. Thank you for your kind words Mr. Nichols. Your superior intellect is obvious. My simpleton mind only questions what you, me, and the rest of the nation have to gain by not knowing what is contained in those documents that remain hidden to this day. Now I am left trying to figure out why you recommend constructing a cross from 1 x 6’s, but I defer to your superior intellect and experience and will forego the 2 x 8’s.

    Mr. Reality: I too would very much like to have full disclosure of Mr. McCains medical records. If he has a medical condition that might affect his ability to perform his duty in office, the American people have every right to know about it before the election.

  92. # 78 Half the votes in the States/DC having 270 of 538 Prez/VP Electoral College votes WILL be about 28-32 percent of the total U.S.A. popular votes — i.e. ADD up JUST the popular votes in the States/DC for the winner — divide by the total votes for all candidates.

    i.e. One more de facto minority rule Prez.

    The votes for a Prez winner in the States/DC in which he/she loses have ZERO effect.
    ——
    Democracy NOW

    Approval Voting for ALL nonpartisan elected executive officers and all judges.

    Vote for 1 or more, highest win — pending major public education about head to head voting.

    Abolish the monarchy veto — a vestige of the EVIL killer monarchs in the U.K. in the EVIL Middle Ages — due to the EVIL monarchist Hamilton at the 1787 Federal Convention.

  93. There is no definitive diagnosis for early Alzheimer’s and so it would not likely appear in medical records. I am content to form an impression from McCain’s actions, words and appearance. I can do the same for Obama without his college transcripts or birth certificate.

    By the way, if you read the latest literature in neuroscience that’s how humans make most of their judgements about people-and they do so within about 15 seconds.

    Besides which, the choice is more than between 2 people. There are 2 parties, with their recent track records and proposals. Based on the Republicans recent record and their platform, I have a hard time imagining a candidate they would nominate that I could support.

    Putting it all together, I honestly don’t give a crap where the 2 candidates were born. After all, they were babies at the time and really couldn’t help it could they?

  94. Bravo Mr. Reality! IMHO there is not a significant amount of difference between the two major parties. They like to take jabs at each other, but we the people end up nearly the exact legislation in the end. They are all politicians that run to the center and have in essence became equals. It is one giant race to promise we the people the greatest benefit from robbing the treasury. They are all the same, promising this program, or that entitlement. Our government continues to grow larger and larger while expecting us to pay for it. In the last 50 years we have went from a middle class where 1 person in the family worked and the other raised children, but had almost non existant entitlement programs; to our system today with a shrinking and struggling middle class where both parents have to work in support of massive entitlement programs. No one can place blame on either party, they were both party to it. We now have figured out that we can vote ever increasing benefits from the public treasury via proxy through our politicians. Ask yourself, how many politicians are in the current presidential race and how many statesmen are in the presidential race. I have made the personal decision to walk away from politicians and vote only for those persons who I determine to be statesmen (women are included also) who are serving out of self sacrifice rather than self promotion. If public office was actually a burden to be bore rather than an avenue to power and wealth, our country could return to its former greatness very quickly.

    These are my personal views, thoughts, and feelings. Call me names, question my intelligence, make snide remarks, and so on, but I let it roll off my shoulders. We are all in this together and will all fall together if things don’t change. I only pray that I am able to lend you a hand when you need it.

  95. OK. Statesmen (or women). Some examples please out of the present or the past.

    In the entire history of humanity I’m not sure that there are many examples, if any, of people who put themselves forward for public office stricly out of self sacrifice. At a minimum, only someone with an enormous ego and a need for attention and adulation would go through the hell of a presidential campaign.

    But I must say I find it awfully strange that you want a statesman (or woman) yet you want to spend endless hours focusing on the minutia of which form of birth certificate a candidate has or whether they got an A or B on some college course. That doesn’t seem very statesmanlike of you.

  96. You are very correct, there have been very few in our history that can/could be considered statesmen.

    My position on our current candidates is that they ALL need to raise the bar of integrity. In my business, which I own, if I encounter an applicant that has hidden part of his past, his/her application is automatically discarded. I guess that in my simpleton point of view, our current crop of candidates are quite simply applicants to the office of president. I strongly question the long term effects on John McCain from being a prison of war for over half a decade. I question the effects of age on McCain. I also want to know about Biden’s, Palin’s, and Obama’s past and current histories. Anyone who has been in a decision making role will tell you that the best decision can only be made with all of the facts available. Failing that, you make the best decision you can with the facts that are available, but you bias that decision on the knowledge that you don’t have all of the facts. Do I think that we have all of the facts from all quarters? Absolutely not. Do I think that facts are being deliberatly retained, hidden, and grey’d by all parties involved? Absolutely. Do I believe that a characteristic of a statesman is someone of integrity that puts the facts out for all to see and use to make an individual decision? Absolutely. What might be minutia to you or I may very well be a deal breaker to someone else. I have no standing to make that determination for anyone else. That is their decision to make based upon the facts that are available.

