Andrew Yang has a podcast, and on November 11, he hosted Lee Drutman for an hour and seven minutes. Here is a link to the Yang podcasts. To hear Drutman, choose “All politics is tribal”, which is currently second from the top. Drutman is a political scientist and a supporter of proportional representation for the United States; he is also the author of “Breaking the Two-Party Doom Loop: the case for Multiparty Democracy in America.”
Yang supports top-five primaries. At the 44 minute mark, he said to Drutman that because the movement for proportional representation for the U.S. seems so slow, perhaps Drutman agrees that it is better at this time to work for top-five primaries. But Drutman said “no”, and that it would make things worse. Drutman said we should eliminate primaries. He also said that it is socially useful to give parties control over whom they nominate.
This conversation is very important. Kudos to Yang for hosting Drutman, and kudos to Drutman for his message.
Proportional representation is typically done with multi member districts. Did Lee Drutman have an opportunity to say how large the districts would be, with how many elected members to each?
Interesting how Winger is promoting a c0mmunist podcast.
There is a fundamental conflict between what active party members want, and what independent voters want. Party activists want party loyalists to be their nominees, while independent voters want a chance to vote for all available candidates.
Compromise is difficult, but not impossible, if creative thinking is used. One idea that I have is what could be called the dual, or open/closed primary. How would this work?
All candidates names would be printed on one primary ballot. Party committees would chose whether or not to allow candidates to use the party label. Each ballot would be marked as “Democratic” “Republican” “Independent” and with the names of any other qualified parties. The voters would each take their party’s ballot. Approval voting would be used. All voters could vote for any candidate of any party, but the tabulation would be by party for each set of party members. The winners of each party’s own voters would win, and earn that party’s label for the final election. Any candidates who received a certain minimum number of approval votes from all voters would also proceed to the final election, BUT, if any of those were party candidates who did NOT win the votes of their own party, they would NOT have any party designation on the final ballot. Ranked choice voting would be used in the final election among all the primary winners.
ANOTHER PURGE LIST
“Top X” primaries, in fact are deliberately written to knock out third parties.
Walter, why not have statewide equivalents of the “national lists” of Germany and other non-Westminster, non-FPTP parliamentary systems?
Hell, let’s amend the Constitution to give us “national representatives,” and even “national senators” without getting rid of the two per state, and telling them, “you’re still equal,” it’s constitutional!
This confirms Richard Winger is a c0mmunist
@ SocaticGadfly:
Qualified third parties would be able to nominate their own candidates directly to the final ballot under my proposal.
Proportional representation is the way to go.
I don’t think you could implement proportional representation of the usual, European, party-list, sort on the national level in the US without a Constitutional amendment.
There is a bill in Congress for proportional representation for US House elections, and Drutman mentioned it. It is HR 3863 by Congressman Don Beyer of Virginia.
Is Lee Drutman jewish?
All of a sudden Yang, a democrat defector-supposedly- come into Richards blog.
One in which I have been commenting in for quite some time.
Trying to get support and credibility, acceptance, etc.
Who knows? Maybe I am succeeding.
Now a democracy scholar comes to Richards blog via Yang.
I am suspicious.
Richards blog has become a battleground.
Between the ZOG, Israel and the USA composed of the two parties, democrats and republicans.
Empowered by Duverger’s Law, in effect for centuries.
And those who support a multi party system that is genuinely fair and representative. Genuine democracy.
That would be Top Six.
All the rest are diversions. Deliberately foisted upon us-here and now-in order to confuse, obfuscate etc.
Nominations, primaries, elections -and scholars-are manipulated behind the scenes by The ZOG, in power.
The ZOG wants to stay in power.
The ZOG is directly in my way.
Yang is not president because long ago it was decided it would be Biden v Trump.
But he is still useful.
You want democracy, DEFEAT THE ZOG!
The ZOG is already well on its way to enslaving the world.
IMO.
Milnes needs to go back to the looney bin.
At least some mention of PR getting some attention.