    Please do not mistake this as a McCain-Obama issue for me. As far as I am concerned, they are essentially the same. What it is to me, is an integrity issue. One of these men is going to be my president. This effects me personally and as such I want them both to be completely forthcoming with all information. Is that too high of a standard to hold for a politician? Should I reserve that standard only for someone who claims to be a statesman? Perhaps I do deserve to be publically ridiculed here for what I believe to be a minimum qualification for the presidency. If you believe so, please tell me what standard we should expect from our candidates.

  97. Refer to photo of a Obama’s Indo school registration form.

    see Source : texasdarlin.wordpress.cpm

    AP reported on this, caption reads: “This registration document, made available on Jan. 24, 2007, by the Fransiskus Assisi school in Jakarta, Indonesia, shows the registration of Barack Obama under the name Barry Soetoro into the Catholic school made by his step-father, Lolo Soetoro. The document lists Barry Soetoro as a Indonesian citizen, born on August 4, 1961 in Honolulu, and shows his Muslim step-father listed the boy’s religion as Islam.

    What This Documentation Means

    This AP photo is compelling evidence of the following assertions, which have been set forth on this blog:

    1. Barack Obama had Indonesian citizenship

    2. Barack Obama had the legal name Barry Soetoro

    3. Barack Obama was a Muslim, despite his “fight the smears” claim that he never has been. (see story that we posted on this topic).

    When was Barack Obama going to tell the electorate about his Indonesian identity and citizenship?

    What is the current status of his Indonesian citizenship?

    Did Barack Obama travel to Pakistan in 1981 on an Indonesian passport?

    Does his birth certificate say Barry Soetoro?

    Did he ever legally change his name from Soetoro to Obama?

    Is the correct name on the ballot?

    Also see : laotze.blogspot.com/2007/01/tracking-down-obama-in-indonesia-part-3.html

  98. As a Presidential Candidate Obama is

    Weak.
    Naive.
    Vague.
    Whiney.
    Arrogant.
    Deceitful.
    Confused.
    Narcissistic.
    Dishonest.
    Incompetent.
    Inexperienced.
    Will raise taxes.
    Married to Michelle.
    Will punish success.
    Will expand government.
    Will weaken national security.
    No record of bipartisanship. Ever.
    Never had to work a real job. Ever.
    Longtime supporter of hard-left hate.
    Admitted cocaine and marijuana abuser.
    More popular in France than in America.
    Clapping in Jeremiah’s pews for 20+ years.
    Product of an elitist private Punahou School.
    Likes to play race games to paint himself a victim.
    Takes both sides of every issue, stands for nothing.
    Can’t write, so had Ayers ghost write his biographies.
    Friend of Capitol and Pentagon bomber William Ayers.
    Calling every question about his associations “a smear”.
    Loved by terrorists and America-haters around the world.
    Full of socialist ideas for change and ready to roll on day one.
    Cancels visit with wounded soldiers for hoops at Ritz Carlton.
    Registered as a Muslim by his mother at his Indonesian School.
    Lied on his law application when asked to list alternate names used.
    Michelle lied about Barack paying off his loans for law school in 2005.
    Speaker for AAAN which supports Palestinian Terrorists against Israel.
    Not ready to be President according to Hillary, Bill, AND Senator Biden.
    Supports partial birth abortions, for his daughters babies and for your babies.
    Took a deal for lowering his own home price from convicted felon Tony Rezco
    Have former Freddie & Fannie Executives that ruined credit on his campaign staff.
    Won’t release his Harvard info to prove if a Radical Muslim financed his law schooling.
    Cloaks himself as a black man when convenient, forgetting that he is half Anglo-Saxon
    Helped fund (AAAN) Rashid Khalidi director of WAFA, the terrorist PLO’s news agency.
    Role as an Acorn leadership trainer in their agenda of anti-capitalism and illegal voter registration.
    Ayer’s wife Bernadine Dorn, another Weather Underground member was a co-worker with Michelle.

    The Truth is Out There

  99. We’re really talking at cross purposes here. You can never know everything about another person. I’ve been married 25 years and don’t know (or want to know) everything about my spouse.

    I don’t see it as the defining characteristic of a statesman that they release every trivial fact about their life history. But, you as a voter have the right to base your vote on whatever you feel like, sensible or not. What you don’t have is the right to compel through lawsuits candidates to answer to spurious and baseless charges, which is what you were supporting before you decided to talk about statesmen.

    We’re not getting anywhere, so have a good rest of your life.

  100. Has anyone notice something strange and so IN OUR FACES about this Obama and his campaign design?

    What is up with all that CHANGEd ‘symbolism’, he has WEIRD changes to Flags, logos, his website is full of it, and the flags he stands in front of, NOT USA flag,
    but a made up one with a big ‘O’ on it.