———-
NOOO primaries
EQUAL nom pets for individual candidates.
pre-election candidate rank order lists of other candidates in all districts.
PR = total votes in all districts / total members in all districts = EQUAL votes to elect each member [if each member is to have ONE vote in the legis body].
Surplus votes down. Repeat.
Lowest loser votes up. Repeat.
ALL votes count.
To allocate representation proportionately the preferences of voters must be revealed. How is that possible with ballot access censorship of choices? The way to solicit voter’s revealing their actual preferences without biased ballots is the all write-in ballot. See Federal Write-in Absentee Ballot.
D. Frank Robinson,
Excellent comment.
Top Six/Level the Playing Field Plus Write ins.
Voters might need some educating about voting, but it should work.
Might as well because PLAS might require some voter education also, what with vote coordination by Greens and Libertarians, otherwise ideological adversaries.
AAron Rogers revealed some of the unfortunate rationale of vax resistance.
He connected-incorrectly and irrationally-vaccination with “woke” politics, which it is not.
Vaccination is not “woke”, it is public health policy.
Disco Stick aka: Dickless Schtick,
Cute emogis. But as barbaric as they are, surgeons and rabbis do not use scissors.
Try a scalpel emoji. And a purple extension to the eggplant, to be sheared off.
And throw in some cotton to swab the blood. And stiches.
Well, perhaps a doctor or Rabbi could comment further to explain what they are thinking much better than I.
FOR NON- troll morons and *religious* NUTCASES —
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_representation
So, for morons and religious nutcases who are not trolls?
morons and religious nutcases — NOOO hope.
perhaps be semi-useful — get themselves on a sinking boat in the middle of the Pacific Ocean and have killer monster sharks have a meal [not to infect the sharks]. Send out a LAST SOS post on BAN.
When will Demo Rep get arrested for making threats?
These “vaccines” obviously do not work. Look at all of the cases. Milnes is a retard.
See https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/health/health-topics/safe-bris.page
Everything woke turns to shit
According to Richard Winger:
“There is a bill in Congress for proportional representation for US House elections, and Drutman mentioned it. It is HR 3863 by Congressman Don Beyer of Virginia.”
The method of voting described in HR 3863 is ranked choice voting in either single or multi member districts. While RCV in multi member districts could be described as a form of proportional representation, I was referring to the party-list form of proportional representation used in some European elections in which the voters vote for a party, and the party supplies the specific candidates from a pre-determined list. I don’t think that you could do that nation-wide in the US under the Constitution. You might be able to do it in a particular state, but I think that most Americans would find it too different from the usual method of voting for specific candidates. I would not have a problem with RCV in multi-members districts.
🐸 got that right for sure!
IIRC there were gas price controls in the 1970’s.
They saved consumer costs. Good.
Depressed production. Good.
Caused shortages. Good.
Let’s crackdown on this gas nonsense.
The gas companies think they have consumers the American people by the gonads.
No. Decrease subsidies. Penalize consumers foe buying gas guzzlers etc.
If electricity and hydrogen is produced by solar/wind, we could completely do away with gas.
And fuel oil and propane. And coal.
Energy could be almost free.
Crackdown on this crap.
Probably the best we can hope for is something imilar to the Illinois system – each district would elect three members, with voters casting a preferential vote for first & second choices. Less compliecated than most attempts at PR, and it allows for Independent candidates to have a chance, as well as minority party candidates.
The Illinoise system used cumulative voting instead of preferential vote, and it guaranteed minority party representation by limiting each party to two nominees in districts electing 3 members.
This is more likely at the state level than for Congress. Congressional districts electing 3 members would have more than 2 million residents – too big for insurgent campaigning. Whereas lots of states already have multi member districts for state legislature.
Promoting the principle of proportional representation is good, but nothing too complex is likely to be adopted. The one area where PR has been used in America is the election of delegates to the national conventions of the Democratic and Republican Parties. Not in every state, but enough to make people comfortable with the idea.
Austria locking down the unvaccinated. Good.