    PLEASE WAKE UP, HE IS DOING THIS ALL RIGHT IN OUR FACES.

  103. According to hillbuzz:

    ” We hear she’s really smart and very good with computers and is in Martinique right now. She’s one of the best fundraisers around, too, according to the Congressional Black Caucus.

    Totally unrelated, of course, but Caribbean islands are great places to host computer based financial operations.

    There was a John Grisham novel a while back called “The Firm” that had something to do with this, and with large sums of money coming through the Caribbean, then being rerouted to other accounts through computers on islands like Martinique.

    But, that doesn’t have anything at all to do with the Obama campaign, its millions in questionable donations, or why a young woman’s in Martinique these days.

    We just thought of it because the Caribbean’s so lovely, and John Grisham is such an imaginative writer. On a cold, dreary Chicago day, wouldn’t we all love to be in Martinique with Vera, doing whatever it is she is doing there, wholly unrelated to Obama in any way! ”

    blackfivemedia, the source for the Hillbuzz images, is more blunt. At the moment, the blackfivemedia site seems to be down…hmmm.

    Hmm.

    NOTE – Google searchs on Vera Baker reveal that she has been a campaign finance staffer for Obama, and rumors of an affair have been percolating on the Internet for a while. I read somewhere that Michelle had Vera shipped off to the Caribbean. Apparently photos of her are hard to come by.

  104. I am a retired peace officer and a life long registered Democrat. When I graduated from college I spent several hundred dollars getting dozens of certified copies of my birth certificate, college transcripts, and high school transcripts because along with every application I submitted for an entry level position with police/sheriff/probation departments that I applied to I was required to submit these documents along with copies of my diplomas. I also had to submit a list of all the addresses where I had lived since becoming an adult, and any trips I had made out of country. This information was used to conduct background investigations since I was applying for jobs that required a security clearance. Obama is applying for the highest office in the land and is refusing to produce these documents? Why bother fighting a case when it can be quashed by simply showing these documents to the judge if there isn’t anything to hide?

    I think that the most important information in this case is that he traveled to Pakistan in 1981, which is admitted by his campaign, which was a no travel zone for US citizens at that time as Pakistan was under Marshall Law. On his way there Obama stopped in Indonesia to visit his sister at which point, in order to get into Pakistan, he would have had to get his Indonesian passport renewed in order to travel to Pakistan. The only way he could have renewed his Indonesian passport would be to declare himself an Indonesian citizen (his school records from Fransiskus Assisi show he was recognized as an Indonesian citizen as a minor, http://www.daylife.com/photo/01u33pL9Ns06D), because in 1981 Indonesia did not recognize dual citizenship. This would mean that, AS AN ADULT, Obama gave up his US citizenship in order to get his Indonesian passport. If this is not the case, then Obama should not have any problems producing his US passport showing that he traveled to Pakistan in 1981. Records of this should also be maintained by the US State Department.

    I am not a supporter of either Obama or McCain, and I think it is pathetic that these are the two chosen by RNC and the DNC as the best candidates. However, at this point, I would vote for McCain over Obama simply on the basis of credibility. McCain did release his records and has not made any attempt at hiding documents regarding his qualifications as a candidate. Obama has moved quickly to have all of his records sealed, including but not limited to his vault copy birth certificate, his college transcripts, his grad school transcripts, previously published articles written by him while he was at Harvard, his passport information, and a plethora of other documentation. Mr. Obama, if you have nothing to hide, why are you trying so hard to prevent the people from reviewing the documents that would give credence to what you claim are your qualifications for POTUS? If you have nothing to hide, release the documents and put these issues to rest.

  105. #99 response:

    Please forgive me. I was in no way trying to trivialize a law degree from Harvard. If any of my comments might have been interpreted as calling a Harvard law degree trivial, then I must apologize.

  106. It appears that many of the “legal experts” here would be unable to pass the citizenship test themselves. Not to mention passing basic 5th-grade English.

  107. Per Demo Rep: “# 78 Half the votes in the States/DC having 270 of 538 Prez/VP Electoral College votes WILL be about 28-32 percent of the total U.S.A. popular votes — i.e. ADD up JUST the popular votes in the States/DC for the winner — divide by the total votes for all candidates.”

    Sorry, kiddo, caught is caught, & wrong is still wrong. };) Your math was 180-off both times. So is the logic of “adding up the total # of votes & dividing by the # of candidates.” To be righteous, one must first be right; get the facts correct & credibility follows, I’m afraid. 😉

  108. BTW, just for the record, for those who think me a Democrat apologist, remember to bear in mind that I was campaigning for Goldwater in ’64, & my views have not changed much. What were *y’all* doing in ’64? I hope it wasn’t learning to say “Da-da.” 🙂 Semper fi, Mac. -evil grin-

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