Further, order police to take anyone unvaccinated out and about in the public domain like nobody’s business to the nearest vaccination place and injected with the J & J one shot.
THEN we can stop worrying about them.
Thanks, Rabbi Milnestein, for sharing your Jewish C0mmunist population control agenda. You are truly a faithful servant to Satan and Soros. For your service, you’ll get nothing.
Gas price controls might even begin a downward/reversal of inflation.
Maximize prices at pre pandemic levels.
Much of the economy would probably follow suit.
Gene Berkman,
“Probably the best we can hope for…”.
Exactly my argument.
Why go through contortions in dealing with the system with significant changes or new contraptions,
when we can IMMEDIATELY ON OUR OWN without the state rectify what we need done.
Top Six/Level the playing field, by getting the six significant parties which cover the entire political spectrum
full ballot access, the polling should level out to all low double digits. That would make them ALL competitive i.e. viable. Could possibly win.
Green 27%, Constitution 27%, Democrat 17%, Republican 17%, Libertarian 13%, Reform/Alliance x/unknown/variable/%.
“For your service you’ll get nothing.”
So, what else is new?
Over all the years -decades- of progressive activism the only thing I got IIRC is a $5 contribution from Darryl Perry.
I discarded it. I assume it was never withdrawn from his account.
Actually it has costed me. Party dues, donations, party paraphernalia which I never got, travel expenses etc.
I have DEFINITELY not been in this for the money.
You won’t get any favorable treatment in hell, either. The commies won’t reward you with any titles or positions. You’ll always be a loser, stepped on. In this world and in the next. For being ZOG puppy, you will get table scraps and kicks.
Robert Milnes asks “Is Lee Drutman jewish?”
Interesting question. Let’s see what Wikipedia says:
“Lee Drutman is an American political scientist. He is a senior fellow at the New America Foundation. He is known as an advocate for proportional representation with ranked-choice voting in the U.S. political system, arguing that it would reduce political polarization and minimize the risks of democratic backsliding. He has advanced his arguments in favor of proportional voting in the 2020 Oxford University Press book Breaking the Two-Party Doom Loop: The Case for Multiparty Democracy in America. In 2021, Washingtonian magazine listed him as one of the most influential people of Washington D.C., citing his advocacy for proportional voting. He is a regular contributor to 538, where he writes on current affairs.
“He is also the author of the 2015 Oxford University Press book The Business of America Is Lobbying.
“He has a PhD from the University of California, Berkeley, and a BA from Brown University. He received the 2016 American Political Science Association’s Robert A. Dahl Award for ‘scholarship of the highest quality on the subject of democracy’.”
The surname “Drutman” does appear to be a Jewish name. According to forebears:
“Drutman Surname 830,559th Most Common surname in the World
“Approximately 333 people bear this surname
“MOST PREVALENT IN:
United States
“HIGHEST DENSITY IN:
Israel”
https://forebears.io/surnames/drutman
These commies, leftists, and jews are a plague and a cancer. Let’s reunite them with their daddy and master, Satan, as soon as possible.
In the most recent Minneapolis election, 4.5% of voters were unable to cast a regular ballot, that did not have to be interpreted before being counted. We do not know what the voter’s intent was.
There were 17 ballot candidates and 2 declared write-in candidates. Most voters (54.6%) were unwilling or unable to rank three of them.
The 45.4% who did rank three candidates were prevented from ranking more by the ballot design.
There were three strong candidates. The third candidate had six times the votes of the fourth candidate. But less than half of the voters ranked two of the contenders. In a conventional runoff, they would have been permitted to express an opinion.
Do you have to have a plural executive for PR to work?
Political scientists will remember that the first congressional parties were styled as pro- or anti-administration.
👎
ZOG is not in Milnestein’s way. MILNESTEIN IS ZOG.
Ask a rabbi? Ask rabbi Milnestein!
JR asks –
Do you have to have a plural executive for PR to work? Ans — NOOOO
—-
PR – legis partisan
APPV – nonpartisan execs/judics
Both pending Condorcet = RCV done right
TOTSOP
Vaccination and circumcision are both parts of the satanic commie ZOG population control agenda.
Thank you Fact Checker.
You have all but answered my question. Drutman is probably jewish.
His name coming up in BAN and by Richard himself in comments may be deliberate; he may or may not be knowingly involved here.
I had already checked Wikipedia before asking that question here. I found no direct references to his ethnicity or religion.
Evidently Israel deploys its people like chess pieces. Sitting quietly until needed. Individually attack targets of opportunity. Gang up when necessary, like at my eviction hearing where EVERY Court official was jewish.
Judge, landlord’s attorney, my attorney (Legal Aid) until they withdrew due to probably fake “budget” problems.
Why drop a case that you could probably win?
Bustedmugshots dot com
Raymond Bobiak.
Anyone know if he is jewish?
He has surveillance cameras aimed in my direction.
Milnes supports segregation? What a piece of shit.
Where does he support segregation? All I’ve seen is him calling the terror1st state of Israh3ll “aparthe1d,” as if aparthe1d was somehow bad. He refuses continuously to answer whether South Africa is better off now that it’s ruled by crim1nal comm1e n3groes who are terror1zing and genoci1ding the Wh1te population as well as terror1zing other n3gros and everyone else with their pandemic of cr1me and c0mmun1sm.
If rabbi Milnestein supports segregation I want to hear him say it. And I’m still waiting to hear what he has against the righteous and necessary application of Aparthe1d that kept South Africa for decades from descending into the h3ll it has predictably now become. If he’s for segregation, as am I, how can he be against aparthe1d?
I say BRING BACK SEGREGATION! BRING BACK APARTHE1D! SEGREGATION AND APARTHE1D NOW AND FOREVER!!!
Who is Raymond Bobiak?
He supports locking up people who refuse to take the jab. That’s segregation.
Is Raymond Bobiak the neighbor with the large penis?
Segregation folks can form their own party — and try for ballot access
—- AND get major flak / support from commie donkeys / fascist elephants.
Please tighten me.
Republicans are moving away from political correct woke bullshit. Only a matter of time before it’s ok to say we are for racial segregation. The phony vaccine should be outlawed and treated like the dangerous drug that it is. Execute the pushers and smugglers.
I believe we need three innovations to fix our bought elections system.
IVA Goal: Build the bottom-up Internet structure needed for the nonpartisan populist ballot access movement to create open Final Five Primary Elections and RCV (Ranked Choice Voting) General Elections in every state.1 All eligible voters will vote by mail2 in every state. Equal Political Speech under the law. We are the 99.999%. Occupy Elections. Everybody Vote! https://cs2pr.us/hamco/usaiva/#Goal .
There is a way. The 99.999% needs to build a structure from the bottom up. That is common sense. Occupy elections. Yang has the right idea. Not left. Not right. Forward! A party has a difficult way to proceed it seems to me. First give people a way to hope for change, a huge tent of people working together for common goals. Parties have too many differences to attract a mass movement. We need broad goals to get people involved and hoping for change.
Shut up, commie.
Let’s all kill commies.
All leftists are commies.
This thread has become pretty well trashed.
But, Richard, it works both ways.
Things that you would like publicized and discussed-like Drutman- get lost in the trash.
Just as much as Bowers and PLAS.
Maybe I can clean up some clutter.
Rob, “He supports locking up people who refuse to take the jab. That is segregation.
No it isn’t. And it is lock down, not lock up!
And you forgot force jab of J&J one shot on vax resistors.
Hot Kareem, yes.
But I do not have first hand proof of his size. It is what I have heard.
But I am far more interested in his possible jewishness and surveillance cameras.
Whether they go to Tel Aviv.
Rich Stevenson, Welcome! Election reform needs all the help it can get!
But can you do something about your first name?
It is a lock up and segregation, you fucking retard. You support forcing people to get experimental drugs pumped into them. Please go back to the mental hospital and seek help. You are worse than Demo Rep.